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Getting CO2 into 120 gallon

12K views 29 replies 10 participants last post by  houseofcards 
#1 ·
I tried adding pressurized CO2 about 4 weeks ago. I tried reading every thread I could find that talked about getting CO2 dissolved in a planted tank so I know I need a reactor because the tank is too big for a diffuser. (It is a 120 gallon) I liked how the Mix Max was pre made and ready to install so I went that route. I tried using a large Mix Max on the return of my Sunsun 304B, which also has an inline heater before the reactor. If you are familiar with the Sunsun you know it uses 3/4" tubing, so I had to reduce the tubing to 5/8" to use the heater. I had been doing this for about 2 years and hadn't noticed any problems. I know it reduced the flow some. Now I had to reduce it again for the Mix Max to 1/2" tubing. All seemed fine, I could get my drop checker yellow no problem if I wanted, (no fish in it yet) Until a few days ago, my Sunsun started acting up. I won't go into detail here, I have written about it in my journal. However I will say I spent all day yesterday trying to shorten the lines and change it around various ways to see if it would help. With the reactor added the Sunsun would shut down within a couple minutes. With just the heater it would run for a while before shutting off.
So now I can't help but wonder if back pressure from too much equipment / too many reductions caused my Sunsun problems. If so I don't want to repeat the problem with a new filter.
So now I need to figure out how to get my CO2 into my tank. Make a new reactor going by either Rex Grigg or Tom Barr's design, I am having a hard time finding one with step by step instructions so I understand it. A lot of people on here really know their technical stuff. I am not one of them. Another idea is run the reactor with a Rio Plus 800 PT Venturi Water Pump. I got the idea from a google search that led me to Tom Barr's forum but I can't find the post again! Plus I don't want another piece of equipment in the tank. I would appreciate some help with setting this up or maybe just understanding it a little better. I have been trying to read what I could find and the mention of degassing is where I have the most questions.
 
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#2 ·
I think your sunsun is on its way out, I doubt the reactor had anything to do with it, saw your reactor vid and it looked like it was running fine.
Unless their was an air bubble that made its way to the impeller and ran dry for a while? Even then it should still work in theory with the magnetic motor.
one of the reasons I run two cans in larger tanks, failures will happen with equipment it's almost inevitable.
FYI,I ran my reactor and inline heater for years with my proII with no issues, I still have the reactor installed but haven't had co2 on in a while as I'll be redoing my tank soon.
 
#3 ·
My 125g (72") has a sump and I was told by GLA that using their Atomic diffuser in my sump return section is ideal for distributing CO2 within the display tank. The return from the sump is divided into 4 loc-line nozzles distributed across the tank. So perhaps consider a sump.
 
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#4 ·
I tried adding pressurized CO2 about 4 weeks ago. I tried reading every thread I could find that talked about getting CO2 dissolved in a planted tank so I know I need a reactor because the tank is too big for a diffuser. (It is a 120 gallon)
That's a myth that a tank that size is too big for a simple diffuser whether it be inline or just a ceramic disc in the tank. You just need it placed either below the return or on the opposite side depending on flow.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I am only going by the majority of advice I found that was given to others when they were asking for best CO2 diffusing into large tanks.
Yesterday I tried feeding the CO2 tube into my Aquaclear and the CO2 was cranked up pretty high but it didn't seem to be enough since the ph controller was only getting .1 degree drop even after a few hours. Not that I am comparing it to a diffuser but it helped me see how much better my Mix Max had been dissolving the CO2 into the tank. I kept the CO2 at about 3 bps but at one point when I ran it uncountable I could get the drop checker on the opposite side of the tank yellow in an hour after lights on. I was playing around with it / experimenting since I don't have fish in there yet I want to get it all figured out now.

I would guess your filter is about to die. You could replace it and leave things how they are and see what happens.

You could also branch your return line. So you have a 3 way splitter that does 3/4" IN to 3/4" OUT and 1/2" OUT. The 3/4" will then just be a tube to the next splitter that joins everything back together. Then the 1/2" will go to the reactor and then back to 2nd splitter that will join everything back together. Then you will have 3/4" out into the tank. That way you have 3/4" all the way through and just a small branch off off for the reactor.

I say 1/2" for the ISTA Max mix because input on them is only 1/2" and I don't like using the 3/4" adapters as it just adds more failure points. I like putting the tube straight on the plastic pipes and using SS hose clamps lightly tightened down to hold things together.
I am leaning toward the Sunsun on it's way out as well. I have seen a lot of people with them failing much sooner.
Trying to wrap my head around your splitter idea. I am very visual so I'm trying to draw it but I am having a hard time telling if I am getting it down on paper right.

From personal experience, I would be wary of any plastic item hooked up in line. I had a small disaster when an in line diffuser literally broke apart at a seam. Quite a mess and could have been worse if I wasn’t there. I have no experience with Mix Max, but I won’t go with anything plastic again.

At some point I will probably build a co2 reactor with quality parts (Burr740 75 Gallon Journal has lots of good information). In the meantime, I simply fed the co2 directly into the input of one of my Rena Filters (XP4). I actually have three Rena’s on the tank, and keep that one filled with only bio balls and course pads to keep the flow higher. My co2 comes down quickly, and the only issue is when the course pads start to get clogged, I do get some “burps” from time to time. Maybe not the optimum recommended method, but works for me.

Like I said, at some point here I am going to build a real reactor, but in the meantime there is no rush. As a side note, with a larger tank like yours, personally I would highly recommend multiple filters. I might overdo it with three, but I clean one about every two or three weeks, and between the three there is always good flow. And I’m not concerned with disturbing the bio field in the filter when cleaning, as the other two could easily handle the tank themselves. Another plus is that if you ever have a failure, like you are experiencing now, it’s not an emergency. You can take some time to think it through, and can order parts or a new filter without having to rush.

Good luck and I hope you get it worked out.
Thanks I need the good luck. I haven't been having any with aquariums lately. ;) I am going to check out that journal. I had found a few old posts that were step by step but the pictures are missing from most of them. :(
I was thinking of a sump but it would take time and right now I need a quick fix so I am thinking maybe get another canister going while I figure the sump thing out. I had looked into it a bit before but put it on the back burner since the tank was going well at the time.
So in the meantime if I ended up running 2 canisters should I put them so the intakes are centered and there is a return on each end? That is a set up I saw recommended somewhere and it seemed to make the most sense for flow reasons. However then won't I need to T the CO2 and have 2 reactors otherwise I would think one side wouldn't get much CO2. I was thinking of getting one of the smaller 370 gph Sunsuns for just the heater and CO2, ( I saw someone say the 403B has 5/8" tubing but I can't find confirmation of this anywhere) then keep the higher flow on the 526 gph but I don't know if that would not distribute enough CO2 since the lower flow would be running the CO2. Plus one side of the tank would have less flow. In the past the side of my tank with less flow would started getting Cyano Bacteria between the glass which I would liek to avoid if possible.

I would agree anytime you put something inline your increasing your odds of something happening. People tend to over thing these things. All you really need is an appropriate size ceramic diffuser in the tank, but like many things there are several ways you can go.
Thanks, I am trying really hard not to overthink it but when stuff goes wrong I like to know why so I can try to avoid it from happening again! I am in general very indecisive so telling me I have options will make me think more. I like having it in my head that a diffuser isn't going to work because it helps me narrow things down.

Thanks all, I still would like to understand the degassing issue. I can't help but wonder if I have some other problems going on here aside form the Sunsun going. I have a Reg with preset pressure and it is always between 70 and 60 psi. When the valve is slightly past off it will run 3 bps to get it down to 1 bps you have to practically have it off.
 
#5 ·
I would guess your filter is about to die. You could replace it and leave things how they are and see what happens.

You could also branch your return line. So you have a 3 way splitter that does 3/4" IN to 3/4" OUT and 1/2" OUT. The 3/4" will then just be a tube to the next splitter that joins everything back together. Then the 1/2" will go to the reactor and then back to 2nd splitter that will join everything back together. Then you will have 3/4" out into the tank. That way you have 3/4" all the way through and just a small branch off off for the reactor.

I say 1/2" for the ISTA Max mix because input on them is only 1/2" and I don't like using the 3/4" adapters as it just adds more failure points. I like putting the tube straight on the plastic pipes and using SS hose clamps lightly tightened down to hold things together.
 
#6 ·
From personal experience, I would be wary of any plastic item hooked up in line. I had a small disaster when an in line diffuser literally broke apart at a seam. Quite a mess and could have been worse if I wasn’t there. I have no experience with Mix Max, but I won’t go with anything plastic again.

At some point I will probably build a co2 reactor with quality parts (Burr740 75 Gallon Journal has lots of good information). In the meantime, I simply fed the co2 directly into the input of one of my Rena Filters (XP4). I actually have three Rena’s on the tank, and keep that one filled with only bio balls and course pads to keep the flow higher. My co2 comes down quickly, and the only issue is when the course pads start to get clogged, I do get some “burps” from time to time. Maybe not the optimum recommended method, but works for me.

Like I said, at some point here I am going to build a real reactor, but in the meantime there is no rush. As a side note, with a larger tank like yours, personally I would highly recommend multiple filters. I might overdo it with three, but I clean one about every two or three weeks, and between the three there is always good flow. And I’m not concerned with disturbing the bio field in the filter when cleaning, as the other two could easily handle the tank themselves. Another plus is that if you ever have a failure, like you are experiencing now, it’s not an emergency. You can take some time to think it through, and can order parts or a new filter without having to rush.

Good luck and I hope you get it worked out.
 
#10 ·
Have a 110G and tried em all.

Have ended up with the same setup for my 110G and my 30G.

Used a unit similar to the Mix Max, another make but same principle. Only tried it for my smaller tank but found it somewhat noisy and to flow constricting.

Tried those spiral thingys and inline atomizer. Spiral thingys was useless for my 110G and waster loads of CO2. Same thing with the inline atomizer plus the entire tank was just a micro bubble mess.

So I have ended up with Aqua Medic CO2 reactors and before that an inline diffusor (not atomizer). Works really well for both my tanks.
 
#14 ·
If your canister filter can cope with co2 bubbles without extensive burping, that is a great way to do it. Unfortunately SunSuns cant, at least in my experience.

I ran a Sera Flore 500 reactor inline with a SunSun 304B on a 75 gallon tank with pretty good results. Similar design to the Mix Max. The 1000 model would've been better since it is bigger. But the 500 was a real workhorse, so I think the basic design is solid.

The Sera also had a smaller size hose connection, so I used the smaller size hose on the filter's outflow. (heated one end of the hose in boiling water, then work it onto the filter connection) This did cut the flow down a lot.

Most canisters are "rated" without any media inside. The general rule of thumb is you can safely count on half the GPH of whatever a filter is rated at. Hydor Pro series are the only ones to my knowledge that are rated using media. What it says is what you get, in actual gph.

The 304B is rated at 526 gph. Mine ran about 270-300 gph using very lean media. With the smaller hose and the reactor connected, it ran about 120. :icon_eek: To compensate I used additional circulation pumps, and later on a second canister

Back to the original question, it sounds like the SunSun filter is crapping out on you. Restricting the flow on the out going line shouldnt have any negative effects.

If you decide to replace it, you may want to go with the slightly more expensive Aquatop version. My understanding it's like the difference between a name brand TV from Wal-mart compared to the same model from an electronics supplier. The Wal-mart versions are cheaper because they use cheaper internal parts.

Dont worry about off gassing CO2. Surface agitation is good for a number of reasons. Better to increase the rate of CO2 injection than to limit surface movement. And the more internal circulation you have, the better CO2 is going to dissolve. So flow and surface agitation = GOOD.

Ive never tried using just a diffuser on larger tanks, but I do trust the people here saying that say it works. :)
 
#18 ·
The 304B is rated at 526 gph. Mine ran about 270-300 gph using very lean media. With the smaller hose and the reactor connected, it ran about 120. :icon_eek: To compensate I used additional circulation pumps, and later on a second canister
I tried to measure the flow with the reactor and I got in the 200s. I wrote it down some where but don't have it in front of me. I had measured it back when I first got it and I am pretty sure it was up in the 300s.. I say tried to measure the flow because I was holding the 5 gallon bucket while it was filling and I am only 5' tall so it was rough trying to keep it the same height as my tank rim which is up to my chin
:laugh2:

I could tell just by looking there was a huge difference in flow when I took the reactor off...

Sorry I have no idea why that weird emoji is at the top!? I can't get rid of it...
 
#15 ·
You just need a larger size diffuser placed under the return of a canister filter that is working correctly or use powerhead. I had this one on several 4 foot tanks myself and my plants pearled like they were going to explode.



You could buy them on amazon, ebay for around $20. The Rhinox also comes in smaller versions. The 5000 is the larger one.

Not saying you can't go with a reactor as well, but I'm just saying that either will do the job.
 
#19 ·
You will probably appreciate having a built in UV with Discus. People dont give SunSun UV much credit but I really liked mine. Of course having the flow cut way down made it more efficient by increasing exposure time. The skimmer is also a great feature.

That is why when it came time to replace it I went with the Aquatop cf500UV. Same filter, most parts will interchange, etc. The only difference is, it is <supposedly> made with better internal parts.

Amazon has them for $145, so right at 2x the SunSun

https://www.amazon.com/Aquatop-CF500UV-5-Stage-Canister-Filter/dp/B004GIXCI4
 
#21 ·
@flutterbug......I've been following this thread because I'm setting up a 90 gallon tank and already fretting about how to diffuse CO2 and the tank is still empty!

Could you please get back to us and tell us what you think of that ceramic diffuser? I am planning to use my Eheim pro 350 to diffuse the CO2 but may switch to that setup later on. My only issue with that kind of diffuser is the look of all the bubbles floating around the tank.
 
#25 ·
I had mine set up from the day it arrived until 2 days ago. I don't know what happened, I forgot to even bother checking a drop checker with it. I had my ph controller running but it was right above the diffuser so it was probably shutting off too soon. Actually I know what happened now, I really didn't feel like moving my whole ph set up and co2 tank to the other side of the tank, and was procrastinating. It was hard to tell in such a short time. Yesterday my tank was finally cycled and I wanted to add the Discus back in, I hooked the reactor back up because having all that co2 going in the tank right where the Discus always hide made me nervous and having such limited experience with it doesn't help my confidence. I was running the reactor for a month so I feel more comfortable with it. I think it's good to have in case I find myself in a situation that I need it again.
 
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