24oz paintball tank vs. 5lb tank - The Planted Tank Forum

 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
gaga43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 206
24oz paintball tank vs. 5lb tank

I'm confused.... So I'm running a 130g tank thought 2 paintball tanks would be sufficient but I cranked the co2 to the proper levels of 30ppm and I burnt through one tank in a day.... So doing calculations.... 16oz is roughly 1lb... So a paintball tank is 2lb.... 2lb got burnt through in one day... Won't a 5lb tank only last 2 days??? Paintball tank was 800 psi.... Unless a 5lb tank is way more pressure then I don't understand and need some explanation TIA

130G tank, DIY paintball co2 injection, inline co2 reactor, Eheim 2217,fluval g6 Eheim pimp #437, 2x 54w 48" aquaticlife T5HO 3 300w heater, 3 bags play sand java fern, Microsorum pteropus 'narrow', Cryptocoryne wendtii 'tropica', Anubias barteri (nana,) Hygrophila difformis (wisteria), Sagittaria platyphylla, Rotala indica (Rotala roundifolia), Amazon sword 3 bala shark, 3 clown loach, 8 ottos, Red tailed black shark, 3 swordtails, Malasian trumpet snails

The Fraternity of Dirt #181
gaga43 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 12:25 AM
Algae Grower
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 139
You probably have a leak somewhere.
mfranco likes this.
No.92 is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 12:26 AM
Algae Grower
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: TX
Posts: 43
Did you check your system for any leaks? I would assume that if you burnt through a who 24oz tank in a day then your system is leaking somewhere. For a tank that size I would absolutely recommend getting a 5 or 10lb CO2 tank. My tank is 120 gal, I cannot even tell how many BPS I am running because it is going so fast. My 5lb tank lasts about 3-4 weeks. I wish I would have got a bigger one...

Oh just thought of something, How are you getting the CO2 into your water? If you are running a basic glass diffuser then you will have a ton of wasted CO2 because the bubbles will reach the top before they can diffuse into the tank. I am running a cheap ISTA mix max inline reactor and for the price I am very happy with the results, it has drastically reduced the amount of CO2 I have to pump into the tank.

Oh and one last question, do you have your CO2 and lights on automatic timers. You don't need to run the CO2 at night so that will really help with your CO2 conservation.

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by No.92 View Post
You probably have a leak somewhere.
ha beat me to it lol

mfranco is offline  
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 01:04 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PlantedRich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pflugerville, Tx
Posts: 7,870
Using anything less than at least a 5 is really going to cost you. The price of gas is not in the gas itself but refilling it. Looking at the price of paintball on that size tank will eat your lunch! One thing that effects the price of refills is where you have it done. If you take it to a specialty shop like sports or brew shops they will rob you compared to taking it to a working man's place like a welders supply. The hitch is that paintball will only be filled at the high priced places. For that size tank, I use 20 pound tanks. It saves both on the time and effort of refilling but the price as well.

But I agree that you do likely have a leak!
patfat likes this.
PlantedRich is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 01:10 AM
Algae Grower
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 31
There is absolutely something not sealed within your system. A 10lb tank lasts me for a year or longer on a single aquarium.
jmach is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 02:49 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
patfat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: California
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmach View Post
There is absolutely something not sealed within your system. A 10lb tank lasts me for a year or longer on a single aquarium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by No.92 View Post
You probably have a leak somewhere.
before some of you jump on them...look at the OP they have a 130g tank...thats a big tank and your trying to push just two small 24oz paintball bottles system into it..of course its not going to last...like mfranco and plantedrich said a bigger co2 tank will help and last a lot longer..and definitely cheaper!! your going to be refilling so many tanks by the end of it you could have got a big bottle and saved money.. look around on craigslist for a big bottle...i got a 20# bottle pre filled for $70 which is a steal and its on my 40g which should last me i dont know pushing it a year.. plus you could run multiple hoses off that one reg for around the tank if you really wanted too!!
patfat is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 07:06 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
gaga43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 206
I am using an inline reactor.... Using the co2 from the 24oz tank unless I crank the valve open and burn the bottle out I can hardly even get my drop checker to change shades of blue.... No leaks.... Timer on my lights I don't have a proper regulator for the co2 so it runs 24/7... Dad was an instrument mechanic so I pieced together a makeshift regulator out of swagelok fittings

130G tank, DIY paintball co2 injection, inline co2 reactor, Eheim 2217,fluval g6 Eheim pimp #437, 2x 54w 48" aquaticlife T5HO 3 300w heater, 3 bags play sand java fern, Microsorum pteropus 'narrow', Cryptocoryne wendtii 'tropica', Anubias barteri (nana,) Hygrophila difformis (wisteria), Sagittaria platyphylla, Rotala indica (Rotala roundifolia), Amazon sword 3 bala shark, 3 clown loach, 8 ottos, Red tailed black shark, 3 swordtails, Malasian trumpet snails

The Fraternity of Dirt #181
gaga43 is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 11:17 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
patfat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: California
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaga43 View Post
I am using an inline reactor.... Using the co2 from the 24oz tank unless I crank the valve open and burn the bottle out I can hardly even get my drop checker to change shades of blue.... No leaks.... Timer on my lights I don't have a proper regulator for the co2 so it runs 24/7... Dad was an instrument mechanic so I pieced together a makeshift regulator out of swagelok fittings
Do you have air stones in the tank?? I mean I get it, it's still a big tank but throwing that much co2 in a tank 24/7 your fish still need some time to relax and breath..besides that plants aren't using the co2 at night when the lights are off they need a break too..so sorry to say but your just wasting co2..well of course you got a big tank the changing of the color on drop checker won't change that easily..there's lots of room and co2 from one side to the other can be sucked in by plants get lost at surface or it's just not enough to change the color...like said before you need a bigger co2 bottle..need a regulator that can turn on and off when lights are off and on..also with a regulator you can put a splitter and have it going to the inline diffusers..you have multiple correct (which I am thinking) because if your cranking it up that much the pressure would pop your lines off of check valves or other things..sorry to be a debby downer but your need to do a little overhaul on your set up because 24oz tanks aren't going to last for what your trying to do and having at least a proper regulator will help with not wasting and letting you properly have an off and on for giving your tank to settle at night
patfat is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 02:50 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PlantedRich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pflugerville, Tx
Posts: 7,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaga43 View Post
I am using an inline reactor.... Using the co2 from the 24oz tank unless I crank the valve open and burn the bottle out I can hardly even get my drop checker to change shades of blue.... No leaks.... Timer on my lights I don't have a proper regulator for the co2 so it runs 24/7... Dad was an instrument mechanic so I pieced together a makeshift regulator out of swagelok fittings
I know where you are and can feel the pain. Many/most of us suffer from the same problem with different details. Nobody in the right mind wants to waste money on equipment that they may not need. Except those who have not learned from life!
So the bottom line may be that you will have to make a decision about how to move forward and it can get to be a tough decision.
Continue to use what you have and you will be spending lots of money, time and effort. This may make you change and spend more money or perhaps give it up as too much money, time and effort.
The alternate is to shop very carefully and make the decision to spend more now rather than later.
Heard the line, "throwing good money after bad."? This may be where you are currently.
I recommend a larger tank and a solenoid. But then I am not in charge of your wallet! My opinion is worth about what it costs to get it.
PlantedRich is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
gaga43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 206
I realize I need a proper regulator... They are just so damn expensive.... I had purchased one off eBay but it crapped out and I sent it back (leaked like a stuck pig) I was just wondering the difference between a 24 oz tank and a 5lb tank... Old man tried telling me it isn't gonna last very long either
Quote:
Originally Posted by patfat View Post
Do you have air stones in the tank?? I mean I get it, it's still a big tank but throwing that much co2 in a tank 24/7 your fish still need some time to relax and breath..besides that plants aren't using the co2 at night when the lights are off they need a break too..so sorry to say but your just wasting co2..well of course you got a big tank the changing of the color on drop checker won't change that easily..there's lots of room and co2 from one side to the other can be sucked in by plants get lost at surface or it's just not enough to change the color...like said before you need a bigger co2 bottle..need a regulator that can turn on and off when lights are off and on..also with a regulator you can put a splitter and have it going to the inline diffusers..you have multiple correct (which I am thinking) because if your cranking it up that much the pressure would pop your lines off of check valves or other things..sorry to be a debby downer but your need to do a little overhaul on your set up because 24oz tanks aren't going to last for what your trying to do and having at least a proper regulator will help with not wasting and letting you properly have an off and on for giving your tank to settle at night
Yes I have an air stone at one end of the tank.... No I am not splitting the load of the co2... It all goes into my online reactor and into the tank, I also have massive circulation... 2 800gph circ pumps one smaller and 2 canister filter.... So dispersing the co2 around the tank isn't an issue... Long story short need a regulator with a solenoid timed in with the lights and a 10lb bottle...

130G tank, DIY paintball co2 injection, inline co2 reactor, Eheim 2217,fluval g6 Eheim pimp #437, 2x 54w 48" aquaticlife T5HO 3 300w heater, 3 bags play sand java fern, Microsorum pteropus 'narrow', Cryptocoryne wendtii 'tropica', Anubias barteri (nana,) Hygrophila difformis (wisteria), Sagittaria platyphylla, Rotala indica (Rotala roundifolia), Amazon sword 3 bala shark, 3 clown loach, 8 ottos, Red tailed black shark, 3 swordtails, Malasian trumpet snails

The Fraternity of Dirt #181
gaga43 is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 05:32 PM
Algae Grower
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: TX
Posts: 43
I have another question about your drop checker. What kind of solution are you using for your drop checker. Are you using tank water or 4dKH solution?

I ask because is you are not using 4dKH then it will not be accurate. I had a drop checker and I would gas my tank like crazy and I never could get it lime green but thats because I wasn't using 4dKH solution. I was running so many BPS that I could not even remotely count them into an inline reactor and my drop checker would barely turn from blue to dark/medium green.

After days of frustration ....and some hypoxic fish.... I started basing my CO2 injection on changes in pH before and after the addition of CO2.

Example:

My tank water pH without CO2 (degassed) is ~8.1
My tank water pH after adding CO2 (gassed) is ~6.9
I estimate my CO2 to be 30-50ppm

Since I have been doing it this way my plants are exploding, have constant pearling, and my fish don't seem stressed.

mfranco is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 05:50 PM
Algae Grower
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: TX
Posts: 43
In terms of regulators this is what I am running and I am super happy with it.
http://www.amazon.com/Premium-AQUATEK-Regulator-Integrated-Solenoid/dp/B009WTXYN0 http://www.amazon.com/Premium-AQUATEK-Regulator-Integrated-Solenoid/dp/B009WTXYN0

It was like $90 and it has a solenoid and I get good CO2 control. With a tank that big you wont need super fine CO2 control because the difference of 1-2 BPS is really insignificant in a tank that big.

It doesn't work with paintball tanks so you would have to factor in buying the 5,10, or 20# tank as well.

I run both my lights and gas on timers. They both run for 10 hours (may be too long of a photoperiod for your tank at first). I have two timers (cheap analog) and my CO2 comes on an hour before the photoperiod and turns off an hour before. By setting up the timers this way you build up the CO2 to your desired level before the lights come on so that as soon as they kick on you are at peak CO2 and then at the end there is time for the lights to use up the remaining CO2 and you dont run the risk of gassing your fish at night.

How heavily planted is your tank? If it is heavily planted and healthy the O2 that the plants generate should be more than enough to keep your fish happy. This will allow you to eliminate your air stone that will only further degas your tank of CO2. If you are seeing "pearling" that means your water O2 concentrations are at their maximum limit. The "pearling" happens when your tank can no longer absorb any more O2 so it bubbles off.

mfranco is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 06:13 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PlantedRich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pflugerville, Tx
Posts: 7,870
There are alternate ways to deal with much of what we do. Rather than go to another whole set up, I like to think of the reg as a simple part to start. It only has to reduce the pressure to lower levels that we can use better. If you have a reg to do that, perhaps looking at adding the other parts to that reg is all that is needed. With a fair amount of study and shopping, many times the work can be reasonably simple. Screwing some fittings together in range? Add an adapter like a fitting into the reg with a barb to fit tubing to? Then add the solenoid onto the tubing.
I think of the reg, then the electronic "gate" (solenoid) and then tubing going to a needle valve to fine tune the flow before passing it on to the diffuser or reactor.
In this way, you can add the quality needed where it gives the most value. The reg itself is often not a problem while the cheaper solenoids and needle valves are a constant headache for many.
This works for me:
PlantedRich is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 07:41 PM
Algae Grower
 
KingKoopa512's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 47
Its leaking somewhere. That size of tank needs a 10lb or 5lb

Sent from my LG-H634 using Tapatalk
KingKoopa512 is online now  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 08:17 PM
Algae Grower
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 139
So while I know people here will explain the virtues of spending more on a high quality regulator, I just couldn't justify it after pouring so much into setting up my 125G tank so I did go cheap a bit. What I ended up doing was spending on an all-in-one regulator/solenoid/needle valve and after about 2 weeks of use, it has been working perfectly fine. I bought the following items from Amazon for my setup:

Bubble counter ($18):
Amazon.com : CO2 Bubble Counter & CHECK VALVE -aquarium Brass Regulator DIFFUSER Solenoid reactor plants tank : Pet Supplies Amazon.com : CO2 Bubble Counter & CHECK VALVE -aquarium Brass Regulator DIFFUSER Solenoid reactor plants tank : Pet Supplies

CO2 Reactor ($21):
Amazon.com : External CO2 Ceramic Reactor Diffuser 16/22mm for Aquarium Plants Spiral : Pet Supplies Amazon.com : External CO2 Ceramic Reactor Diffuser 16/22mm for Aquarium Plants Spiral : Pet Supplies

20lb tank ($115):
Amazon.com: 20 lb CO2 Tank - New Aluminum Cylinder with CGA320 Valve: Kitchen & Dining Amazon.com: 20 lb CO2 Tank - New Aluminum Cylinder with CGA320 Valve: Kitchen & Dining

CO2 Regulator/Solenoid/Needle Valve ($95):
Amazon.com : U.P. Aqua Co2 Regulator for Aquarium : Aquarium Air Pumps : Pet Supplies Amazon.com : U.P. Aqua Co2 Regulator for Aquarium : Aquarium Air Pumps : Pet Supplies

For the CO2 Regulator, I would ignore the reviews as the two 1 star reviews were of faulty units. Like I said, I've had mine so far and it's been working great. The needle valve moves a bit but I can live with it. The CO2 Regulator is a single stage regulator so you'll have to watch for your CO2 tank being empty and refill at that point so you don't get the End of Tank Dump. You'll know when the tank is empty of liquid CO2 when the tank pressure drops below 1000 PSI and continues to drop. This happens over a several week period so you have time to notice it before the EOTD.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by No.92; 06-07-2016 at 08:23 PM. Reason: Grammar
No.92 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome