Will RCS or CRS thrive in my tank? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-17-2014, 12:38 AM Thread Starter
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Will RCS or CRS thrive in my tank?

New wannabe shrimp keeper here. I started a new 3.5 gallon mini planted nano and would like to keep RCS or CRS-S grade or lower. My tank has been cycled for about two weeks now, keeping some Gertrude Rainbows, and feeder shrimps (I think they are a type of Neo's, not the normal ghost shrimps).

Here is my tank and parameters:


Water Parameters
NH3 - 0ppm
NO2 - 0ppm
NO3 - 5-10ppm
PO4 - 0 - 10ppm (I haven't calibrated the API test kit yet)
dKH - 4
dGH - 7
PH - 6.4
Temp - 68-73 degree Fahrenheit
Co2 - 18-25ppm
Ada Amazonia soil.

I dose EI regularly, and I do a 50% WC weekly with filtered tap water at 4dkh and 9dGH before adding Prime. I don't have a TDS meter yet so I don't have values for it. I also run an eheim 2213 and eventually will be using Purigen to clean up tanins.

With this setup, would I be able to successfully keep and breed RCS or CRS in this tank? I don't want to sacrifice my EI dosing or CO2, my thoughts were to initially go with RCS, then introduce CRS, since I heard they do not interbreed. Eventually, maybe taking out the RCS, and trying other shrimps if this tank is successful. I was think if my TDS ends up rising, I could do one of the water changes with RO or distilled water. Also, WC would be done slower since it does cause a rise in ph from 6.6 to about 7.2, due to lack of Co2 in the new water. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 01:59 AM
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RCS are very easy to keep. I had some in a 2 gallon evolve with soil capped with eco-complete as the substrate and high levels of CO2 (HC carpet like your tank) and they bred like crazy. Ended up having way more than 50 in a 2 gallon and started giving them away before finally selling my colony.

Nice tank btw.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 07:47 AM Thread Starter
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Ah, yeah, I like Red Cherry's cause I like reds, and it would be a nice contrast to the green HC. I also like the S grade Crystals, because that red and white banding is just awesome looking. The idea was to start with Cherry Reds, and if that survives well, throw in some crystal reds. I heard they can be kept together.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 01:27 PM
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Crystal Reds need low kH. The params for neos and crystals rarely overlap.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r45t4m4n View Post
Crystal Reds need low kH. The params for neos and crystals rarely overlap.
well now....that's a curveball. I see required parameters for Cherry reds to be in a broad range, while the crystal reds require a narrower range, inside the range for Cherry reds. This would mean that CRS can be kept together with RCS, as long as water parameters suit the CRS.

http://shrimpkeeping.com/water-params/
Cherry Shrimp PH: 6.4 7.6 KH: 0 10 GH: 4 14 TDS: 80 200 Water temp: 18 23
Crystal Red Shrimp/Red Bee PH: 6.2 6.6 KH: 0 2 GH: 4 6 TDS: 100 180 Water temp: 21 23

In your experience, have you not been able to keep them both together?
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 10:06 PM
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I kept cherry with my crs in crs water parameter. Still breed.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quark View Post
well now....that's a curveball. I see required parameters for Cherry reds to be in a broad range, while the crystal reds require a narrower range, inside the range for Cherry reds. This would mean that CRS can be kept together with RCS, as long as water parameters suit the CRS.

http://shrimpkeeping.com/water-params/
Cherry Shrimp PH: 6.4 7.6 KH: 0 10 GH: 4 14 TDS: 80 200 Water temp: 18 23
Crystal Red Shrimp/Red Bee PH: 6.2 6.6 KH: 0 2 GH: 4 6 TDS: 100 180 Water temp: 21 23

In your experience, have you not been able to keep them both together?
Your right, sorry, hadn't had my coffee yet for the day.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 05:07 AM
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My cherries were in a tank with a gh of 3 and a kh of 1 if I remember correctly. The well water at my last place was very soft and they didnt seem to care.

I am thinking of going with CRS in my newest tank that will be a similar set up to yours. I was speaking with someone locally and they said that CRS are a lot easier to keep than many make it seem. He has some SS-SSS in a tank with Seiryu and says he doesn't remineralize the water and just uses straight RODI. I have an RODI for my reef so I'm probably going to do the same.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 05:46 AM
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My tanks are all 0kh, 5 gh, ph 6.5ish and I breed crystals, TBs, and neos no problem. For your water, cherries will be fine. Crystals might be ok but I would not personally recommend it. I think that if you get your hands some RO water and a remineralizer you'd have a lot more luck with Crystals.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-23-2014, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Puddles View Post
My tanks are all 0kh, 5 gh, ph 6.5ish and I breed crystals, TBs, and neos no problem. For your water, cherries will be fine. Crystals might be ok but I would not personally recommend it. I think that if you get your hands some RO water and a remineralizer you'd have a lot more luck with Crystals.
hmm...0kh would be pretty rough in my tank with injected Co2. At the rate I am putting in, with 0kh, and assuming RO water with remineralizer for Shrimp, my PH will end up being in the 5 to sub 5's. At least that's what I assume so with my limited chemistry knowledge.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-23-2014, 11:37 AM
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You can keep them together but be aware that RCS may outcompete CRS in breeding and food. Also a 50% water change is asking for trouble. I would not change out more than 10% weekly with only shrimp in a planted tank. The plants will use up almost all the bad stuff and a larger water change could stress out your shrimp.

20g L46/hastatus/pygmy corys, 10g OEBTs, 10g blue bees/blue velvet shrimp, 10g CRS, 25g L174s/BNs/L340s, 10g yellow/red tiger shrimp, 15g clown plecos/CPDs/habrosus corys, 15g cory fry, 29g Weitzmani/panda corys/BNs, 46g L134s/salt and pepper corys/BNs/rubberlip pleco, 55g SAE/L201s/L199s/BNs/kissing gourami, 75g L316s/BNs/L134s/CAE/silver dollar, 30g L340s/L211s/CPDs,10g tangerine tiger/snowball shrimp, 20g L134/habrosus corys, 10g CPD fry
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-23-2014, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garfieldnfish View Post
You can keep them together but be aware that RCS may outcompete CRS in breeding and food. Also a 50% water change is asking for trouble. I would not change out more than 10% weekly with only shrimp in a planted tank. The plants will use up almost all the bad stuff and a larger water change could stress out your shrimp.
Thanks for the heads up on RCS outcompeting the CRS. I'm not sure I can do a 10% water change with my current tank.

to elaborate a bit on EI fert dosing is, it's a method of dosing NPK+macro nutrients fairly heavily so that there is no chance of a nutrient deficiency. This method has a chance of a nutrient build up, so a 50% W/C is highly recommended to "reset" the nutrients back to lower levels.

I guess my original post was a loaded question, it seems it isn't an ideal setup, and there are better parameters to adhere to. I think now, I don't doubt that RCS will thrive, I heard they are like roaches. More concerned now with CRS and others like it. I haven't seen very much cross over on folks wanting to maintain high tech planted tanks with CRS.

There must be someone out there who's tried, or has done it. Anyone?
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-18-2014, 02:37 AM
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Quark, Did you ever try CRS in a high tech? Did you use remineralized water? How did it go?
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry, never tried. Haven't found a way to get them yet. However, my feeder shrimps have been doing well in my tank, I started with about 10, breed like 3 times. All deaths have been due to jumping. I dunno if its much of an indication, cause these are the generics and usually extremely hardy, probably more closely related to cherry reds. The do alright as a cleaning crew, but I think could be better.
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