7.5g Yellow Neo troubles (Part Two) - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-04-2013, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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7.5g Yellow Neo troubles (Part Two)

Need help again trying to understand what is going on in this tank before any one dies.

In the last thread I did about this tank, I had Yellow Neos dying, low PH, low GH, and unstable tap water. After advice, I went with 100% RO water using Salty Shrimp GH/KH, and did daily 10% water changes until the tank got to this:

PH 7.2-7.4
GH 7
KH 3
TDS 181

Went back to weekly water changes and two weeks later, having problems again. I am doing water changes today and did some testing on the tanks.

The 7.5g is now:

PH 7
GH 5
KH 2
TDS 185

RO water with Salty Shrimp (water change):

PH 7.6
GH 7
KH 4
TDS 195

What could cause a drop in PH, GH, and KH?

Substrate is Eco Complete. I have one cholla wood in the tank and was about to put in an IAL. I do have moss that has gone completely brown on my driftwood. Could this cause that to happen?

I want this tank to match the remineralized RO and it doesn't seem like I can. Before the fix, 4 Yellow Neos died, many pond snails and lost 20 of my blue ramshorns.

18g (Red Cherry Neo Shrimp | Malawa Shrimp)
7.5g (Yellow Neo Shrimp)
3.2g (Pumpkin Neo Shrimp)
2g (Snails)
11.4g (new home soon for the Pumpkin Neos)
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-04-2013, 06:16 PM
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I have had issues with eco complete in the past I chose not to use it. IO like inert substrates like black diamond blasting sand or Pool filter sand. I let these and have great luck with them. So much luck I will be pulling all my Amazonia and DRL Akadama tanks down and when I move just use inert. As I am luck my tap where I live is 7.1 Gh2 KH1 TDS 30 So I remineralize to a TDS of 200 and I get same PH GH of 6 KH of 1-2. Then my ro from this water is 5.7-6.2 depending on the time of year.

I would be using salty shrimp GH+ for bee shrimps. It is a cleaner nicer product and will not move KH....

Do you let your water sit over night before doing the changes or run a air stone in it to see if it changes any?

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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-04-2013, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Why would I need RO to sit out? It has PH of 6.4 and after using airstone for 24 hours, PH goes to 6.6. I don't use airstone anymore. Just remineralized RO.

18g (Red Cherry Neo Shrimp | Malawa Shrimp)
7.5g (Yellow Neo Shrimp)
3.2g (Pumpkin Neo Shrimp)
2g (Snails)
11.4g (new home soon for the Pumpkin Neos)
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-04-2013, 07:12 PM
Obsessed? Maybe
 
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Eco-Complete (it's neither economical nor complete) is just bad for shrimp. More often than not, people end up ditching it.

I've only ever had success with it when using it in planted tanks without a focus on shrimp.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-04-2013, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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So you are saying it's the Eco Complete? Not the brown moss?

Months before setting up tanks, I never heard any complaints about shrimp on this substrate and now I do. I got Eco Complete in the other two tanks.

These tanks have been up and running only months.

18g (Red Cherry Neo Shrimp | Malawa Shrimp)
7.5g (Yellow Neo Shrimp)
3.2g (Pumpkin Neo Shrimp)
2g (Snails)
11.4g (new home soon for the Pumpkin Neos)
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-04-2013, 09:29 PM
Obsessed? Maybe
 
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Since there's nothing really scientific you can do and you haven't isolated any one thing, it could be just about anything.

But Eco-Complete is not always reliable. If you search this forum and others, you'll see problems with bad batches a few years ago. And bad batches recently. Beyond bad batches, it's possible the EC absorbs things that aren't great for shrimp and slowly releases them.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-04-2013, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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I been reading more on Eco Complete and it looks like it can have problems. Doing more reading on this.

The Plan:

I am ordering new plants and moss for this tank. I am removing the driftwood with the dead moss. Do daily 10% water changes to bring up parameters. I'll see how things go.

If it happens again, it will have to be the substrate. I will have to figure out what to do.

18g (Red Cherry Neo Shrimp | Malawa Shrimp)
7.5g (Yellow Neo Shrimp)
3.2g (Pumpkin Neo Shrimp)
2g (Snails)
11.4g (new home soon for the Pumpkin Neos)
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-04-2013, 10:02 PM
Obsessed? Maybe
 
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Sounds like this is only going to help further your case of Multiple Tank Syndrome.

If that doesn't work, you can just start up another tank!
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-04-2013, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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LOL! I been saving up, reading, figuring out what I want to do and can afford in keeping shrimp. I love most of the Neos.

If this tank is not working, I'll start another one or some how fix this one.

I'll never buy Eco Complete again for shrimp.

18g (Red Cherry Neo Shrimp | Malawa Shrimp)
7.5g (Yellow Neo Shrimp)
3.2g (Pumpkin Neo Shrimp)
2g (Snails)
11.4g (new home soon for the Pumpkin Neos)
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-05-2013, 01:28 AM
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There is something wrong with your RO unit if it has a kh of 4 after being remineralized with Salty Shrimp. It should have KH of 0.
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-05-2013, 01:40 AM Thread Starter
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I am using RO water from Walmart and Salty Shrimp GH/KH.

18g (Red Cherry Neo Shrimp | Malawa Shrimp)
7.5g (Yellow Neo Shrimp)
3.2g (Pumpkin Neo Shrimp)
2g (Snails)
11.4g (new home soon for the Pumpkin Neos)
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-05-2013, 04:39 AM
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Yeah definitely something wrong. Are you using RO/distilled, or possibly using mineral water? RO has a TDS level of 0, which means it is pure water -- no tds, no gh, no kh, nothing. The salty shrimp will increase TDS and gh but not kh. check your water parameters when you get it from the store.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-05-2013, 11:09 AM
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He is using the salty gh/kh, not the the salty bee shrimp gh+. It is supposed to raise the kh, not sure at what ratio of gh to kh, but I do not think it is a ro problem.

Last edited by Forumsnow; 07-05-2013 at 11:11 AM. Reason: Added
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-05-2013, 12:10 PM
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Hi,

as Forumsnow said, there are different salts from Salty Shrimps available, and as the same lets one guess, Shrimp Mineral GH/KH+ raises the GH as well as the KH level. Here´s an overview of the different salts.
I´m kind of surprised that Salty Shrimp is available in the USA ^^
For Neocaridinas a measurable KH is benefivial for the shrimp´s health and a stable pH. So it´s better to use this salt instead of the Bee Shrimp Minerals GH+, GreenBliss was totally right with her choice.

To the problem: I think sbarbee54 and somewhatshocked are right and the problem is the soil you are using. As long as you do daily water changes the mineralised fresh water and the mineral adsorbing influence of the soil are balancing each other. But with weekly water changes the Eco Complety takes the lead.

It will not be that much work to exchange the substrate and fill in an inert.

Good luck with that and I hope this will end your problems with the yellow Neos

We are not evil, because we do evil things. We do evil things, because we are evil!
greets Paddy

(I´m sorry for my poor English, as you can see, I´m not a native speaker)
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-05-2013, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Got me thinking, NebelGeîst.

Dabating on waiting and doing my plan or getting rid of Eco Complete and putting in new substrate. Don't have money at the moment to set up new tank and do a switch.

Has anyone removed substrate from shrimp tank and put new in? Will it cause a cycle problem? Substrate opinions?

I was thinking it wont be too hard to change substrate. I have 5 Yellow Neos, 2 Mysteries, some MTS, and pond snails. The new plants wont be here until next Thursday or Friday.

18g (Red Cherry Neo Shrimp | Malawa Shrimp)
7.5g (Yellow Neo Shrimp)
3.2g (Pumpkin Neo Shrimp)
2g (Snails)
11.4g (new home soon for the Pumpkin Neos)
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