CBS dying from adding Anubias Nana? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2013, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Question CBS dying from adding Anubias Nana?

Added a big bunch of Anubias Nana Petite that was overgrowing in a community tank about a week ago. Since then I have been noticing random deaths. Most apparent was yesterday and today. Total 3 deaths in the last 24 hours, all adults. Most of the babies just disappeared. It was a striving community and all too. I took a good 15 minutes to observe the tank closely, no signs of a bacteria infection. All the Painted Fire Reds are still very active, very red and no sign of fatigue or dulling of the color, it's just the crystal blacks that are kind of "moving along". Very strange.

I have looked this up and have seen that there are some whom have experienced exactly the same. Apparently Anubias release some sort of toxin if broken apart from it's group and that could lead to shrimp deaths?

What should I do, perhaps a 20% W/C or should it be more?

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2013, 07:09 PM
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Any chance you could remove the Anubias and put it somewhere else? I've heard about that toxin thing too, so I've avoided anubias plants.

If I were you, I'd remove it and do a partial water change (20-30%)
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2013, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MsNemoShrimp View Post
Added a big bunch of Anubias Nana Petite that was overgrowing in a community tank about a week ago. Since then I have been noticing random deaths. Most apparent was yesterday and today. Total 3 deaths in the last 24 hours, all adults. Most of the babies just disappeared. It was a striving community and all too. I took a good 15 minutes to observe the tank closely, no signs of a bacteria infection. All the Painted Fire Reds are still very active, very red and no sign of fatigue or dulling of the color, it's just the crystal blacks that are kind of "moving along". Very strange.

I have looked this up and have seen that there are some whom have experienced exactly the same. Apparently Anubias release some sort of toxin if broken apart from it's group and that could lead to shrimp deaths?

What should I do, perhaps a 20% W/C or should it be more?
i have some anubias nana petite too that i will be putting it with shrimps, curious if it is the case of leaching toxins.

if this is the case perhaps is best to do a watch change, never hurts.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2013, 08:09 PM
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It is not toxins but something like microscopic blades going inside the fish and causing issues. I have plenty of anubias nana in my shrimp tank and i am also cutting it often and no issues even with corys and boraras fish

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2013, 10:23 PM
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It's pretty much a myth. The people who have reported similar have never been able to prove it. But it's usually involved heavy pruning and disturbing parts of the tank. Or introducing plants from another tank that could contain bacteria harmful to shrimp in some way.

I've done extreme, heavy pruning in tanks with Taiwan Bees and other sensitive shrimp with no issue. I mean - tiny tanks filled with Anubias and zillions of shrimp.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2013, 11:35 PM
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Whoops - forgot to finish my comment.

If you're experiencing random deaths, what are your water parameters and all that jazz?

Water changes would probably be a good idea.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2013, 11:44 PM
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Same here, I have anubias w no problem. Hope you find out solution.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2013, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input everyone. I have my other tanks with Anubias Nane Petite without a problem as well. I must say though, those had been there since I had been cycling and doing a lot of water changes.

Its true, if it can't be proven its more like a guess. So basically the chunk was broken off from a branch in a community tank. The community tank has no shrimps whatsoever, only fish. If I could recall as closely as possible, the plant was literally only rinsed for a good 4-5 seconds to get rid of some plant matters stuck to it under the faucet and that was it, since the community tank is healthy and the plant itself is healthy with no algae or bugs.

I tested the water and it's usual.

TDS 135ppm
Temp 75F (moderated by a thermostat so it sits around 75ish 24/7)
GH 4/5
KH 0
pH 6.0 (Aquasoil)
Ammonia/Nitrate/Nitrite - 0

I'll do a 25% W/C then. Added some IAL's too, hope it helps.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2013, 03:21 AM
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Since you pulled it from another tank and it was rinsed - even quickly - that would take care of anything if there were toxins.

Likely something else that's just spur of the moment. A momentary blip of ammonia, nitrite, a rare gas bubble from the substrate, something just random.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2013, 02:12 PM
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I usually quarantine plants that I'm going to put in my shrimp tanks with a cup or so of the current shrimp tank water before I put it in the shrimp tank itself.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2013, 04:46 PM
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Did the old tank ever have any potential sources of copper in it? Medicine or fertilisers? I had some RCS in my tank who were all great healthy and happy, I added a plant from a LFS and bam they started dropping like flies. I'm convinced the plant had been fertilised with a fertiliser that contained copper.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2013, 04:50 PM
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Did the old tank ever have any potential sources of copper in it? Medicine or fertilisers? I had some RCS in my tank who were all great healthy and happy, I added a plant from a LFS and bam they started dropping like flies. I'm convinced the plant had been fertilised with a fertiliser that contained copper.
Excuse me if I'm wrong, but doesn't CSM+B not have enough copper to kill inverts? You don't add too much to start with, and CSM+B only has .09% cu. I was under the assumption that copper was an essential trace element to inverts, plants, and animals, and it was just that higher amounts affected inverts much more than it did plants and other animals. Once again correct me if I'm wrong.


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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2013, 05:02 PM
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Excuse me if I'm wrong, but doesn't CSM+B not have enough copper to kill inverts? You don't add too much to start with, and CSM+B only has .09% cu. I was under the assumption that copper was an essential trace element to inverts, plants, and animals, and it was just that higher amounts affected inverts much more than it did plants and other animals. Once again correct me if I'm wrong.
Trace amounts are ok from what I understand, but can't different fertilizers contains different concentrations?

It seems the topic is debated on both sides as to whether fertilizers can be harmful to shrimp. I certainly am not experienced enough to join into a debate on the matter, I was simply offering it here as a potential issue that might have caused shrimp deaths based on my own experiences.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2013, 05:09 PM
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Anything in a strong enough concentration can be harmful to shrimp. When beginning with fertilizers in a shrimp tank, it's best to start slowly and gradually build up to the concentration you desire. That allows shrimp time to adjust.

Chelated copper in ferts doesn't harm shrimp. In fact, copper is an integral part of invertebrate diets. It's just in tiny concentrations.

It's the kind (and strength) of copper found in many medications and water treatments that cause problems.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2013, 06:38 PM
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That is good to know, thanks for the info I wish I knew what had caused the shrimp deaths in my tank after adding that one plant so I can avoid the same error in the future.
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