more thoughts(and pics) on breeding shrimp - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-07-2013, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
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more thoughts(and pics) on breeding shrimp

so, as some of you know, i have been setting up some odd breeding methods. i recently purchased some of soothingshrimps malawa shrimp so i can start with something closer to a wild type. while i was at it though, i found something that changes the way shrimp display genetics. more on that in a minute.

so, here are some pics of what i have in a tank i set up for multiplying my shrimp. its the same tank i set up with a log and some of my crazy algae. it is amazing for shrimp. anyway, on to some pics...

this pic shows a couple malawa shrimp, which look blueish in real life, and some cherry shrimp. as a result of a test i did, the cherry shrimp are of lower quality than what i started with, but they are now showing three distinct color morphs. one of which is the slightly brighter male in the upper right portion of the group in the first pic. there is a single small female that is quite a bit brighter, and i hope to put the two together and see if i can breed a new strain from them.


these are some pics to show the variety of colors displayed by the malawa shrimp. it also shows one of the three cherry shrimp morphs. the larger female cherry shrimp in the top pic has more of a wine color, hinting at purple. i took a close look and it has quite a bit of blue in it. the ones that aren't red are, of course, the malawas.







now, as for how i got my cherry shrimp to mutate....

i took a large number of them and put them in water that had an ever increasing amount of hydrogen sulfide. the immediate result was a fair number of deaths, with some survivors, which were able to reproduce. the survivors produced some shrimp that were completely clear, like ghost shrimp, and their offspring are what are in the photos. it worked because they were selectively bred by the harsh conditions. just about anytime you select for something, you will see a physical change, and it just so happened that the shrimp that were able to survive threw some genetics that produced some odd colors. i will probably do similar things with the malawa shrimp, among some other methods i have for mutating them.

one thing i may try, is exposing them to ever decreasing levels of dissolved oxygen. if i am right, this would cause them to concentrate more of their copper based blood in their bodies. it may be part of the reason why the one cherry shrimp has far more blue in it than i have seen in any of my cherry shrimp. its parents may have carried a mutation that would have otherwise gone completely unnoticed.

i really hope i can get some new lines out of the cherry shrimp. if so, it will help me in understanding how their colors are expressed through genetics.
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post #2 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-07-2013, 09:20 AM
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Wow! Wooooooooooooooow!

I always wanted to be a mad scientist's apprentice. :P

Keep up us posted about this!

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post #3 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-07-2013, 02:14 PM
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Crazy genetics... Hope you can get some Mutant shrimps that is super hardy that can survive super harsh conditions.
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post #4 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-07-2013, 02:29 PM
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more thoughts(and pics) on breeding shrimp

Interesting. I'll call you Darwin, I suppose lol. Causing natural die off and separation.

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post #5 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-07-2013, 05:14 PM
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Some very interesting ideas expressed. Will be following along.

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post #6 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-07-2013, 06:41 PM
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I believe PFR's have a dark layer of blue under their red and that's why the red comes out so nicely....I think that's what I heard from Mord.....
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post #7 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-07-2013, 08:09 PM
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That's also what makes the red dark as opposed to bright red.

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post #8 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 02:34 AM Thread Starter
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so if i do have shrimp that have the PFR genes in them, what i did may have amounted to separating the genes. i already knew i had two different qualities of shrimp, but what i hadnt seen before was a shrimp that looked primarily orange. hopefully i will have more to work with soon. just gotta get them to the right age...
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post #9 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
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in other news, i just went to a pet store where they had taiwan fire reds, "blue jelly bean shrimp" (blue rillis?) and super tigers all in the same tank. many many many of them were berried, and there were already a LOT of babies. i walked away with at least 50 babies for 50 bucks. i dont know what they are, but im sure i got a pretty good deal.

so far, looks like i got TFR and blue jelly beans.
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post #10 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 03:54 PM
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I've been into mutations and morphs quite a while now with shrimp and I have never heard of blue jelly beans. I'm wondering if they may be blueberries, under a different name. If they are, they don't breed true.

Do you have a pic of it, so the forum can help ID it?

hmmmmmmmm... I wonder if jelly neos are now being called jelly beans?

You can always call the LFS and ask the species, and see if they know what is on the list they bought from. Seems like a lot to go through, but if you are breeding, you definitely want to know what species you are working with. If they are blue rilis for instance, they will interbreed with your pfrs.

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post #11 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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i think they are just blue rili shrimp. if they dont breed true, thats fine with me. im mostly interested in genetics anyway, so i view it as one more thing to observe and collect data from. if i am right in my thinking, ill be counting the odds of the shrimp throwing a certain color morph in the 1/16-1/128 range, instead of the 1/4-1/8 type of results often found with more conventional critters.
anyway, i just tried to count them, i definitely have at least three types of shrimp, possibly four, and there are about 80 of them. they seem to be doing pretty good. not bad i think for 50 bucks, even though im not sure what i have, and probably have hybrid/mutts, its perfect for my studies.
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post #12 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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this is not my image, but the adult blue shrimp looked exactly like these:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1312905430
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post #13 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-09-2013, 01:55 AM
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it is a rili. i have had a few pop up like that out of my red rili. i have several pics of my groups of rili and all the colors if you want to see. search purple shrimp and you should find some of my pics
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post #14 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-09-2013, 02:41 AM
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Blue rili for sure.

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post #15 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 04:52 AM Thread Starter
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update:

so far so good with the malawas. i started selectively breeding the color types, and it seems they are quite ready to start polarizing. what i did was find the two darkest and breed them(you can see the ova in females if you look at them under a microscope) and the two bluest, and the two with the most white on them.

they are so far producing more or less after their phylogeny, so hopefully i will be able to get something interesting.
the blue shrimp are sometimes difficult to tell apart from the blue rili shrimp i got. the main difference is that they are darker(other colors mixed in) and many of them seem to have the beginnings of a white band on their backs.

that brings me to the white group. while none of them are actually white, just speckled, they DO seem to pass that trait on as well. whats interesting is that the white spots create two bands on the back, and in between the two bands there is a darker than normal region. i think with some decent breeding, they will start to look like an odd cross between a bumblebee and a tiger. white on the tail, colored body, two white stripes on the back with a strip of darker color in between. also dark stripes on the sides, but they are pretty thin.
im pretty excited about these guys.


the neos are just getting to the point where i am starting to see the traits produced, so still waiting on them. they did produce a couple odd green shrimp though.

i dont have any pics yet, but i hope to have some this weekend.
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