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post #16 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 02:41 AM
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Hehe you guys are funny. I wish there was a like button instead of me having to further derail the thread to tell you I appreciated your comment.
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post #17 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 03:42 AM
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Since temperature is the source of the problem, why not eliminate it in the first place. Keep tank cool by a chiller or blow fan onto the water surface.
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post #18 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 03:52 AM
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Re: How to prevent bacteria infection

Temps temps temps for tigers enough said

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post #19 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 05:00 AM
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Since temperature is the source of the problem, why not eliminate it in the first place. Keep tank cool by a chiller or blow fan onto the water surface.

Problem is it's not the only source It's ONE source. If it was that easy well...I wouldn't have lost a colony. I did everything by the book, params, prevention, treatment, temps...in the end I think I did TOO much and it wiped out the rest of the colony. Expensive mistake. I have Benibachi Shrimp Emergency in my arsenal now so we'll see how it goes.
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post #20 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 05:27 AM
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same thing happened to me raven. once one got it it was all done whole colony in a month. was fine for a full year and bam i did a water change and there it went. i normally dont do many water changes and after that i dont do them now lol. im about to give it a try again with tigers so going to try to keep them cooler
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post #21 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting,

So I am taking that water changes might increase the chances of an infection because one wouldn't know when the water would be contaminated or not? But what if 100 RO% is used everytime, shouldn't RO get rid of most, if not all, of those things?

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post #22 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 07:42 AM
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Depends on what species of bacteria/where they live.

Most need some sort of surface area to live on if not an actual host.

UV sterilizers and water changes can help prevent the spread of organisms that move through the water column to affect other hosts, but aren't going to SOLVE a problem if the organism is transmitted through physical contact with a surface or another infected animal.

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post #23 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 03:30 PM
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For what it is worth, I've often thought we are worsening the situation of shrimp strains being weak by providing too sterile of environments.

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post #24 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 03:47 PM
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Interesting,

So I am taking that water changes might increase the chances of an infection because one wouldn't know when the water would be contaminated or not? But what if 100 RO% is used everytime, shouldn't RO get rid of most, if not all, of those things?

My disastrous time with mine I was using a mix of tap water and RO. This time I use 100% RO water. I just feel it's safer than my tap.

The main thing I felt did wrong was I got OEBTs from 3 sources. The first ones I got had lived a couple of weeks so I felt confident. So I got another batch in. Those lived a week so I got another batch in. So, the first batch was ok. The second batch arrived, stressed from shipping (worst shrimp shipping I've seen, one had a broken tail and died in a few hours even, had lost 3-4 by the next morning), so they go into the tank with a weak immune system, become susceptible to bacteria. Then a week after that I got another batch in. So basically I start introducing new bacteria to the tank over and over again with each new bath of shrimp. What I started to realize was it took a few weeks before I actually SAW signs of bacterial infection....it wasn't cloudy bodies...it was missing antennae that were my first signs. Then the deaths started happening. So I started dosing stuff. I researched and researched and asked for help and did everything I could, 80% water changes, 3 weeks of Melafix, tried Paraguard one day with bad results so didn't use it anymore, and in a final desperate bid tried Maracyn 2 which was so strong it killed some neos, more OEBT, AND snails. In the end I crashed the tank doing too much. So, tore the whole thing down and started over.

Every time you introduce livestock, plants, rocks, anything, you introduce new bacteria into the environment. I just put some new shrimp in there this weekend and trust me, I'm biting my nails praying everybody makes it through unscathed.
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post #25 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Soothing Shrimp View Post
For what it is worth, I've often thought we are worsening the situation of shrimp strains being weak by providing too sterile of environments.
This most definitely can be a problem. If you keep the environment too sterile the shrimp can't build up any natural immunity. Danged if you do danged if you don't type of thing.
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post #26 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 05:17 PM
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I'm sure folks that have had bacterial infections run rampant just from warm temps would argue with you. Bacteria is present in all tanks, OEBTs have a very weak immune system from what I've researched which makes them more susceptible. So if the shrimp gets stressed from warmer temps they can become susceptible to bacteria they were strong against before. IAL, alder cones, catappa bark, some forms of cinnamon, and many others are natural preventatives.
true true on stress but the temp rising within the tank usually coincides with the summer months. Do a search on municipal drinking water treatment and seasonal bacteria counts. Published studies on reservoirs and distribution systems. After you quit puking and switch to bottled drinking water to rinse you're toothbrush you might not blame it all on the tank habitat and heat stress.
That's why 3yrs. ago building my RO system included a final stage of UV treatment on product water. Even wet stored prefilters can be bacteria colonies.

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post #27 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ravensgate View Post
My disastrous time with mine I was using a mix of tap water and RO. This time I use 100% RO water. I just feel it's safer than my tap.

The main thing I felt did wrong was I got OEBTs from 3 sources. The first ones I got had lived a couple of weeks so I felt confident. So I got another batch in. Those lived a week so I got another batch in. So, the first batch was ok. The second batch arrived, stressed from shipping (worst shrimp shipping I've seen, one had a broken tail and died in a few hours even, had lost 3-4 by the next morning), so they go into the tank with a weak immune system, become susceptible to bacteria. Then a week after that I got another batch in. So basically I start introducing new bacteria to the tank over and over again with each new bath of shrimp. What I started to realize was it took a few weeks before I actually SAW signs of bacterial infection....it wasn't cloudy bodies...it was missing antennae that were my first signs. Then the deaths started happening. So I started dosing stuff. I researched and researched and asked for help and did everything I could, 80% water changes, 3 weeks of Melafix, tried Paraguard one day with bad results so didn't use it anymore, and in a final desperate bid tried Maracyn 2 which was so strong it killed some neos, more OEBT, AND snails. In the end I crashed the tank doing too much. So, tore the whole thing down and started over.

Every time you introduce livestock, plants, rocks, anything, you introduce new bacteria into the environment. I just put some new shrimp in there this weekend and trust me, I'm biting my nails praying everybody makes it through unscathed.
Thanks for sharing this.

I notice using remineralizers can be expensive but in the long haul it helps. Tap water has way more than what one could expect so every time someone makes a mix with RO, its a risk to take. In terms of adding new bacteria, that makes a lot of sense. Probably good to mix 2 separate batches together when breeding so the F1s and onward could be stronger but the more you mix in, the more prone you are to an outbreak. Where you get the shrimps from is definitely something to consider. My gf and I lost our PRL tank over the summer because its most likely due to a bad batch of shrimps. Everything was doing so well and all of the sudden the blue velvets, after introduced for about a weeks, started to cloud up. They died slowly and it pretty much took out the whole tank from there on out.

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post #28 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by wkndracer View Post
true true on stress but the temp rising within the tank usually coincides with the summer months. Do a search on municipal drinking water treatment and seasonal bacteria counts. Published studies on reservoirs and distribution systems. After you quit puking and switch to bottled drinking water to rinse you're toothbrush you might not blame it all on the tank habitat and heat stress.
That's why 3yrs. ago building my RO system included a final stage of UV treatment on product water. Even wet stored prefilters can be bacteria colonies.
But there's no real way to know. I'm sure folks using 100% UV treated RO water have also experienced bacterial infection outbreaks at one point or another. There are simply too many factors to point the finger at just one problem. Since we know that some tigers are simply very sensitive due to inadequate immune system all we can do is minimize stress and hope for the best. I use UV treated RO myself now, at this point when I redid my tanks I just decided to take every precaution I could. My temps never got above 71-72 when I lost the whole colony so that was never a factor in my situation. Probably going to vary for a lot of keepers
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post #29 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 07:36 PM
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How to prevent bacteria infection

Every time I stir up my substrate I now put a small dose of paraguard in the tank.

Shrimp go nuts when the substrate gets stirred up but I think that's where most infections come from.

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post #30 of 70 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 08:41 PM
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i kinda feel the same way. if you keep animals in sterile places they have no chance at developing the ability to fight off bacteria. same with people and using all the antibacterial crap on the market. i dont do anything special for any of my shrimp. i use tap water, and if they are lucky a water change once a month but normaly its about every 6 weeks. they dont live in sterile conditions in the wild right? and yes i know most of the shrimp we have not are not from the wild but they also cant fight off the things they should be able to. the only thing i plan on doing when i get my new tigers is drip for a loooonnnnggg time lol.

as for what caused my oebt die off i have ideas but no one single cause. i know i had just got new shrimp so they might have stressed but they out lasted the oebt (i put neo's with the oebt) and had them about 3 weeks before things stated going wrong. i dont think temp was a huge factor cause on way more than a couple times my tank would hit almost 80 and no probs. things were well for over a year. i think it had something to do with a water change. there was a huge tornado kinda close (withing 75 miles) and i have a feeling out water plant dupmed all kinds of crap in the water. day after the tornado i did a large water change and with in 2 days things started going down hill and there was no bringing them back. with in a month i had lost my whole colony of about 60 shrimp.

Last edited by wicca27; 03-17-2013 at 08:53 PM. Reason: adding to post
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