Okay, time to start a little journal for myself and others following along. Ideas change as fast as I can put them in a post. So if you are a little crazy, like to have fun and maybe even challenge conventional wisdom, read on with several grains of salt and a saddlebag full of salt shakers.
I work with shrimp mutations quite a bit. 'Tis my passion. When a new color of cherry comes out I salivate. Can't help it. Kind of like Pavlov's Dogs. LOL
Recently I had some colors pop out of a mutation that look very much like already known colors.
One of these is blue velvet. Starts out red as babies and then it fades into a blue color by young adult. I'll be calling these Aqua so as to avoid confusion.
Another is carbon rili. I have both the clear body and blue bodied version. I named the blue bodied ones Boxers before the carbons came out, so again the different name will avoid confusion.
Why do this in public instead of in private like the rest of so many projects?
Simple, I can use insights that I may not have- yet another member may think of. (Ugh. Prepositional ending.)
Plus, if this helps someone else try a project themselves, then go for it!
Here's my thinking as of this day. If I cross the "new mutations" with the known colors from already developed strains- one of two things will happen.
Either I will get offspring that looks like the developed strain (which means the genetics are similar enough that this NOT a "new" mutation.)
Or I will get weird offspring (which means the genetics for the color is located on a different loci- hence a new mutation strain.)
hehe i was thinking there was a reason the the theoretical question thread lol. i like to play with shrimp too. it can be fun and really rewarding. right now im kinda working on a line of prl. i figured that after almost 2 years of breeding and never adding new stock and not yet seen a snow or golden baby from any of them its kinda safe to say they are not crossed with any. i dont really cull but they patter is slowly getting better ie more white even though its not the greatest but then again i dont have 100% perfect water either. i also get blue rili. i have some that are as dark as the blue velvets but mine dont always get the red, they start out dark blue. ive seen your version of the carbons and they are so pretty. you have done great work with them. i cant wait to see what you do next. please keep up the good work, its awsome and no telling what the new color will be. im trying to work on purple rili lol
Wicca, I hope you do get the purple! I was working on a purple cherry for awhile I called Plum, however with the mortality rates, I finally figured maybe the purple from my cherries was either a weak gene or bacterial infection. I culled everything.
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I'm planning on going super low tech on the tanks. Inert substrate, double sponge filter.
I am a little concerned about the temp though. I have all shrimp in 78-80F If I move the shrimp over to the 2.5gs, I'd be better off without a heater, however I don't know if the sudden drop in temp will affect them in a bad way...
I am a little concerned about the temp though. I have all shrimp in 78-80F If I move the shrimp over to the 2.5gs, I'd be better off without a heater, however I don't know if the sudden drop in temp will affect them in a bad way...
You can just take water out of the tank they are in and let it gradually cool to room temperature. That would be less of a sudden shock than transferring from one tank to another immediately.
Have you thought though if you do get : " I will get weird offspring (which means the genetics for the color is located on a different loci- hence a new mutation strain.) " The gene could be recessive. Thus coming out down the line
Ah! That's actually what I am hoping for sbarbee. :icon_cool
You see if I have different loci of the color, that means I have a totally seperate strain than what is currently offered.
Although they would LOOK the same- genetically they would not be. So, when mixed with other colors of shrimp, they could offer up something that hasn't been seen before!
I seriously doubt that either one of these colors are dominant.
I do not think that is true in all cases. As studies on people have shown that if one Identical twin with the same genetic and blood pattern as his brother have children with the same women the out come is different in each trial. I have read on this because I am a identical twin, that had the exact same blood pattern as my twin. We are in the 1%-2% of twins like this.
Well, that is very interesting news, and could possibly put a crimp on things. Thanks you for sharing that with me. It is certainly something to re-examine when I get to that point!
Shrimp could be different, but I have spent years reading up on twins. I belong to a network of twins and there is all kinds of stuff I have learned from it.
if its small tanks and you want to keep them warmer find a shelving unit that will hold them weight wise and just put them up higher. upper part will alawys be warmer than the lower shelves
I guess I don't get what you're trying to say. It's highly possible the children would have different eye colors or different hair color, based on how the DNA is swapped during meiosis. The same man and same woman can have multiple children that differ in phenotypes. What am I missing?
Great suggestions for the water temp guys! I hesitate taking water from one tank to another since the shrimp will come from two different environments. If I have two new tanks, I may as well have new water as well.
HOWEVER, you guys gave me an idea. If I put a heater in the tank and warm it up to what they are used to, then I can take it out, drip acclimate and transfer them without a problem. The water can then cool to 72F or so without any issues as so many suggested.
Nick, here's a very bad pic of an Aqua and 2 clear Boxers. It was all I could get right now...
I dont know if you explained it better in PM, but thats why I asked what you ment. If a man and a women have 100 Male offspring, none will be the same as another (barring an identical twin).
If you have 2 identical twins fathering 50 male offspring each with the same women, none of those 100 will be the same as any other also. And there isent a difference genetically between the fathers, so wether it was 2 identical twins or one person really dosent come into play.
I feel like that is obvious which means Im still misunderstanding the anology here.
No, mine were fire red culls, and had a distinct dark plum color with white sprinkled. I think Wicca has some plum colored rilis.
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So will be getting the tanks today.
Why not tenners instead of 2.5's one may ask?
Simple. I have a pair of black cherries in a tenner that has taken forever for them to breed. Maybe one is sterile? Perhaps. However consider when I had cherries in a 55g, it took them forever too. So my opinion is that the larger size that is actually detrimental to breeding with fewer shrimp.
While the larger tenner would be better for stable water params, the smaller size is better for breeding only 2- 3 shrimp.
(After I use the tanks for this experiment, I may actually use them to coax my Nessies to breed faster. )
my blue rili just started showing up in my red rili. i ended up with mostly all blue shrimp from my red rili and only maybe an hand full of the red and clear rili. not sure why or how it happend it just popped up and kinda was dominate i guess sine the reds slowly went away.
sorry for the kinda hijack but its been brought up so i figure what could it hurt to post a couple pics of my purple rili
purple and blue/aqua rili i get several shades out of them
OKay, so got (2) 2.5g tanks for the ec x nm... then thought...hey, why not get more for other projects...so got 2 more...and then I splurges a little and bought some black silicone airline hose. Ninja, baby! LOL
Just ordered 20 more xy-2831's for future tanks.
My AL-60 came in today and man is it loud. Not as loud as other power air pumps, but louder than my mini air pumps for sure, so I may be diverted while the 2.5's are cycling.
I took measurements of my al-60 and set out to find something to dampen the sound. My decision is box with box technique, but do it as cheaply as possible. Above the air pump I want 3" clearance for air to enter and heat to dissipate.
My first idea was to buy
I got it home, tried sticking the pump in there...FAILURE! Apearently when I took measurements, I took them in the wrong spot. The pump is trapezoidal shaped, so goes smaller as you go up. The footprint was too large to go in.
I still think the cooler idea may work, albeit a larger one. Coolers are made to be insulated, so may work with sound, too. HOWEVER, having said that, I had another brainstorm...
Yepper a 5g bucket for $3. Gonna try it first without insulation, then with if needed. My mission...do it CHEAP and do it safely...
So, as with many creative artists, I can hardly stick to one thing before my mind wanders to other projects as well.
I wanted to share a little something about one of my projects though.
A long time ago in a land not so far away, I bought some yellow shrimp. Make that many yellow shrimp from many different people. Always had bad luck with them.
Some people claim to have had good luck of which I can only say it must depends on the strain(s) of yellows you have. I went through hundreds of $$$ with my yellows dying. Just too sensitive. Would die at a drop of a hat. Didn't matter who they were from. Same results.
Ultimately, out of hundreds, I had 3 survive. Out of these three, they didn't breed for months and months and months and...well, you get the picture. They just... existed.
As a project for myself, I put a couple red cherries in with them hoping I would get a cross and maybe I could selectively breed some for myself.
This is where it gets interesting. Either the new shrimp triggered a breeding instinct or they mated with the three yellows. I soon saw both baby cherries and baby yellows.
Now my gut feeling tells me that at least one cherry mated with the yellows to berry them, BUT I have no proof of that... what I DO know is that after I culled the cherry babies, I FINALLY have a population explosion of very hardy and healthy yellow shrimp for my tank. I have some very vibrant ones and some with just a tinge of yellow- so these need more culling. Heck I'd even sell the culls for cheap, but these shrimp seem to be the most hardy I've ever had as opposed to the all sensitive ones I had in the past!
On other news, I have some 2.5g tanks set up and waiting for me to do a mulm bomb and add the EC x NM shrimp. Time is a tickin'...
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