Anybody interested in writing a book? - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Loachutus View Post
A few hobbyist at loaches.com did this, http://www.loaches.com/loach-book-pu...online-editors . You may want to contact some of them to see how the experience went for them.

I think a magazine would be a better idea, especially with all the fluctuation of information.
A magazine would be nice, and I'm versed in layout designs, but we wouldn't have a base of funding. It could cost over $1,000 for good software, more for paper and printing, while it would take months to put out an issue.

So unfortunately a magazine is a pipe dream for me, however a book is a reality. I will go check their stuff out and try to see if they think they had a worthwhile project.


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post #17 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 03:46 PM
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Personally I would buy a book in a heart beat if it had info that would help me breed shrimp. And yes info changes all the time but so has the aquarium hobby in general. I have tons of books on aquariums that are outdated as far a equipment but the tips and tricks and general info is still a good read several years later. I think there are several people on TPT that are more than capable of writing or contributing accurate info (whether or not they want to reveal their secrets is another thing). I wish that BIG breeders in Germany and Asia would get together and write a book, I'm sure if they printed it in different languages they would sell tons of copies around the world (or even easier an Ebook). Im actually kind of surprised someone like Benibachi hasnt written a book yet.
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post #18 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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@ Blue Falcon

There actually are books in their languages, but I wouldn't know how to translate, or if the info is any good.

But I do agree there is a bunch of knowledge here.


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post #19 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 04:22 PM
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Book would be cool, especially if it was pic heavy. I'd maybe buy it for that reason, but for the information alone, probably not. Reason is because I can get all the up to date info on shrimp keeping for free from here and a couple other sites I go to. Like stated, a book would be great for a short time, but as the hobby progresses the book would become out of date rather quickly. A magazine on the other hand, yeah, I'd consider subscribing to that since they are up to date and always have lots of pictures. As long as it didn't become a huge ad with a few article sprinkled in, it would be a good thing to consider.

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post #20 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 04:33 PM
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There have been several journal articles over the past five or six years. Was a really significant study about disease in freshwater prawns that has lent itself to a lot of use on this forum. I've got the PDF of it somewhere - it was one that Rachel linked last year.

We have to remember that what seems like a thriving hobby on this forum and a handful of others is relatively minuscule when compared to aquaria in general. Tiny niche.

It's already nigh impossible for shrimpers to maintain shrimp-specific websites with all the changing information, new discoveries and advancements in general. And as others have suggested, a book like that would only be beneficial if it contained hundreds of amazing photographs and generalizations. Most look to the internet for free information.

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Truth be told, I'm disappointed you said this, as you were one person I hoped would contribute.

I've been thinking about this since I helped start the invert forum at AA.

My thoughts were despite there being much changing information, there is also a lot of false information, much of which we can all dispel. There are a plethora of experts to hobbyists here who keep shrimp successfully, and who can keep parameters at what shrimp love.


A question.. Where do you find these freshwater journals? I found one from an English scientist who published papers on new shrimp species being discovered.


I just feel like with an exploding population of shrimp keepers, a book on the basics is necessary for them.

I agree it should be an Ebook on Amazon first, but the nice thing about that is if we have some revelation, we can always update it or put out a new a new edition.


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post #21 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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I sort of agree and sort of disagree, but I appreciate your input.

I honestly had someone in mind to make this an extremely photo heavy book/Ebook.

It's true, anything in this book will be able to be found here. But for someone who is poor at online research, not on our forum or new to our forum would have a valuable experience.

Even veterans like us probably would benefit just to have the resource on hand.

This would make a better magazine, and I could picture its layout now. But the funding is the issue there.


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post #22 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 04:43 PM
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I've been thinking about this... I wanted to collect a list of all known shrimp variants (that breed true) in the hobby, get detailed information from breeders and keepers, and slam it all into one source. (Originally just for my reference). Sure all the information is available if you search, but why not have it all in one place, easily accessible, searchable, and revisable.

I was an English major before I switched to Biology. I love shrimp, I love writing, I love science, this screams out to me. I've been lurking this thread but now that people have said it wasn't the best idea, I would love to be a part of this if we decide it could be done.

I agree wholeheartedly that FW Shrimp is a new and booming hobby, but I disagree that the book would be nothing more than good opinions and that it should just be let to wait. Sure new species and new information will come to light, but that doesn't mean we should wait for someone else to figure it all out for us. If we lack concrete data, then we should make concrete data.

We have plenty of experienced shrimp keepers and breeders on the forum. I can already think of a handful and I've only been here for 2 weeks. I know for a fact we have the knowledge and experience to at least make a comprehensive guide, if not an entire walk-through of how to successfully keep and breed dozens of species of shrimp.

I've read many a book about keeping fish, inverts, and other marine organisms, both salt and freshwater; they're nothing more than opinions, tried and tried over again. The authors don't do scientific studies and pick the most efficient result to publish, they do what they think will work, over and over again, trying new things here and there and then picking the method they feel is the easiest and most efficient way of doing things. Or creating their own!

Once it's proven to work well, most people accept and begin to follow it. That's when authors revise their books to improve their methods based on feedback from other keepers and hobbyists.

It's all precedence. If we managed to release a comprehensive e-book about the keeping of shrimp, who's to say it won't become widely accepted throughout the forum communities? What would stop us from revising and publishing then?

Even if it doesn't get huge, we still have a detailed guide for the members of TPT that we could distribute for free, at the very least.

I wholeheartedly agree that this is a project worth undertaking, even with the obstacles that stand in the way. Revision of your work is very common in the scientific field, and new information always forces researchers to revise their studies. A resource of this magnitude would be beneficial to everyone, as long as it's kept up to date with new information.

I say that if you won't help us, at least provide us with your knowledge and experiences so we can do it!

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post #23 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 04:55 PM
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The problem is there is guidelines that everyday I see people break exceptions to those guidelines. For example, MananaP keeps his OEBT's and his newly bred white tigers in 5pH 6gH 0kH water. That defies everything about OEBT's HAVING to be kept in a higher pH, harder water. There are people that get CRS to breed in 7,4pH tap water, but most who try, will end up with dead shrimp. A lot of it comes down to the source water the shrimp were kept in and bred in for generations, they do evolve (despite those pesky people who don't believe in evolution). If you take enough CRS and put them in a high pH tap water, a few babies will eventually live and those babies will be more conditioned to live in a higher pH water and their babies will adapt a bit better and there is people out there will fully breeding populations of CRS in high pH tap water, that has taken years to develop,but none the less, happened.

So what do put in the book? The "recommended" 6-6.5pH or the 5pH some breeders use or the guys water who is 7.4pH?

There are guidelines but many exceptions to the rules. I know a breeder who's house I've been to buy shrimp, who hasn't changed water in years. 10-20gal tanks, aquaclear filter on them, tops off with 75%RO/25%tap, and feeds them fish flakes and some veggies now and again and that's it. Has tanks full of shrimp. Then there is the 3 canister people on a 20gal, 9 different minerals and supliments with tanks full of shrimp. Who is right? Who's info do you put in the book as "fact". That's the problem with a book. Putting info in there, people are going to take it as fact and when it doesn't work, they are going to the book, and you, the author.

I've learned through lots of trial and error, the simplier your setup, the better. The less you mess with it, the better. Find what works for your shrimp and stick with it. There, all the advice you need for a book right there in 2 lines. lol.

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post #24 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 04:59 PM
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I think you misinterpreted our motives for a book. It isn't to establish that there is one concrete and best way to keep certain shrimp, it is to provide a guideline for keeping them well and be an accepted resource for a plethora of problems that one might encounter. A well of knowledge that both new and verteran keepers (c wat i did ther) can refer to when they're scratching their heads over which pH is best for the shrimp babies, (who are more sensitive than their adult counterparts) or what foods have the highest calcium content. (Kale & Spinach).

First of all, it would be stupid to publish that one guy's stand-alone experience with 7.4 pH as anything other than an anecdote to prove "exceptions to the rule". That's obviously not the optimal range to keep CRS in. Just because one instance of his worked doesn't mean it will work for everyone... which is the point of such a guide; to find the optimal range that works for everyone, for every shrimp.

I agree with you because I know for a fact these creatures can adapt very well, they can survive in nearly any reasonable condition as long as they've been allowed to adapt.

But by that logic, there shouldn't be any guides for any creatures because they all can adapt to different conditions. Does this mean that nobody should share what doesn't work? Does this prevent other keepers from documenting and sharing what works? HELL to the NO girlfriend.

There is a "golden range" for every creature, and that is what we are aiming to find out.

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post #25 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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Well I'm extremely happy this at the very least sparked some discussion.

AVN, thanks for your enthusiasm, I think it is a great opportunity.

GeTo, I think you and somewhat shocked are on a similar page when it comes to why you are somewhat against it..

So let me say this.. You two are EXPERTS at keeping shrimp lol. You already know sooo much. But the point of this isn't to inform people of one or two methods you MUST follow, but to show people that it is a complex, yet simple hobby that if you properly prepare for, you will enjoy.

Think of how many questions are posted daily: Just bought 20 CRS what is a cycle?!?

If this stopped just one question, if it got 10 downloads, wouldn't it be worth it?

AVN is right, this is to give a general outline, with chapters on set up, purchasing, diseases, cycling, breeding, types, ect.

It took me months of reading just to decide I had enough information to purchase shrimp, and when I did, I learned I had a TON of homework still to do. I know what I do today thanks to a bunch of skilled shrimp keepers. And instead of people learning by trial and error by death of shrimp, why can't they get a good base line reading from the start?

It is stuff we all know, but others don't. I can't honestly see how the process of cycling is going to change, how setting up an eye appealing aquarium will change, how keeping things simple will change, how breeding shrimp will change, how the general water requirements will change.

I see that new breeds will pop up, I understand that within months, maybe years, a gadget which makes shrimp water perfect might pop up, but why couldn't it be revised yearly to add in new topics, new gadgets, foods and techniques?


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post #26 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 05:57 PM
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I do think it's a nice idea. And if you think it's a viable one, make it happen. There's nothing to stop you.

We're just sharing our opinion on this conversational forum that it would need to be rather general in order to be useful.

Just note something... none of us here on TPT are experts by any stretch of the imagination. Not the importers who have been at this for just a few years because it makes them money and not those of us who have had shrimp for a decade. I think that's what we've been trying to say without being specific. I.E., it's a fine idea but a bunch of people with general experience doesn't necessarily lend credibility to anything.

Even if you do go down the e-book path, I recommend you go the website route first. Compile your data on the web and get things worked out before releasing a guide of some sort. That'll give you less headaches. Particularly when it comes to the nightmare that is copyright, unintentional plagiarism and such. The web can help you get those ducks in a row.
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post #27 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 06:02 PM
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Agreed with the above post. Internet would be the best route to begin. Book/Magazine is only if it becomes large enough to publish.

I disagree that you aren't experts though, you may not be world class breeders and exporters, but you sure have the expertise needed to care for those shrimp well enough to breed and resell them. That's the level of expertise needed to teach others.

We aren't out to stun the world with new information as to how to care for their shrimp, just to pool the information so that hobbyists like ourselves don't rip out their hair trying to diagnose and solve their problems.

Let's get to it MABJ!
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post #28 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 06:03 PM
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There's a lot of passionate folks on here who want to do nothing but help other folks. Then there are those folks who probably prefer not to, due to their own beliefs. That being said, if you really do plan on writing a book, I'd be happy to be a partner as far as supplying you with photos and my basic opinions on shrimp keeping/breeding.

Heck you can contact youjettisonme and use his entire "Sage Advice for Noobie Shrimp Keepers" writeup. I'm sure he'll oblige.
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post #29 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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I do think it's a nice idea. And if you think it's a viable one, make it happen. There's nothing to stop you.

We're just sharing our opinion on this conversational forum that it would need to be rather general in order to be useful.

Just note something... none of us here on TPT are experts by any stretch of the imagination. Not the importers who have been at this for just a few years because it makes them money and not those of us who have had shrimp for a decade. I think that's what we've been trying to say without being specific. I.E., it's a fine idea but a bunch of people with general experience doesn't necessarily lend credibility to anything.

Even if you do go down the e-book path, I recommend you go the website route first. Compile your data on the web and get things worked out before releasing a guide of some sort. That'll give you less headaches. Particularly when it comes to the nightmare that is copyright, unintentional plagiarism and such. The web can help you get those ducks in a row.
I suppose I should rephrase. You're experts compared to me.

I made this simply because I do not have the necessary information to do it alone. I posses the descriptive powers, but other than that, I need people like you, who have successfully bred and kept a variety of species and tons of tanks.

Your website comment does intrigue me. How easy would it be to make a tumblr, or like blog, into a website where we can compile information.

But if we do that, don't we directly compete with wonderful sites like planet inverts? The book thought was because we have literally zero competition at the moment.

The goal, for me, isn't financial gains. Just a project and a helpful one hopefully at that.

I'm only informed in article copyrights, so perhaps you could explain what you mean on the unintentional plagiarism?


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post #30 of 99 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by speedie408 View Post
There's a lot of passionate folks on here who want to do nothing but help other folks. Then there are those folks who probably prefer not to, due to their own beliefs. That being said, if you really do plan on writing a book, I'd be happy to be a partner as far as supplying you with photos and my basic opinions on shrimp keeping/breeding.

Heck you can contact youjettisonme and use his entire "Sage Advice for Noobie Shrimp Keepers" writeup. I'm sure he'll oblige.
LOL you were the person I was going to approach about photos so it brings me nothing but happiness to see you comment here.


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