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DK's m..a..d.. d..o..-i..n..g..s........

265K views 2K replies 180 participants last post by  Loachutus 
#1 · (Edited)
(BTW - These are projects under development and none are for sale at this time.)

I've had a slew of requests to post updates on my projects lately, so here goes. I'll have to do it in several posts.

First off, the big kahuna. Took me a year to engineer, and the past year has been in beta testing. I run my tanks off our well water, which happens to emerge from the ground like CO2 infused RO water with 10 ppm nitrates (farm fertilizer runoff). So all the water to feed my tanks has to be "made" to specs.

I designed this, what I call DK's water factory, to make me some water. It creates three streams of water which I can blend to make most any water for a given tank. So every tank gets custom water, twice daily, automated from this beast.

It wasn't without moaning and gnashing of the teeth, and I've had to learn incrementally what works and what doesn't and work laboriously slowly and methodically to formulate the global conditions, and then tweak each tank for optimization to their specie.

Each global test can only change parameters about 5% and takes a few weeks to take effect to observe the specie, so it's a long process. This is due to the fact that too drastic a change could crash one or more tanks.

On top of working out the global parameters for the Water Factory, I also fired up more tanks last year to accomodate more breeding projects. So it's been a busy year, just trying to get it all together and keep from accidentally killing stuff, which, alas, I didn't altogether avoid. I had some pretty good setbacks that tested my skills and nerve.
 
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#19 · (Edited)
That first picture makes my head hurt.
If you think of it as tinker toys, legos, and mud pies for adults, then it's not so intimidating. It was a WHOLE lotta fun to do.

Are those just regular substrate, or are they some special ones that buffer the water? Beside leaf litter, what leaves are those in the last pic?
I believe in ecosystems - as my background is as a biologist. I do not believe in proprietary, artificial, designer, or chemically-induced and try to avoid them whenever possible. Regular cheap substrate. Backyard leaves - oak, maple, poplar, elm, beech

where did you acquire the orange sakura shrimp from? was this a cross between a yellow and red sakura?
A shrimpy friend, and I was lucky to get a few. They are a color gene mutation of reds.

I have a few questions if you don't mind.

That first rack on the right, is that 24" deep and about 72" or so long? I've seen a similar rack at Costco. Are those 15's set end to end? I was going to go with 10's as they are cheaper and I have limited space. However they are over 20" long and the next size down in racks is 18" unless I special order. So I thought I may go with 15's for the stability and because I'd have to go the next size up in racks anyhow.

About the wire mesh on those racks. If I recall correctly, some of the wires are up higher than others right? That's no issue if they are very close, but I think the ones I saw only had a few that were higher and I was worried about a way to even this out. It looks like you used foam? However, with rimmed tanks the foam pushes up on the bottom plane. They are meant to rest on the rim or something hard that doesn't form to the bottom. I was thinking they may even be safe right on top of the wires as long as the distance between wires is close. Not positive on that, but if it's only a 2" spread there should be any pressure points of consequence as the load is spreak by the trim.

If you did use foam, how do you find it holds up to getting water and other dirt on it? That was one of my concerns is how it will look after awhile.

I'm looking to do similar quality work as yourself with the shrimp, just on a much smaller scale. I could use some assistance, if you have the time or inclination, you can pm me. It's rare to find people trying to do every aspect to the highest standard. I'm the very same way, I just don't have all the knowledge yet.

Thanks,

Anthony
The FIRST place, and really only place (aside from breeding livestock) I spend top bucks is on my shelving infrastructure. The most expensive thing I have is my shelving. If your shelving units fail, you lose EVERYTHING. You are mixing heavy weight, water, electricity, and lots of other pricey stuff, and if the shelves fail, you lose it all, and in a dangerous and damaging way. All the rest of my stuff is BORG off the shelf parts, modest tanks, heaters, and filters - nothing high end. To me, the real beauty lies in a gorgeous, healthy animal and perfect ecosystem, not the gizmos surrounding them - that is just noise to me, and fashion. My first generation of tanks were plastic drawers from the dollar store. I still have one in use, as a matter of fact, because it is producing so well still I hate to disrupt the population in it. It is currently cantilevered off the end of one of my shelving units because I don't have anywhere else to put it right now!

I use industrial, double-rivet boltless shelving with a steel beam center support, welded 1/4 inch epoxy coated grids, all rated at 1500 lbs per shelf. I put closed-cell foam board on top of the grids to distribute the weight. It's precisely BECAUSE the tank rims will sink into the foam a tiny bit that makes this so safe - all the weight load is then evenly distributed with no pressure points. I would never put tanks on a rigid wire grid with extreme pressure points resulting. Closed cell foam (BORG) is waterproof but will dent, tear, etc. if abused. It lasts just fine if you are reasonably careful.

Since I like non-proprietary, I use 24x48 units, then I can use 48 inch shop lights overhead. They have the most widely available and cheapest T8 bulbs, and easiest to buy. I use 15 gallon tanks because they use the same glass thickness as 20s. The 10s are way too weak and flimsy in the glass for my liking.

I do use a couple of custom products: $8 mirrorized aluminum reflectors for the shop lights, and $10 custom twinwall polycarbonate greenhouse panels for lids that insulate but allow 90% light transmission through and are heat and impact resistant. Both contribute to energy efficiency, so pay for themselves.

-DK
 
#3 · (Edited)
T-rex and black tigers, poison blues

I started off with some breeder stock and right away did an outcross generation to a batch of top "black" blue tiger females. This was to spread the genes into a "seed" population for retrieval later after backcrossing. This reduces risk of losing the genes and also injects genetic diversity into the final production population.

The initial outcross tank also resulted in some of the original breeder stock breeding to other original breeder stock, resulting in pure strain offspring. Those F1s were removed and put into a first generation production tank. The remaining outcross siblings remained in a separate tank, to produce F2s, some of which would emerge as blacks. Those blacks then would be funneled out of the outcross tank and added into the first generation production tank.

The first generation production tank is now on its own F2s and is producing solid blacks, what I call scalloped blacks, T-rex blacks, poison blues, and I think I see some T-rex poison blues coming up, too, but must wait for them to mature to be sure. Once this tank is populated up, then I'll select upper grades from it to seed the second generation production tank.

My first goal is to get a large, genetically diverse population with "black tiger" genes throughout. So the initial breeder stock included high grade dark and red eye blacks, high grade OE blacks, T-rex blacks, and one poison blue OE. Once I have enough population to split out amongst these groups, they will each be refined separately. But the first goal was a robust population with a wider gene base.

Here are some recent photos:

This first picture is a black resulted from the outcross sibling cross in the outcross tank. Neither parent was black, but both were half black carriers, and a very small minority of their offspring turn out black. The next pictures are from the now first generation production tank.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Here is another line under development - Orange Sakura. They are a bright, slightly creamy, slightly translucent citrus-y orange. You can see the quality of color on the male. The females are nicer, still, but like to hide in the weeds, and I don't disturb them. I'll get a picture one of these days of a female...
 
#7 · (Edited)
Red Tigers.

I've spent the last year gathering breeding stock from about 5 sources, backcrossing to wild-type to make a seed tank, then taking the resulting F2s that were red to seed the first generation production tank with all reds. That tank is now producing its F1 generation and trickling in, but I just feel like I haven't hit the sweet spot with them, yet. I think I'm not doing well, and yet I do see offspring of different sizes in there. So I'm hoping to get these guys up and flying in the next months. They are a beautiful shrimp when they are happy - striped with day-glo scarlet.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Last month, I fired up the beginnings of SSS black and red tanks. Those will take about a year to proof the lines.

I couldn't get very many out of the weeds to eat, as they don't like their veggies (especially olive green freezer burned garden swiss chard) as much as their junk food with shrimp attractants and pheromones built-in! I'll try to get a better picture when more come out next junk food feeding.
 
#18 ·
Awesome work on the setup side and your working with the animals.

I have a few questions if you don't mind.

That first rack on the right, is that 24" deep and about 72" or so long? I've seen a similar rack at Costco. Are those 15's set end to end? I was going to go with 10's as they are cheaper and I have limited space. However they are over 20" long and the next size down in racks is 18" unless I special order. So I thought I may go with 15's for the stability and because I'd have to go the next size up in racks anyhow.

About the wire mesh on those racks. If I recall correctly, some of the wires are up higher than others right? That's no issue if they are very close, but I think the ones I saw only had a few that were higher and I was worried about a way to even this out. It looks like you used foam? However, with rimmed tanks the foam pushes up on the bottom plane. They are meant to rest on the rim or something hard that doesn't form to the bottom. I was thinking they may even be safe right on top of the wires as long as the distance between wires is close. Not positive on that, but if it's only a 2" spread there should be any pressure points of consequence as the load is spreak by the trim.

If you did use foam, how do you find it holds up to getting water and other dirt on it? That was one of my concerns is how it will look after awhile.

I'm looking to do similar quality work as yourself with the shrimp, just on a much smaller scale. I could use some assistance, if you have the time or inclination, you can pm me. It's rare to find people trying to do every aspect to the highest standard. I'm the very same way, I just don't have all the knowledge yet.

Thanks,

Anthony
 
#22 ·
That DIY plastic drawer tank is so cool!

I totally agree with you that expensive gear isn't essential for breeding shrimp. I've recently switched over to ugfs because I get so annoyed by how the foam covering the intakes of my hobs clogged so quickly. That's why I'm surprised you're such a proponent of hobs considering it's more expensive to run a zillion of them and ugfs seem to prevent any planaria outbreaks and extend the life of the soil.

Do you have lots of plants in your crs tanks? My first tank was originally densely planted, but I wound up ripping almost everything out because it was so hard to keep track of berried females and babies and it also made removing uneaten food a real chore.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Do you have lots of plants in your crs tanks? My first tank was originally densely planted, but I wound up ripping almost everything out because it was so hard to keep track of berried females and babies and it also made removing uneaten food a real chore.
I keep different mosses. I don't really keep track of berried females; it's like trying to watch the pot boil...

Thanks much for the specifics. Do you have any pics of those lids? I'm wondering how you did them, handles or sliding, etc...

Do you feel you would go RO/DI if it weren't for your water supply? I ask because my water isn't bad, but I'd need fancy substrate to lower Gh/Kh/Ph for some species and if I could save on substrat the RO/DI system would pay for itself.

Also, even though my water is ok in general, I don't trust it fully. A lot of cities with aging systems blast the system to keep things in check at unknown times. I've also, on rare ocassion, had my water come out smelling. Not sure if this is bacterial or what, but it's kinda scary and surprising in a metropolitan area.

As you know, as your investment in stock goes up, so does the concern.

Do you sell mosly on here in the SNS or are you on Aquabid as well? Just wondering where to look for your stock.
Depends on my water, and its reliability. I would never use designer substrate, though. It fatigues over time and when you finally realize it's fatigued, you are stuck needing to re-do an entire tank at the mercy of its timing. With an RO unit, you change your filters, but you can control that, and it doesn't distrupt your entire tank to do, to make appropriate water. Plus, you don't have to shell over too much money, AGAIN, for designer substrate.

Mostly I hang around TPT, but I do occasionally put stuff on AB (ID = photosyner), to keep my feedback refreshed. The exotic stuff will first go up on AB, to help me recoup some of the horrifying up front expenses I've had to spend to get into some of these new varieties. I do not feel comfortable asking sky high prices for stuff, so when it's new I let the market decide on AB. When I have production up enough, I move over here and try to spread stuff into the hobby affordably.

Pic of a lid, below. I used a hole saw to drill a hole, then ordered buna-n grommets and plugs from Grainger.

Picture of some Black Tigers snackin' down in their "cave," while the boyfriends dance in the foreground... somebody just molted and is gonna be packing eggs, soon... whoo hoo! I just took these pics...

Picture of a coo-el Blue Tiger T-Rex baby.
 
#24 ·
DK, YOU ROCK! It is exciting to see your set up and the 1 order of Hino n-e's says it all when you look at them. Though, i now feel like a complete dunce for ordering an Azoo substrate ;). Oh well, it works, it is pretty but $$$. At least it is leaf litter in essence. or so i hope and think. :)
 
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