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Shrimp + LFS = Sadness

5K views 20 replies 8 participants last post by  natemcnutty 
#1 ·
Sorry... didn't mean for the following to be a novel... just venting via writing :-(

So I've had an interest in shrimp for quite some time... My first purchase over a year ago was a small group of Amano's. I didn't know a lot about them in particular, but did some digging into their needs/requirements and found my tank to be a good match (with a secret hope they could help my algae situation at the time).

I go to my LFS and ask for 3. The worker asked a few pertinent questions regarding tank mates so he knew they wouldn't just become an expensive snack. So he grabs me 3 and says "I grabbed you 2 females and a male... before you know it you'll have more shrimp than you know what to do with". It wasn't my goal at the time, but sounded exciting and had my interest. A good 5min of reading clued me in to the fact I'd never see any babies (call me a slacker if you want, but I wasn't about to collect eggs and simulate a trip to the ocean and back). Every so often I see her carrying eggs and feel bad that I'll never be a "shrimp dad"...lol

Fast forward several months and I decide to get some shrimp that will hopefully breed. The LFS does get some interesting shrimp (I will give them that) and I tried to select the easiest to care for breed they had, they were Rili Red. I ask for 3 again in hopes they might breed someday. I told him I wanted males and females because I really wanted little ones. He says "no problem at all". Fast forward another 6 months or so and still no luck. I see the little "saddle" deal more/less on some of them as time passes. Then one day I see it really obvious on all three at the same time... great, I'm shafted again!

Soooo... I head back a third time and relay my story/hopes/dreams of baby shrimp, and mentioned how the last guy was no help. I figured I had a better idea at this point and grab one male (by myself) based off the round/straight underbody deal as well as size. He says "I'll get my buddy (co-worker) who's a 'shrimp expert' so you know you have 2 males". Great- Even better luck than me picking both! He looks at mine in the little fish-box deal and says "you have one already". He then gives the other LFS dude a little run-down on how to sex them and grabs my other one.

Last week... I'm checking out my new shrimp and notice one of the 2 is obviously a female. I still believe that the one is a male, but I'm frustrated... and at the same time feel let down with my usually great LFS. To make matters worse... I watch 2 of my amanos walking around with eggs adding insult to injury. I think my next purchase will be from a shrimp breeder online with a greater number of shrimp and renewed hopes of finally being a "shrimp dad". Until then I'll just look at my shrimp and feel sad for them... lol. Thx for listening :)
 
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#8 ·
Ugh... sorry, was just typing for like 20min with all my specs and the page refreshed with nothing on it, so I'll condense lol

Eheim 2213 with Fluval filter intake sponge deal (bought a bunch in bulk)

Water was crazy hard with high pH

Switched back to running my RO/DI system again a few months ago (mainly to help out my poor little green neon school stuck in crappy conditions)

Was mixing RO/DI with tap to slowly bring things in line, then was still struggling with high KH and pH so I went to straight RO/DI with SS GH+ to give me happy perameters and a pH now in the 6's (down over a point and a half from my start)

Here's a pic... the tanks kinda ugly as it's my little plant hospital/grow tank. No fancy substrate, just Fluorite and pfs... :)



Haha... thx Betta, I'm still hopeful!
 
#4 ·
I disagree, you need a group of them... like other fish they won't really breed 1 on 1. think about it, these things are tiny. get a group of them. think about it. you bought about 10 in total over the course of a few months right? if you would have bought 10 off the bat and take the hit in your wallet, you would already have babies. I am selling RCS for $2 each if you are interested.
 
#5 ·
Red rilis are cherry shrimp.

It's recommended to start with 10 shrimp of the same species (there are no "breeds", necessarily, but plenty of colors and hybrids!). If you go with at least 10, you have a much higher chance of getting males and females.


You've probably been a "shrimp dad" a thousand times over! And then some! You do not need to 'collect' eggs from amano shrimp and put them in brackish or marine water. The eggs hatch just fine in freshwater! The babies are, however, extremely tiny! Smaller than Neo shrimp babies! (amusing, since Neos are much smaller than Amanos!) However, within a week of hatching, they do need to be transferred to brackish or saltwater. You don't have to acclimate them or anything, just plop them right in! The difficult part is actually getting them from the tiny little larvae/zoe stage to the miniature adult stage. Once they are miniature adults, then 24 hours later, start acclimating them back to freshwater. Recommended to do it over a period of 3 days, but it's simple. Day 1, 50% marine/brackish to fresh. Day 2, 50% water change with fresh. Day 3, another 50% fresh WC. Day 4, move to freshwater.


Adults can survive in brackish water up to 17 ppt but most people keep them in freshwater aquariums. The offspring can handle up to full marine conditions though!


Haven't had any luck raising amanos, personally...
 

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#9 ·
It's not true that you'll always get brown/wild type offspring if you mix Neo colors. Once had a "pair" of yellow Neos in a community of cherries. Never saw any brown or wild type offspring. Not to say it couldn't have happened, but it didn't for me.

It's possible to mix chocolate, bloody mary, carbon rili and blue diamond and potentially not get any wild offspring, either. Bloody mary x PFR also does not result in wild colored offspring.


Although you may not get any amazing colors like those seen in Caridina hybrids, it's still possible to get some interesting colors by mixing Neo colors!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6BZP2z64jg


Now, if one chooses to mix Neo colors, it is a good idea to have a cull tank set up for the less desirable offspring... or perhaps a community tank. Wild colored cherries do tend to blend in better in community tanks anyway, thus being able to create their own colony.



Aqua99, do you know your GH, KH and TDS of your tank water?
 
#10 ·
Aqua99, do you know your GH, KH and TDS of your tank water?
I should be close to, or a little under these numbers from last week...

GH 8
KH 4
TDS 160-180 after re-mineralizing outside tank (will have to check current tank TDS)

Thx so much for all the comments everyone. I guess if I had my heart set on shrimp farming I should have picked up a bunch over a year ago... It's just disheartening that I never even really had the inclination to start doing it till my LFS gave me some bad info from the start, then compounded the whole thing with same-sex after same-sex shrimp. I guess I'm more let down with my LFS than anything. Come to think of it, they're the same FS that I got my first batch of endler's from when I first got into breeding them (the females popped out endless feeder guppies).
 
#11 ·
Parameters look good!


Shrimp are a bit of a learning curve from fish, but they are still fun to watch! :) If you choose to purchase online, try and make sure you get 'home grown' shrimp instead of imported ones!


If you choose to get PFR or even FR, then Rili x FR/PFR will result in a mixed grade between the two, and the shrimp may eventually revert to all red.

I haven't heard of mixing Rili x Bloody Mary yet, but might end up with mainly Bloody Mary colored offspring?

Red Rili x *True* Blue Velvet should result in a mix of Red Rili, Blue Velvet, and Blue Body Red Rili?

Not sure about some of the other mixes though...
 
#12 ·
Last week... I'm checking out my new shrimp and notice one of the 2 is obviously a female. I still believe that the one is a male, but I'm frustrated... and at the same time feel let down with my usually great LFS.
Sounds like paradise, 4 females and 1 male? I had 2 males and 6 females and it worked out well.
 
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#13 ·
I think you definitely could breed shrimp, everything in your tank looks good! Plants look healthy so I wouldn't say your tank is ugly BTW. Just make sure you get a big group of shrimp next time, 10 should do the trick.
As for being let down by your LFS, I'm sure that is a common occurence in this hobby unfortunately.


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#15 ·
This tank has an eheim 2213 with a Fluval filter sponge over the intake. I have a small Hydor circulation pump (Pico 100 I think), but I wasn't going to stop that till I see one berried. The intake on that is so tiny an adult can't get pulled in even if it tried.

Thx again everybody for your guidance and suggestions (and the kind words about my pic!). I recently picked up a small cube that I think I'm going to set up as a dedicated shrimp tank and put some effort into. I'm interested in finally setting up a tank from day 1 with re-mineralized RO/DI and not fighting existing harsh tap water. Maybe I'll do a little journal on it... I just finished building the led setup for it and have some more "advanced" (compared to my inert stuff) substrate on its way to me (Controsoil... not sure if anybody still even uses it anymore, lol).

Thx again for the input and listening.
 
#17 ·
With Controsoil, you could get into more advanced shrimp...


General rule of thumb, Neos (aka Cherries, Rilis, Neon Yellow, Blue Dream, Carbon Rili, Bloody Mary, etc) do best on sand. Many tigers can also be kept in similar parameters as Neos.

Controsoil buffers the pH of the water, which means you don't want any KH in the water. This means it's slightly less desirable for Neos, but Caridinas (crystals, taiwan bees, etc) do like it!
 
#18 ·
Haha yeah... leave it to me to go from no shrimp to attempting the hardest shrimp!

I fell in love with the Blue Bolt shrimp when I read about them months ago, and would like to attempt them some day (way...waaay) down the road. That was the intent of the new cube I have, but I'm in no rush to get it going until I know more. Even then I plan to just get it up and running as a good habitat only and see if I can keep stable perameters first, then shop for the shrimp. The other ones I really liked were Tigers. Do you think the Tigers would be happy with the Controsoil tank or do they need more KH than I could give them? If not, I could possibly give them a home in my other empty (just plants now) nano.

Also, have you used SaltyShrimp GH+/KH+? The strictly GH+ works nice for me... I can mix it based on TDS and get good perameters. When I try the GH/KH version, things get all screwy and the pH jumps from my RO of 7 to 8+, and that's still below the target TDS.

All of this is just based on shrimp keeping at the moment... breeding would be cool some day, but I have a lot to learn in general before that.
 
#20 ·
I haven't heard that Tigers can be as "picky" as Crystals, TB's or Neos when it comes to water parameters. Generally speaking, they do prefer Neo parameters, but they should be okay in Caridina, too? I hope to pick up some Caridina hybrid (no one quite sure what they are made of... but good chance that TT is in their lineage) next month. Been having crap luck with Neos, so maybe I'll have better luck with something else? Or not... will see!



I haven't used SS. The product I have I don't like and was a bad choice. It's a powder and, IMO, very "dirty", TDS wise... Which is why I mix my soft water with harder tap water to get more desirable results.
 
#21 ·
I really don't think Crystals are all that picky either, but I guess that could depend on just how inbred your bloodline is?

To be a bit fair to the LFS, it can be difficult to tell on juveniles, and usually you want younger shrimp as they acclimate and look better long term. Like others have said, that's why we want to buy at least 5-6 if not more at the same time as you are more likely to get both sexes.

If you like CRS, hit me up via PM, and I'll get you taken care of ;)

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