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New cherry shrimp dead, possibly molting issues

14K views 68 replies 10 participants last post by  Ryan Mosby 
#1 · (Edited)
I have a Fluval Spec V 5-gallon tank, currently with an isolated betta fish (going to be moved out of tank) and 3 (2 berried) red cherry shrimp. Yesterday I received my shipment of 5 more cherry shrimp (blue velvet, sapphire, orange rili, yellow diamond back, etc). I drip acclimated them, waited until the water was doubled, poured out half, and waited until the water was doubled again before I netted them and introduced them to the tank. They were in there all day, no problem. Everything seemed fine until today--fast forward 12 hours, I check up on them, and there's one dead on a leaf. The first thing that seems odd to me is that the head shell is red, the middle seems orange, and the very tip of their tail is blue. I net them out and take a better look at them. I can see the head shell clearly enough, so I think it molted the other half of its shell (which is why it's so pale in the middle, it looks pink out of water), but I guess it couldn't molt the head shell off? It doesn't even look like it had started molting at all, it just looks like he's missing the rest of his shell. I know trouble molting is a bad sign, usually an indicator of GH being too high or low; earlier this month I had too much calcium so I used water softener to bring the GH down. I've been doing a couple water changes prior to this incident and the day of, about 3 this week, to try and lessen my brown algae. I did a general test strip of my water,

Water Parameters - 1/21/17
Nitrate: around 80 ppm
Nitrite: about .5 to 1 ppm
GH: 4.2
Chlorine: 0
KH: 4.48
PH: between 7.2 and 7.8
TDS: 335 ppm

Water Parameters - 1/25/17
Nitrate: about 60 ppm
Nitrite: .5
GH: 4.2
Chlorine: 0
KH: 4.48
pH: still between 7.2 and 7.8
Ammonia: 0
TDS: 306

Water Parameters - 1/28/17
Nitrate: 40 ppm
Nitrite: 1 ppm
GH: 4.2
Chlorine: 1.0
KH: 4.48
pH: still between 7.2 and 7.8
Ammonia: 0
TDS: 311
 
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#3 · (Edited)
It was I think about 3-4 weeks ago and it did bring my gh down, though I did have one death in that time. I'll have to be more careful next time and find an alternative.

For now I have to figure out how to get all the parameters back into alignment without adding one thing to treat a parameter that will spike another.

I forgot to add, every time I do a pwc, I add CO2 Booster, Stress Coat, Nite-Out II (Nitrifying Bacteria) and Fox Farm Grow Big Hydroponic Plant Food. It seems odd to me that nitrites and ammonia would still be a bit high with the Nite-Out II being added over several water changes this week.

The higher nitrates is odd because my tank is pretty well planted, though I've only been adding CO2 every water change, rather than every day. I tested my tap water for nitrates and it's really low, nearly 0.

For the low KH and GH, I could add calcium carbonate.

For the pH, I could buy pH Down.

So my questions are, would this fix my parameters? pH Down, calcium carbonate, and continuing to do water changes a few times a week?
 
#4 ·
First off, leave the pH be. Cherries are adaptable and can live in high pH water no problems. They prefer higher pH as it is. (i.e. 7+)


Second, stop adding anything to water changes *EXCEPT* something like Prime or similar product.


Third, what are your tap water parameters? Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, GH, KH and TDS?
 
#5 ·
Second, stop adding anything to water changes *EXCEPT* something like Prime or similar product.
So just the Stress Coat for the tap water? What about for the plants, no more CO2 or plant food?

Third, what are your tap water parameters? Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, GH, KH and TDS?
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
GH: 4.2 dGH
KH: 2.24 dKH
TDS: 66
 
#6 ·
Yes, just Stress Coat.


You need to bump up your GH ideally around 6 (as mentioned in the other thread), and the TDS should be at least 130-300. (have heard of cherries being kept in water with 400+ TDS) Your best bet is to get a Bee/Crystal shrimp remineralizer. Seachem Equilibrium can also work in a pinch.


Get the remineralizer and mix with your tap water to raise the GH and TDS. Then start doing small, but frequent, water changes and drip acclimate the water back in. About 5-10% daily or every other day. This will help to raise the GH and TDS while lowering the nitrates and nitrites. As I mentioned, the KH is fine.




Once you fix those issues, then you may try going back to the CO2/plant food. Changing those parameters while also dosing the tank is more stress than the inhabitants need. Dosing can also raise the TDS.
 
#7 ·
Not sure if there's been a mixup; the stats I last listed were for the tap water parameters you asked for, and are not the parameters of my tank.

My tank parameters are:

PH: between 7.2 and 7.8
KH: 4.48
GH: 4.42
Nitrate: around 80 ppm
Nitrite: about .5 to 1 ppm
Ammonia: Unsure
Chlorine: 0
TDS: 335 ppm

I definitely don't want to raise my TDS more, I need to decrease it.
 
#8 ·
No, no mix up. I did word it wrong, though! I meant, that adding a remineralizer to your water changes will help to increase your GH, but lower the tank's TDS.


Get a GH+ remineralizer, add it to your tap water until the TDS is about 130-150, then do frequent, but small water changes with that until your tank parameters are under control.


Once the parameters are under control, then you can try re-adding the CO2 and plant food... but keep in mind, these can raise the TDS.
 
#9 ·
Oh! Okay, that makes sense. So just keep with the Stress Coat and add GH+ remineralizer! I'll have to buy it elsewhere online since my lfs (Petco) doesn't seem to sell anything like that on their site.

Edit: Is there another name for remineralizer? It'd be faster if I can buy it at my lfs but I can't find anything like it on their site.

Also, how often should I be doing water changes until the parameters are corrected? Every other day?
 
#10 ·
My apologies for the mix-up! :)


At minimum, you want Seachem Equilibrium.


Or, shrimp specific, there are several brands.... some are liquid based, others are powders

Salty Shrimp Bee Shrimp Mineral GH+
Tantora Shrimp Series Mineral Liquid GH+ 60ml
MK-BREED Blue Diamond
Shirakura Liquid Mineral Ca+
SL-Aqua Blue Wizard (there's also a Red Wizard version - not sure which is best in your situation)
Shrimp Nature GH+
ShrimperNet GH+ MINERAL
ShrimpLab Cardidina Minerals GH+



If Petco doesn't have it (no surprise there!), and you don't have any other fish stores near you, you probably will need to order it online.


I would recommend doing water changes every 3 days or more often. Small ones though, like 5-10%. Once the tank is stabilized with correct parameters, then you can cut back to doing water changes every 1-4 times a month.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Stress Coat
Removes chlorine and chloramines (ammonia)
Contains aloe vera (slime coat)
Neutralizes heavy metals

AmQuel +
Detoxifies ammonia
Detoxifies chlorine
Detoxifies nitrites/nitrates
Detoxifies toxic pheromones


Both fight against ammonia, so that alone, you don't need to get Amquel+, unless they fight them differently... and there can be different kinds of ammonia... for other factors though, it might be worth getting. It doesn't actually remove ammonia though, just makes it harmless to inhabitants. It's still in the water, and can still be used by the bacteria.


I have Seachem Prime and Fluval Aqua+. Not sure which is better out of the two, other than the fact that the Aqua+ doesn't smell rancid! (Prime smells horrible - which is normal for this product)



I see most people recommend Seachem Prime actually (it's concentrated! re: below), but the Amquel+ should be basically the same product? Except, I haven't seen anything about Prime removing pheromones!

Prime - 1ml treats 10 gallons
Aqua+/Amquel+ - 5ml treats 10 gallons
 
#13 · (Edited)
Not sure if I need to make a new post for this, but in the established tank, I just moved my heater into the filter compartment. Today I just read that it's best to make holes in the air pump--is this widely recommended? I'm hesitant to put holes in something in case I mess up and need a replacement. Fluval Spec Flow Tube Modification
 
#16 ·
I've heard the stick on ones are inaccurate since ambient room temp and sunlight may change the temperature reading. One tank here does have one though, and it's reading at 78°. A digital thermometer (actually designed for food, not aquariums) is reading at 75°. Two different style mercury(?) ones are reading at 72/73°. A third style of mercury type appears to be reading about 78°...


Think I might need some more thermometers... lol
 
#21 · (Edited)
I ordered two, one for each tank.

For your Fluval, you might want to consider getting some extra foam to cover the holes or even stainless steel mesh. The adults might not go into the small openings, but babies probably would! (making foam better...)

If you went with stainless steel, you could look for something like this. I don't know if this is small enough that baby shrimp wouldn't go through, though...

Stainless Steel Mesh - Han Aquatics
You were right about the little shrimps getting into the filter, though I'm not sure how. I've kept the foam block raised enough to block off both entrances, but today when I was rinsing the foam into the cycling tank, a little dead diamond blue came off. Given that it's taken me a month to finally get these colored cherries in, and two have already died, this stinks. The only thing I can think of is that he went above the foam and the water got too low and he got trapped but I can't be certain, so I definitely need to get some 4 1/4" x 10 1/2" mesh.

How does this look? The mesh seems finer and I could cut it down to size. https://www.amazon.com/ASC-Stainles...5246877&sr=8-10&keywords=Stainless+Steel+Mesh
 
#23 · (Edited)
Shrimp emergency! Found one of my big berried shrimp dead. Carefully extracted her eggs from her, though having some trouble getting off the tiniest bits of their mum off them. I put them in a container of water from the established tank. They're a week away from hatching. Not sure whether to go with the container/swishing method or put them in a mesh bag and stick them in the tank. I don't have any pest snails (not anymore, I think the betta ate them) and the betta is separated, so they wouldn't have any predators in a mesh bag (that held the biomax rings to the new tank, has not been exposed to established tank yet, nor the ammonia added to the new tank. Definitely need advice, I'm at a fork in the road! I'd rather use the mesh bag than the container for the extra circulation.

After some research, it seems that to do it in-tank, I'd need an airstone, which I don't have. I'll try the instructions with using a container (http://www.planetinverts.com/Artifically Hatching Eggs.html)

I had an idea, though. As well as keeping them in a container (and doing water changes and spraying water on the eggs with a dropper, etc), what about keeping the container (it wouldn't fall over, it's wide but shallow) on top of the water in my established tank? It wouldn't provide circulation but it might keep the temperature up.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Currently my temperature is at 74. The only kind of mesh bag I have is this: http://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/fluval-spec-biomax-filter-media

Can't a bag like this end up crushing them?

Also, today one of my painted red's has been zooming around the tank. I'd think nothing of it if they were male (and if a female had just molted) but this is a female shrimp. For hours she'd zip around, calm down for a while, and then do it again. Even climbing up the corners of the aquarium toward the surface before continuing to swim around.

My latest water parameters are posted in the original post (the 25th of Jan). I'm also battling diotoms in my tank, it tries to coat my plants and glass.
 
#32 ·
Not sure how fine that is. I was thinking something like the bags they use for purigen or something.

Another option that I found is this: Artificially Hatching Eggs .:. Information on artificially hatching Freshwater Aquarium Shrimp Eggs
So I've been trying to think of various ways to help these shrimp eggs in a more reliable way than keeping them in a container and spraying them now and then with water from the established tank. It just seems riskier because it means between then, they're sitting in stagnant water. I don't have any fine mesh bags, and not sure where I could get one locally. Currently I have the pre-filter sponge off my intake valve because the betta is isolated from it for now, and because I was hoping it would push around the container holding the shrimp eggs a bit. I've noticed some of my taller plants swaying a little with the current. I want to get some opinions on the idea of trying to stick these eggs to a leaf, although I'm not sure the mucous binding them is as strong as it was the day I found them.
 
#30 ·
I tried to do the calculations on my own, and measured about 1/4 of the cup before mixing it in with my tap water and some stress coat before adding to the aquarium. I didn't do a GH test to it first but next time I will. Is there a way to more properly test for GH than test strips? My freshwater master test kit only tests pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

It's been less than 4 hours later; I tested the tank and the GH is still the same. These are my current parameters:

Water Parameters - 1/28/17
Nitrate: 40 ppm
Nitrite: 1 ppm
GH: 4.2
Chlorine: 1.0
KH: 4.48
pH: still between 7.2 and 7.8
Ammonia: 0
TDS: 311

I see some dead plant matter in my tank so I'm going to prune/pluck that.
 
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