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55 gallon Low Tech soil sub grow out tank (56K warning)

92K views 240 replies 54 participants last post by  tylergvolk 
#1 · (Edited)
The plan is to NOT fill this tank to display standards. Rather a nice place to grow out baby angels. Used tank, old lights, old HOB emperor 400 (reinstalling the bio wheels), power heads and UG filter.

DIY 'algae' kit for the back round. Using 3 green acrylic enamels and sponge painting the back glass. Installing the tank under a kitchen counter just above floor level. 3 1/2" above to be exact. Just enough the glass won't get hit sweeping the floor.


1st color just peppering the glass for shading. Using natural sponges.

Second color Heavy patting to dominate color.

Third coat completely covers the glass.










Until I get it flooded I wont know how the effect actually pulls off, may need four or five colors, maybe not. All the greens have umber in the mix which grays or to muddy the color dulling it. So the natural greens of the live plants should really stand out.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Things getting wet in the kitchen.

Well,,, finally made some progress last night. I was waiting on a Drs. web order that included UG filter plates that arrived Tuesday and now I’m not even using them LOL. (Maybe there is another tank in my future)
Started assembly Tuesday night with the on hand hardware but when I filled the tank and installed the Marineland Emperor Bio-wheel 400 it leaked water all over! The filter housing was cracked under the right return tray and back of the basket housing. Ugh!!! So no HOB! After toweling the floor and cleaning up my mess at 11:45 pm that filter box skipped across the back patio at a rather high rate of speed. (Picked up the pieces the following day)
So now I have changed my master plan yet again.
el natural, Diana Walstad type tank as of today. Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Mix 32 Qt. (dry) bag was $8.00 and I used nearly ½ the bag for a one inch layer. It’s full of organics as the name implies but no chemical ferts. Very little in the way of sticks or bark pieces in the bag I bought. Capped the soil with 2 bags of Flourite original as I like the color.
I dumped the idea of a pool filter sand layer over / under / between the substrates. Reading strings it can limit gas exchange, CO2 out and O2 into the biomass. Lighting changed also as >2wpg is recommended.
Lowes has hanging dual T8 48” 32watt fixtures, silver w/ black end caps for $29.00. I bought two and went with 2-6500K, 2-5000K bulbs labeled as daylight and sunshine.
GE daylight 32w, 2700 lumens, 6500K, cri 78
GE sunshine 32w, 2800 lumens, 5000K, cri 86
2.3 watts per gallon.
Lights are set 6 ½” above the tank covers as we plan on rooting terrestrial plants through the tank top as well as having floaters. Based on posts at the APC site to help control nutrient levels in the water and algae several folks have done it. (My wife liked that idea) No hardscape at this time and plan on jungle planting for the cycle. Plant list to follow when I’ve got time and actually get them planted.
A single power head will provide water circulation and a UV sterilizer will be installed.

On with the pictures!

Dirt pile and small amount of sticks


You can see the color difference between 5000K and 6500K


Used egg crate grill material to eliminate gravel creep along the glass




2 Bag 30lb. Flourite cap plus a 1/4 old bag from the last tank


Filler up!




Following day setting water GH and planting :thumbsup:
 
#5 ·
Weeds in

Clouded up a bit but no problem with the organics coming through. I was worried when I worked the root ball on the Echinodorus ‘Kliener Bar’ in at center tank. The leaves are small because of trimming but the roots were fairly large.
It's a pull from the living room tanks.

 
#7 ·
Please be sure to keep us up on your approach with this one. Does this mean you'll be growing Angels anytime soon??:) How are you cycling this tank? Be specific please. Thanks!!


It may mean something else as well but to me cycling is establishing nitrifying bacteria, good (non-sterilized) potting soil should have some. It just takes time for them to grow into the population you need in the tank. The soil I selected was mentioned several times on APC posts by Ms. Walstad.
It was well on its way to being fully mineralized. But still containing small organics it will be a source of minimal CO2 too. The dirt and plants will take a while to settle in and the ammonia that is produced is good food for nitrifying bacteria and the plants. I can accelerate the process by adding some and maintaining 5ppm as is recommended in a fishless cycle but haven’t decided too. If I leave it alone to do its thing it should be more stable. Doing a fishless cycle you add ammonia and maintain it at 5ppm until you read a nitrite indication and then drop back on the amount but continue to supply it.
It may take a few weeks or a month for the soil to settle in and convert to a submerged stable state of decay. During this time the nitrifying bacteria can grow and the plants are rooting and growing.
In this start up period the aquarium may not be a very good habitat for fish as it may not be stable.

To tell you all the whole truth,,,,,,, the reason I’ve decided to go this route is because having 5 or 6 tanks requiring nearly daily dosing and 50% weekly WC will burn me out. After a year keeping two (which isn’t bad) I know I don’t want to keep a ½ dozen this way. Life has too many other interests for me.
 
#8 ·
So using mineralized soil there's not a requirement to add ammonia? I've never cycled this way, or any way other than adding fish, or inverts in salt tanks, to begin a cycle. Still trying to wrap my hands around when I will have had a cycle in a planted tank if the plants take up the ammonia before "normal" nitrification cycle can begin. At what point will I know I can add fish, or more fish? Thanks for the info? Sorry to hijack with these questions. Tell me to go away if you like:help:.
 
#9 ·
go away

NO WAY! this is what forums are for. :thumbsup:
With plants in the tank and normal substrate you can add fish right away. (within reason) Plants help prevent ammonia and nitrites from building to hazardous levels. They actually prefer them to nitrate (NO3) because its easier for them to use it. I have decaying organic matter in the tank that could cause a rapid spike you don't.
Bacteria still build up just over a longer period with plants competing.
 
#12 ·
NO WAY! this is what forums are for. :thumbsup:
With plants in the tank and normal substrate you can add fish right away. (within reason) Plants help prevent ammonia and nitrites from building to hazardous levels. They actually prefer them to nitrate (NO3) because its easier for them to use it. I have decaying organic matter in the tank that could cause a rapid spike you don't.
Bacteria still build up just over a longer period with plants competing.
So, do you think it's safe to add a school of fish after the plants are in? I've done a lot of reading about this but there didn't seem to be a real theme that everyone agreed on. I plan to have a school of 15-20 Rummynose Tetras. How many would you add initially once planted? Thanks Mike!!
 
#10 ·
Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Soil IS NOT mineralized soil, it has organics present (fine mulch). It will finish the process of mineralization in the tank, decaying under the gravel. That's why its not stable right away. Mineralization IMO is a fancy word for rot. Dry it rots slower, once submerged the chemical decomposition rate will change and then stabilize again at a new rate. Ammonia spikes could kill fish rapidly in my tank if the gas trapped, built up and released. I don't think it happens often but can.

I don't have Ms. Walstad's book yet but plan on purchasing one. I've read on the internet on the subject gathering what I can from others and also know what I've seen in southern swamps regarding organic break down. It won't be too different in the tank just more contained. As our environmental specialists at work are so fond of saying 'the solution to pollution is dilution' its contained in the tank so I'm being careful.
 
#11 ·
Tank @ 48hrs.

I set the R O water using Grumpy's GH booster @ 6dGH and baking soda @ 3dKH. Adding a standard 55g dose of CSM+B, Fe dosed to .6ppm, 20ml excel on 4/03/09
Testing today 10dGH, 3dKH, PO4 2ppm, Ammonia 0.0-.25 minimum color change.
Nitrite and nitrate I expected zero readings and tested just that.

Starting plants are chain swords, Kliener bar sword, crypt wendtii reds, repoens, Bacopa colorata, water sprite and narrow leaf sag.

I'm thinking about dosing NO3 and K2SO4 or leaf zone to help bridge the plants.
Water is still slightly cloudy. The only filtration is a power head feeding an eheim spray bar to break up the flow with an old sponge on the intake.





 
#13 ·
Oh, and the tank looks good!! Is it under a counter of some kind. Good diea using that kind of space for a tank. I'm negotiating with the wife where to put up a 20 for a QT tank. Can't imagine she'll let me use the kitchen :).
 
#17 · (Edited)
Trouble Maker



Hey Tim, what are you a trouble maker?
Like they need an excuse,,, my rabbit fish are at it again. This is today, right now, in the office low tech. I probably should start a journal for each flipping tank. :icon_redf







I've pulled black b@t#h and am currently dripping from the kitchen tank into a 5g bucket with her in it. Now I'll have to watch the water daily as I'm jump starting the stocking. At least I've got a good supply of usable water with the R O system holding 105 gallons ready to go at 78 degrees.
 
#18 ·
They laid on your magnet? Give them horny little Angels some egg laying surfaces man.:hihi: At least it will be easy to pull them out.:thumbsup: I'm with the trouble maker, you're just shy of some babies in that tank.
 
#23 ·
eggs

Hey Tim,
We went to dinner at a friends house tonight and just returned, 11:45PM. Spawn is intact because we removed Blackie this afternoon before leaving so its now only four angels in the tank with the parents being the two largest. We will leave the eggs in place and allow the hatch to occur if it's fertile and go from there. Three days after filling the soil sub tank has a fish in it.
 
#26 ·
DIY of sorts and stocking

Using a power head as the sole filtration / circulation method and wanting to collect debris I thought about sponge filters but the Penguin 1140 has a cone shaped intake for UG tubes. With the soil sub I nixed the UG plates.
The 1140 pushes enough water for white water rafting too. :icon_eek:
Filter floss and zip straps! :icon_idea Fits the low tech theme right? Cut a 6 1/2" strip long enough for 1 1/2 wraps and ta da!
Curbed the output fire nozzle like flow using extra spray bar and suction tube parts by drilling the suction sections and mounted four pieces on the discharge. The resulting spray bar flow is much more angel fish friendly being spread out. When fry are added young the larger surface area of the intake won't hold any swimming too close either :thumbsup:



The last section creates good center tank surface ripple.


Company for 'BB' in the form of a young DD super veil that's been in quarantine since 1/19/09


I really like the sponge painted back round now that the tank is planted too.
It blends but being dull highlights plant color the way I had hoped.


 
#28 ·
Changes happening quickly

Too many tanks at the moment with everything changing!
Water is already showing NO2 (nitrite) at 7 days wet.

Here's the track on my first soil sub tank so far.
Filled 4/29/09, 4/30/09 water set at 6dGH with Rex Griggs grumpy mix and KH with baking soda to 3dKH then planted. Decided to bridge the plants from my high light injected tanks with some ferts.= CSM+B, Excel 20mL, Fe .6ppm, Nutrifin Cycle 40mL. Right or wrong made the additions, I'll see how it goes.
5/1/09 more plants.
5/2/09 Due to breeding activities and egg eating behavior an Angel was moved into this tank so first fish in. 10dGH (hardness climbed 4dGH), 3dKH, pH 7.0, NH4 (ammonia) <.25, NO2 (nitrite) 0.0, NO3 (nitrate) 0.0, PO4 (phosphate) <2ppm. Dose NO3 17.3ppm, Leaf Zone 20mL.
5/3/09 30g WC, 2dKH, 2dGH. Reset water to 6dGH, 3dKH, Fe .6ppm, NO3 16ppm, CSM+B, Nutrifin Cycle 30mL. Add 15 grass shrimp, Medium DD B angel. Add a small air driven sponge filter.
5/4/09 NH4 <.25ppm, NO2 0.0, NO3 15ppm
5/5/09 NH4 >.50ppm, NO2 0.0 (WC on living room tank and no time for this one as its 11:30pm) Remove Medium DD B angel.
5/6/09 NH4 <.50 (dropped), NO2 <.25 (reading)
40g WC 4dGH, 2.5dKH, NO3 <10ppm, NH4 <.25, NO2 <.25
Reset water to 6dGH, 3dKH eliminated fert. dosing but added Nutrifin Cycle 40mL.

Bacopa stems have grown 1 1/2 - 2" and produced 3-4 leaf sets per stem. The other plants look OK with minor new growth. Added more java moss. Introduced duck weed and terrestrial plants, 2 Ivy stems and a green spider are draping roots into the water by the power head.






 
#30 ·
Update today on the settling in water issues. NO2 (nitrites) are here big time today! Tested the tank getting home from work and NO2 was >1.0ppm.
35g WC, 5 minute pump run and NO2 >.25 but not by much.
35g WC and it tested zero. Reset to 6dGH, 3dKH so now wait and see how fast it climbs again.
I've not been able to find any info on threshold limits for readings on NO2 or NH3 / NH+4 that are allowable with fish so my R O unit is on OT.
 
#31 ·
Save a fish

Went to Wallie World today as they had received an ammo shipment and had 30-06, 38 specials and 12ga. high brass loads. Bought my limit of 6 boxes per customer and as I was heading out the door passed the pet department.
In a tank staving to death and surrounded by ugly guppies was an abused blushing veil angel. Same fish that was there the last ammo run. I pointed it out to the wife at the time showing her the squared tail and short ventral fins damaged in shipping. I said to her if it lives a week it will be a lucky fish. Well it lived a week so I bought it.


If it can live a week at Walmart it will live in my Walstad style tank though the start up cycle :thumbsup: At least I test the water daily and feed bread to my prisoners once a week.

 
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