Rotala Deficiency with pics - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-03-2014, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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Rotala Deficiency with pics

I bought some rotala rotundifolia from Aquafora which cell cultured or immerse grow. After 3 weeks after planted, the leaves have a lot of black marks mostly on the top of the plant. Can someone tell me what is wrong by just look at the plant without knowing the parameter of water first?

Initial plant:
Attachment 254265
Attachment 254281
Attachment 254289

After 10 days:
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Attachment 254313
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After 20 days:
Attachment 254345
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Attachment 254361

Last edited by mheat; 12-28-2014 at 07:04 PM.
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-03-2014, 07:43 PM
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I'm finding it very difficult to see the black marks you are talking about?

I see the Rotala has rippled new leaves which is associated with a lack of calcium.

You posted 3 identical pictures of the Rotala, so I don't see the progression over 20 days.

Can you take a close up photo of the damaged new growth (on the Rotala)? As close up, in focus and high detail as possible. A picture of the lower leaves would also help.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-03-2014, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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I just fixed the pictures. I hope I get some help. Here I post 2 more pictures for my blyxa japonica and anubias barteri var nana petti. They are planted 20 days ago as the rotala.

Attachment 254369
Attachment 254377

Last edited by mheat; 09-08-2014 at 04:51 PM.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-03-2014, 10:11 PM
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In the last photo of the first post is it the lines that go across the older leaves?

It looks like the leaves got damaged during shipping. There were probably bounced and and crushed a bit. The plant seams to be growing out of it.
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-04-2014, 02:20 AM Thread Starter
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Here I took a few pictures today. The tip looks okay. Below the tip, leaves are curved/banded with black marks.

Attachment 254649

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Last edited by mheat; 09-08-2014 at 04:51 PM.
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-04-2014, 08:08 AM
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If it were a deficiency it would have to be a deficiency of an immobile element since the damage is in the new growth only.

Immobile nutrients are: Ca, Fe, B, and Mn

A deficiency in any of these would not show black lines like that as far as I know. The lines look like crease lines and are more likely to be from mechanical damage. Plus you have aquasoil which makes deficiencies unlikely.

Perhaps the plants are being buffeted around in the filter return current and damaged that way?

Do you have access to test kits? What is your GH//Calcium level? If you don't, you can take a water sample to the local fish shop and have them test it for you for free.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-05-2014, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
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I don't know how can it be mechanically damaged for those leaves. My gH is 6 by adding Seachem Equilibrium on each water change. Tested by using API gH kit. A few days ago, I start adding Calcium. The white powder is Ca and I dilute it into a 300g bottle. I add 3ml every 2nd day. I don't have Ca kit. I just it some by guessing.

If it is not deficiency. Does it possibly cause by light. I am using ADA LED Aquasky light.

Attachment 255145

Last edited by mheat; 09-08-2014 at 04:51 PM.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-05-2014, 09:42 AM
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The symptoms are not consistent with nutrient deficiencies or lighting issues. Those show up as blotches of dead and discolored tissue not straight crease lines. Crease lines are from mechanical damage.

I don't know how it looks in person but it seems the damage is occurring in tall plants in a straight line from the tip of the silver powerhead. Was the power head moved recently? It seems the newest leaves are not being damaged any longer, but the older ones were. I'd estimate about 2-3 days before this photo was taken.

Another point of evidence supporting the powerhead idea is that you only see the lines in tall plants that are in the area of the current. You don't see it in the lower plants, or in the stiff leafed ones.

The test is easy. Move the powerhead or exchange it for a smaller less powerful one. The calcium you added just now won't make a difference since it is not calcium deficiency. You'd see it in more than just the rotala if it was and the symptoms are deformed new growth only, not deformed middle/old growth. Furthermore, you are already adding Calcium in your GH booster so it can't be that.

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-05-2014, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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The silver power header is ADA Vuppa-I surface screamer. The current is pretty strong in my 5G tank. But I never think it can damage the leaves. Now I move to the front left corner, and turn the AC30 filter to slowest speed. Wait for 2-3 weeks and see what next. Looks like plants at the back corner with least or none damage leaves.

Attachment 255385

Rotala on the left side corner

Attachment 255369

Rotala on the right corner

Attachment 255377

Last edited by mheat; 09-08-2014 at 04:51 PM.
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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There is a link here other people have the same problem as I got. Any idea?

http://www.aquariumlife.com.au/archi...p/t-7893.html?
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 05:35 PM
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Good that you moved the skimmer, we'll see in a week or so if the new leaves keep developing creases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mheat View Post
There is a link here other people have the same problem as I got. Any idea?

http://www.aquariumlife.com.au/archi...p/t-7893.html?
People often blame nutrients for strange plant symptoms. I've often had people swear that their plants have potassium deficiency when in fact it was their pleco eating holes in the leaves.

These are the nutrients plants need:
  • Immobile nutrients are: Ca, Fe, B, and Mn (signs show up in new growth)
  • Mobile nutrients are: N, P, K, and Mg. (signs show up in old growth 1st)
  • Variably mobile nutrients: Cu, Zn, S, and Mo. (signs show up mostly in old, but can also show up in new growth, or both).

Looking at the position of your damage - in the middle of the plant - you'd have to agree that this isn't exactly new or the oldest growth. So we can rule out all immobile elements (Ca, Fe, B, and Mn) since new growth would show up with troubles and new growth isn't affected in your tank. That leaves mobile nutrients and variably mobile nutrients.

Mobile nutrients are all out of the question because the symptoms of those are very well known and your plants completely don't match at all. That leaves us with variably mobile nutrients Cu, Zn, S, Mo which the symptoms don't match either. All of these variably mobile nutrients show dead spots or patches of leaves in various locations, not lines. In addition, these nutrients are needed in such tiny quantities that it seems extremely unlikely that anyone would ever see a deficiency of any of these nutrients. Using aquasoil in your tank makes it especially unlikely that you have a micro deficiency since aquasoil has all the micros in it already.

This leaves us with the final conclusion that it is not and cannot be a nutrient deficiency.

From the link you posted above:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenkatydid
i have indeed experienced this, and it went away when i increased trace dosing. i don't know what caused it, but it was something in there
Just because other people recommended adding micros doesn't mean it will work. Better to look into the existing research and see what symptoms match your problem eliminate everything you can like we did above, then look for other reasons that could cause the problems you have (mechanical damage).

Anyway, do post an update in a week or so and let us know if moving the skimmer helped. I would try change only one thing at once, so don't follow other people's advice until you have eliminated the possibility that it was the skimmer damaging the plants. If you try many different solutions at once, you'll never know what actually fixed the problem.
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 10:58 PM
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Looks like mechanical damage to me. Possibly from shipping. I wouldn't worry about it personally. Keep an eye on it to see if it gets worse. That's my suggestion.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
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I trim off stem with crease mark leaves (most of them), and now wait for 1-2 weeks to see what happen. The water flow of my AC30 is at medium now because I have some Blue Green Algae showing up at the front glass and just under the ADA soil.

Attachment 255929

Here is my fertilizer dosing:
1ml ADA Brighty K daily
1ml ADA Green Brighty Step 2 daily
1ml pfertz Nitrogen 1-2 time weekly
0.3ml Seachem Phosphate 1-2 time weekly
2 drops ADA ECA (Iron) twice a week
3/4 teaspoon Seachem Equilibrium daily to maintain 6gH
1/8 teaspoon Seachem Alkaline Buffer to maintain 4kH
CO2 1 BPS 1 hours before light on, and 1 hr before light off, ADA drop checker light green at 30 ppm
Light on 7 hours every day.
Temp: 76F
Water Change: 40% on Wed & 50% on Sun

Water tested by API test kits:
pH: 7.6 (in the morning before CO2 injection)
pH: 6.8 (at middle of photo period with CO2 on)
gH: 6
kH: 4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20-40ppm
Phosphate: 0.25ppm

Fish: 7 Emerald tetra, 2 Oto
Shrimp: 4 Amano, 2 Yellow
Feed every 2nd day

Last edited by mheat; 09-08-2014 at 04:51 PM.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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Correction:

3/4 teaspoon Seachem Equilibrium at water change maintain 6gH
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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My pH swing a lot which almost 1 degree during the day with and without CO2 injection. Does it also affect the rotala?
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