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I need some help with my green water - long

2K views 12 replies 3 participants last post by  lgerold 
#1 ·
Hi!

I jumped into this fish hobby about a year ago after a 15 year hiatus. Of course, if you knew me, you'd know that I don't do anything part way, so our house has become quite fishy, with a tank in each kids bedroom, two tanks in our bedroom, four tanks in the living room, and 2 in my office too! :)

The living area tanks include 2 55 gallon planted tanks of very fancy goldfish, a 125 gallon tank of very fancy goldfish, and a 55 gallon tank of tropicals. The goldfish tanks are planted with wisteria, assorted swords, assorted anubias, and assosrted java moss. These tanks do quite well. We did just recently add compact lighting which I must say REALLY DRAMITICALLY increase the beauty of these fish, and the plants too. The plants are growing incredibly now. The 55 gallon tropical tank is stocked with assorted tetras, barbs, pearl gouramis, and angel fish. This tank is doing nicely too. These four tanks have gravel substrate, with laterite mixed in, and all have undergravel filtration along with a canister filter. All the tanks have CO2 added with DIY system.

OK - So about three months ago, I was intriqued by the ideas of Diane Walsted in her book, using soil substrate, and gravel, in a rather modestly equipped aquarium. I put together a 29 gallon tank, with 130 watts of light, soil substrate from the yard, topped with gravel, a HOB filter for water movement, heater, DIY CO2, lots of plants, and a decent load of fish. I was pleased to have the plants grow beautifully from day one, no apparent cycling occurred, and other than some MINOR cloudiness for the first few weeks, I'd say the "experiment" has been a complete success. Son Charles thinks so too.

So, I decide that I'd love a 20 gallon long in my bedroom, to watch as I attempt to drift off to sleep. What could possibly be more relaxing?

So, I beg my hubby to go dig up some of the now almost frozen tundra in our yard, and put together a very similar tank to the tank above. To my dismay, I have been plagued from the beginning with cloudy water, and this time, the water is a lovely shade of florescent green. OK, I suppose it's only florescent due to the pc lights.

Here are the specific water and tank parameters:

It's a 20 gallon long tank.
110 watts 2700K light - 13 hours daily
DIY CO2
1 1/2 inches of soil substrate - basically black dirt with small pieces of clay
1 inch small gravel
Filter is an internal filter with heater combined. No carbon.
Lots of plants - red lotus, water sprite, bacopa carolini, cabomba, pennywort, dwarf sag, corksrew sag, mayaca, and rosefolia, and some others too
Live creatures: striated loach, snails, butterfly loach, 2 dwarf gouramis, 5 black skirt tetras, 4 tetras of some kind (cant remember the name!) 1 catfish, 4 otos. Fish seem to be doing very well, though I lost three of the gouramis this week!

I have not been fertilizing. The plants are growing explosively. No trouble at all with algea ON plants. Slight buildup of algae on glass, which I can manage fine. Water is like pea soup! I've been doing water changes of 75% (I know, that's hard on the fish) Seems tolerably clear after a water change, but you can see the green return within a day.

Water does not smell.
No ammonia
No nitrites
far less than 20 ppm nitrates
PH - 7.0-7.2
KH 120 ppm
GH 150 ppm

Can anyone give me some help?

Thanks in advance!

Lucy
 
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#2 ·
I really hate that book.

Drop the light from 13 hours to either 10 or 11, change the bulbs to something that has a Kelvin rating closer to 6500. Stop changing the water everyday, don't change it again until we clear the green water or two weeks which ever comes first. Increase the amount of CO2 being added to the tank, til the pH drops to 6.8. Add a fert that has some nitrate and potassium in it to get your nitrate reading to 10 ppm.

Be patient, there is something (probably phosphorus) in the soil you used that is feeding the green water. You have to balance the nutrients and that means letting the water stabilize and getting the plants you have into the equation. The Green water will persist until the excessive nutrient is used up and the plants can successfully out compete the GW.
 
#3 ·
Hi!

I appreciate your advice. I see that I didn't mention how often I'm changing the water - once every week.

Are there certain plants that will gobble up the phosphorus better than others? The plants are really growing furiously so it can't take too long to use up the excess nutrient :)

Thanks!

Lucy
 
#4 ·
The plants you have should do the trick. I had read your post as changing 75% of the water daily for some reason. Anyhow, skip this week.
 
#6 ·
Hi!

You certainly are right about that. I figured I'd need to fertilize some and do water changes, with the addition of the better light.

I do wonder about Sean's comment about cutting the lighting time down. Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the light the same so that the algea would use up the extra nutrient more quickly?

Just wondering...

Lucy
 
#7 ·
Rex Grigg said:
SCMurphy,

I guess you and I are members of the same club in regards to "that" book. I might note that the Walstead method doesn't use high amounts of light and 110 watts of light over a 20 long is much more light than many people would attempt.
I promise not to let it go to my head that we agreed on something, Rex. 8)


lgerold said:
Hi!

You certainly are right about that. I figured I'd need to fertilize some and do water changes, with the addition of the better light.

I do wonder about Sean's comment about cutting the lighting time down. Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the light the same so that the algea would use up the extra nutrient more quickly?

Just wondering...

Lucy
You can try what I suggested or not, I only offered a little help. But, if you do as I suggest you have to do all of it or it won't help. I'm good at making one of my tanks turn green, then getting it to clear. It's a little hobby of mine. :wink:
 
#8 ·
Hi!

I'm already on your advice, Sean. I hope you didn't think I was being critical, just trying to understand the science behind this problem.

Last night, I added some Kent Freshwater Pro-Plant, which has Nitrogen. I don't have a fertilizer with Potassium too. .... Yet.

I had already done the 75% water change before I wrote the letter, so we're only a day into it.

I'll be adding a 2nd CO2 bottle later today.

I do really appreciate your help. This tank is so pretty when you can see the plants and the fish. :shock:

I'll add a picture soon, hopefully before and after the green strikes...

Lucy
 
#10 ·
Rex Grigg said:
Igerold,

You are really mixing techniques here. Soil substrates, high light, water column fertilization, and CO2.
I make this work just fine, call it a wetlands approach.
 
#11 ·
Igerold,

You are really mixing techniques here. Soil substrates, high light, water column fertilization, and CO2.


Well, while I liked the idea of low maintenance with the Walsted technique, lower light, etc. , I do like the looks of some of the plants with higher light needs. I can't see why a combined approach wouldn't work just fine. The fish are so much prettier too, under more light.

I sure see better growth and healthier leaves and stalks on these two tanks with the soil substrate. The plants in the tanks with the gravel/laterite base have more fragile leaves and stalks (at least on the faster growing species.) I'm now just beginning to toy with dry ferts, so hopefully, we'll begin to see stronger plants in these tanks. In the past, I have been using liquid fertilizers, which have been quite expensive for the large number of tanks.

I do wonder though, what minerals etc would be found in soil, that won't be replenished with the dry fert dosings. As an analogy, we humans take vitamin and mineral supplements, but we know that getting these nutrients from real foods is much healthier, because all the nutrients in these real foods have not yet been discovered.

I've just received my order of dry ferts from PlantGeek.net Including K2SO4, (Hey, I do have Potassium!) KH2PO4, KNO3, and the trace minerals. I sat down this afternoon with Chuck's Fertilizer Calculator, and I think (MAYBE) that I have an understanding of what I'll need to do for each tank.

Could some of you folks recommend some good testing products? I have been using Jungle Labs, 5 in 1 Test Strips, to test for Nitrate, Nitrite, GH, KH, and PH. I see now that I'll need some testing products for Phospates and Potassium too. I have to wonder about the accuracy of the product too, but my basic reason for using the 5 in 1 product is that it gives such a quick result on the nitrate test. With goldfish tanks, nitrates build up to a pretty high level quite quickly.

Along that line of thought, it's not uncommon for the goldfish tanks to be running Nitrate levels from 40 to 80+ ppm (before a water change.) What kind of effects will that have on the needs of Potassium and Phosphorus? How do I attempt to get a "balance" with such a high Nitrate level? Remember that these Goldfish tanks are NOT the tanks with the green water. Water is crystal clear, fish happy and active, plants growing well, but not as sturdy as they could be (yes, added CO2).

Hmm! More questions than I originally had! :?

Lucy
 
#13 ·
Along that line of thought, it's not uncommon for the goldfish tanks to be running Nitrate levels from 40 to 80+ ppm (before a water change.) What kind of effects will that have on the needs of Potassium and Phosphorus? How do I attempt to get a "balance" with such a high Nitrate level? Remember that these Goldfish tanks are NOT the tanks with the green water. Water is crystal clear, fish happy and active, plants growing well, but not as sturdy as they could be (yes, added CO2).
Quickie Question - I do have a product called Poly Filter, by Poly-Bio-Marine Inc. The filter is supposed to remove harmful organics, toxic ammonia, heavy metals, and ALL FORMS OF PHOSPHATES, as well as medications after treatment.

Would this be a good idea to insert into my filter?
 
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