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Rob's adventure converting to planted tank

6K views 43 replies 9 participants last post by  rininger85 
#1 ·
Hello,
I'm trying to do some research before diving head first in to converting my FW tank to a planted tank. A little background info, I started with a 10 gallon tank about a year ago and initially I just caught some small fish in the creek next to my house and put them in it. I had a small channel catfish (about 3-4") and several shiners in it until the catfish started eating all of the shiners so I got rid of the catfish and put more shiners in that I caught in a minnow net in the river. I added a couple crayfish and then noticed the crayfish were eating shiners too if they could catch them... so I ended up emptying everything out of my tank and it sat empty for a month or two (still running) until my dad was visiting and gave me a hard time about having a fish tank with nothing in it... so I went to the store and bought some fancy guppies to put in it. Back in about April of this year they guppies had been breeding and overpopulating the tank like crazy so I decided to upgrade to a bigger tank.

I bought a 55 gallon tank and stand from a guy on craigslist and he had an angel fish that he gave me with it, tank had been set up and cycled before I bought it, but looking back I wish I had got rid of the angel and broke the tank down completely and scrubbed it out good because he let it get out of control with thick algae growing in it. I washed it out the best I could but I had left the stone and a couple inches of water in it and looking back it has caused me a lot of grief fighting algae since then, but I think I have it under control (although my phosphates are still really high).

I've since set my 10 gallon tank back up and have it running as a nano reef tank that I'm slowly adding corals to and have a yellow watchman goby, tiger pistol shrimp, and a peppermint shrimp in. But I'm not here for advice on that so back to the 55 gallon FW tank...

-55 gallon tank
-Penguin 200 HOB filter w/bio wheel (currently no filter media in it, but I did just buy a new carbon filter to toss in after water changes, probably undersized for the tank but I mostly use it just for water flow)
-currently running an airstone in it, but don't plan on using it long term - thought about buying a powerhead to add more flow to the tank and surface disruption...
-Hydor theo 300W heater set so tank is normally 74F (although looking now its up to 77F)
-4 ft T12 (I think its T12 anyhow) light - not sure exactly what it is, was included with the tank when I bought it
-0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 20 nitrate, 10+ phosphate (API test kit)
-Stock consists of (3) cory cats, (2) dalmation mollies, (2) silver mollies, (1) tetra of some kind (just added yesterday that was given to me), (1) betta (also given to me yesterday), and a bunch of fancy guppies in all different stages of life, (1) Chinese algae eater, as well as someplace between (6 - 12) ghost shrimp (started with 12 but I know a couple died that I took out and others might have died and been eaten by the other shrimp, I can only ever count about 6 at a time but others could be hiding elsewhere) and a bunch of snails that hitchhiked in from my previous attempt at adding some plants and have now reproduced in to large quantities (not plague like proportions yet, but they do a good job of keeping most algae under control so I haven't attempted removing them yet, but I know some do get sucked out every time I siphon the gravel...

Now on to the problem... I currently have several fake plants for cover as well as a little tiki hut and a shipwreck. My fiancé hates the look of the tank currently with the fake stuff in it and wants me to make it more natural looking... we scavenged the beach and found some driftwood which I brought home and let it dry out, and now have it soaking in totes and a trash barrel for the past week or two, keep changing the water to try and get all the tannins out. I haven't decided what pieces to use yet but will see how it all looks once its done soaking. We also gathered a bunch of bigger rocks (not huge, but stuff that I could make some rock piles out of) out of the creek that I need to scrub off still.

So now I need to start researching what I need to do to convert my FW tank to a planted tank. I'm thinking I am going to remove my gravel because its pinkish rocks that don't look very natural and replace them with something better for a planted tank, any suggestions?

I plan on replacing the T12 light with a grow light (think I saw Wal-Mart carried them, or I have a Petco, Petsmart, or last resort due to highest price on lights would be Preuss Pets in Lansing) - anything specific I need to consider?

What else do I need to do to prepare for a successful planted tank? I think once I gather everything up to do it I would probably remove the gravel from my tank then siphon everything out good, leaving enough water so I don't have to transfer my fish out, then put the new substrate in (might need to do it in phases so I don't get rid of all of my bacteria, although I do have the biowheel in my filter (not sure if it really houses the bacteria it claims to or not?).

Other suggestions?
 

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#2 ·
another note - I currently do a weekly water change where I change anywhere from 5 to 10 gallons or more depending on how much detritus is coming out as I siphon the rocks. I purchased a spectrapure 90gpd refurb RO/DI filter and have been using the RO/DI water for the past month and have started having a few guppies die lately (haven't been too concerned since I have plenty of guppies), but just started reading that maybe RO water (let alone DI) isn't good for FW tanks? What is everyones take on that? Is RO/DI ok? Should I use RO instead? I have really hard well water so battled algae when I originally started my tank with tap water so really don't want to go back to that... do I need to add something to the water to condition it for FW fish?
 
#3 ·
I think you'll be happier if you get the fish out of the tank before you start changing out the gravel. Most likely the gravel will be a murky mess once you start stirring things up. To me it would be easier knowing the fish were out of the way. I can't answer about what's killing your guppies. There won't be any nutrients in your RO water but I wouldn't think it would be harmful in itself. Worst case would be you would need to dose the trace minerals and nutrients that would normally be available in tap water.
Rodney
 
#4 ·
I'm thinking I would go with either the eco-complete or fluorite substrate. I could probably switch my existing trash can that I store water in to RO (since its 36 gallons, and if I quit using RO/DI for my FW tank then my SW tank would only need 1-2 gallons of RO/DI a week... could go with a smaller holding tank for it and make my 36 gal trash can an RO holding tank instead). This would possibly allow for a little more nutrients in the water... and I've heard mixed thoughts on drinking RO/DI water (which we are currently drinking since I set up the unit a month or so ago..), so that would let us drink the RO instead of the DI...

but I could pick up some replenish too since it might be easier...
 
#5 ·
so is it as simple as that? Add a good substrate for growing plants, add plants, add CO2 if you want better growth? That's all there is to it? I've been reading and learning how to set up my reef tank successfully for months... I would expect a little more to it than that for a planted tank too... maybe that's just because I failed when I added aponogeton (sp?) bulbs to my first tank, they grew for a while then died... but I had just regular gravel and stock lighting...
 
#6 ·
You also need the right amount of lighting in proportion to nutrients and CO2. if you are looking at doing a low tech/lower maintenance tank then you need low-moderate lighting. If you are looking at doing a high tech/higher maintenance tank then you need moderate-high lighting and CO2 and fertilizer. Also, before you buy plants, research them and find out what lighting they require (especially pay attention to the lighting requirements because, while a low light plant can usually live in high light, a high light plant will probably die in low light) as well as their preferred water parameters and temperature. If you can accommodate these demands, the plants will grow better. I hope that helps :) good luck
 
#7 ·
I have a 55 gallon tank, and I only use R/O water. I also treat it with ferts

My thought process, and I've had this discussion with others. If you have good water/bio in your tank. You are adding blank slate water to be molded by the bio in your tank. I do my water changes on Sunday mornings. I test my water before, after and 2 days later.

looking at my numbers over the last 4 weeks

Ph: 7.6
high ph: 8.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 10

This week my high ph went down to 7.6, but I had to do some major water changes because of the heat. I do 15 gallons weekly on the 55. R/O is the best thing you can do, if done right.
 
#8 ·
OK thanks to you both, I don't really plan on going too fancy or anything, I'm looking to just get some normal seaweed type stuff and a little bit of variety but nothing major... I ordered 60lbs of eco-complete today because I went to 3 LFS yesterday and none of them had it, petsmart had fluorite but only 30lbs of it...

I'm glad to hear your take on R/O italion, eventually I want to try the DIY CO2 wine that I saw on here, so I'll add CO2 and will do some more reading about what kind of fert to get... the fertilizer doesn't have an impact on the fish you can keep? I'm assuming you have to get a special fert with no phosphates in it?
 
#34 · (Edited)
I'm assuming you have to get a special fert with no phosphates in it?
I have phosphates in my tap water. It seems to help my ferns to grow. Unfortunately at times it promotes algae too. Everything is a matter of balance. You may go through some plants and fish before you aquire a balance. My favorite fert is a dry form from select aquatics. You dilute it with water thus it last a long time

Probably to late now but there is a good product from Dr Fosters to start bacteria, Microbe-Lift Bacterial Aquarium Balancer by Ecological Labs
 
#9 ·
I received my eco-complete today. I had checked before I left work to see if UPS showed it as delivered, so then I ran to Lansing and picked up some plants and then came home and started working on the upgrade... I brought a 36 gallon trash can inside and siphoned water from my tank to the trashcan, I moved all of my fake plants and decorations in to the trashcan with a heater and airstone while I was working on the upgrade.

Then I scooped all of the fish out and put them in the trashcan as well, and then removed the pink rock substrate that was in the tank, followed by siphoning out anything I could to get the tank as clean as possible. I picked out as many of the snails as I could find left in the tank and had the water down to about an inch or two, then I dumped in my 3 bags of eco-complete. My initial thought was that I wished I had bought a fourth bag, 3 bags (60lbs) seems OK, but 4 bags (80lbs) probably would have been better...

Then I went out and sorted through the driftwood that I had been soaking. I had pulled this all out Wednesday last week anticipating that I would be adding it, so wanted to get a good look at it when it wasn't completely soaked - MISTAKE! We'll get to that shortly...

I decided on one big piece as a center piece, then two smaller pieces that were kind of neat looking to set on either side of the big piece. I placed them in my tank where I wanted them, then put a little water back in so there was 4-5"... then I started planting my plants... I have about 15 or 16 pieces of water wisteria that I planted in the back corners of the tank, then I had a couple bunches of frill plant that I planted at the back towards the center of the tank, I bought an amazon sword that I planted in the middle of the tank to the left of the center piece and it had a little shoot growing off of it that had roots growing so I plucked it off and planted it in the middle center of the tank underneath the center piece... then I had a couple bunches of java fern that the guy at petsmart told me not to stick in the dirt or it wouldn't grow, so I attached one bunch each to the small piece of driftwood on both the left and right sides of the tank...

I started filling the water back up and then realized that the driftwood had dried out too much and is now floating... so I tried setting rocks on top of the small pieces, then filled more water and it floated up from under the rocks... so I tied rocks to the small pieces and then set more rocks on top of them and continued filling my tank, get almost to the top and then the big center piece started to float =( FAIL!

So now I have my little tiki hut propped on the piece of driftwood in the center and RH side, and my shipwreck on the center and LH pieces, and a big rock on the center piece and top of the tiki hut, and its still not sitting on the substrate... so I'm hoping that its not going to all come crashing down whenever the driftwood gets fully saturated... my tank looks like a disaster right now... I'll post a picture tomorrow at work, and hopefully in a couple days it will be saturated enough that I can take the extra stuff out and take a nice picture of the tank how I planted it....
 
#11 ·
Sorry about your driftwood, OTOH it's not every tank that has a treehouse in it.:icon_bigg
Don't worry, it does get better. Worst case would be to remove the driftwood, attach it to some slate tiles and re-install it. Given the driftwood is wet I woud drill the tiles and screw the wood to them. You can drill the slate either with a masonry bit or they sell glass and tile drilling bits that work by friction if you prefer. Money is about the same IIRC. Kind of a pain so soon after tearing the tank down once, but it may be worth it.
Rodney
 
#12 ·
here are two pics, the one shows the driftwood before I started filling the tank back up, the other is the mess that I have with the shipwreck and tiki hut and rocks sitting on top. I did end up adding some fishing line to hold the rock and tiki hut in case the driftwood does sink.

I placed all of my fake plants back in the tank too, figuring there was bacteria build up on them that would hopefully keep my tank from kicking off another cycle, so I'll remove them once the tank has been set up like this for a couple weeks... hopefully my driftwood will sink before then because having all the extra stuff in there is blocking light from my plants. My tank does look a lot better now, even with all the extra crap in it... before it seemed kind of empty...

I won't have a chance to play around with it much tonight because I'm going scuba diving after work, but tomorrow I'll be back trying to get it situated better...
 

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#14 ·
well I'm hoping the driftwood stays down, I might have to try the slate suggestion this weekend. I am kind of waiting for that so I can take the extra stuff out and see what the tank is going to actually look like, then might need to add more light later... hoping that the plants will be OK in the meantime.

I tested my tank when I got home tonight and have a little ammonia and nitrite spike... (both about 0.25ppm) argh! I had a bottle of ammo-lock that I put some of that in and had some Pro-Z, Zeolite that claims to remove ammonia that I put in my filter for a day or two...may have to do a large water change to try and dilute it more until the bacteria builds back up. I was hoping by putting all of the fake plants and decorations back in the tank it wouldn't cause it to cycle again but such is my luck...
 
#16 ·
OK, so I'm 6 days in to this and my ammonia has not begun to come down. It's actually still going up... 4 days ago I tested and had 0.5 ammonia and 1.0 nitrite, so I did about a 15 gallon water change to help lower both. Then 2 days ago I tested again and had 0.5 ammonia and 0.5 nitrite, so I did about a 30 gallon water change. Now today I'm reading 1.0 ammonia and 0 nitrite (at least the nitrite seems to be going the right way!) but why am I still having my ammonia increase on a daily basis? I've added Zeolite that claims to remove ammonia, and I'm feeding less now than ever before since I've lost so many fish with this change over to a planted tank. What is causing such high ammonia?

I've been pulling out any leaves I find floating and plucking any leaves that start changing color on my plants... I am using RO/DI water so I'm not introducing it with my water changes... where are they coming from???
 
#18 ·
its brand new substrate that has only been in the tank for 7 days... it shouldn't be packed with ammonia from the get-go I wouldn't think... I haven't disturbed it with water changes other than a couple of plants that have came up that I've poked back in... I do have ghost shrimp, cory cats and a chinese algae eater that run around the substrate all the time, but again I wouldn't think it'd be packed with ammonia being a new product.

Should I try adding some gravel on top of the eco-complete to keep the shrimp, corys and algae eater off of the eco-complete? Just reading that it could be due to the eco-complete being mineral rich that might be causing it...?
 
#19 ·
last night my tank got REALLY cloudy, I added my filter media back in to try and help clean it up but this morning it was so bad that you can't see the back of the tank. Also noticed this morning all of my shrimp are dead now, so my fish are probably going to finish dying off too... I'm hoping this cloudiness is a sign of bacteria bloom that means the tank is getting close to cycled so maybe my fish might survive... didn't have time to do anything about it last night, so tonight I'll do a large water change again to try and clear it up some and help the fish... I did add more ammo-lock last night just to be safe since it had been a couple days and I hadn't changed water / tested in a couple days so it will hopefully get me through til tonight...
 
#20 ·
here is my take.

all the good bacteria in your tank WAS on the glass, decorations, gravel, etc.
-since you were not using any media in your filter

then you took away all that bacteria when you changed gravel, probably cleaned the glass, etc etc.

then you rescaped and put the fish back in and a whole bunch of organic matter whose dead, soft spots are breaking down (plants and driftwood).
what little good bacteria you have is like a pee-wee baseball team playing the Yankees.

Now your messing with ammolock and other chemicals.

put some for-ever filter media in your filter (sponge material for aquariums, ceramic rings, whatever) and some mechanical filtration.
run that filter 24/7

do big water changes, 50% a day, even 75%, for the next 3 days.
treat new water with Prime or Safe, follow the direction for ammonia spike

then do smaller, 25% wc every other day for a week, treat new water with Prime or Safe regular dose

then do 25% every every third day for a nine days, treat new water with Prime or Safe regular dose

then do 25% every every fourth day for a two weeks, treat new water with Prime or Safe regular dose

feed any fish sparingly 1x a day, the driftwood will get a white fungus that the fish will eat.

don't do anything to the tank- no cleaning, siphoning of substrate, etc, no moving of driftwood etc. you can add more plants if you like

this is at least what I would do. you can alter lighting and add ferts if you like, just no nitrate.

If fish seem stressed just do a 75%wc and continue the schedule.
 
#21 ·
On the other hand...if all your fish die then read read read and start from scratch and do it the right way. Run the fishless cycle and spend that 4-6 weeks getting your scape, plants, lighting right. do research and figure out what fish you want.

--BUT get a good filter first and keep it running.
 
#22 ·
I have a filter that runs 24/7 except for about once a month that I clean it. It has a bio-wheel filter that is run all the time and when I clean the inside of the filter the bio-wheel gets left floating in the tank until the filter is put back on. I've never cleaned the bio-wheel. The remainder of the filter media I don't run on a regular basis, only after doing water changes to polish the water, otherwise its not needed because all it does is trap detritus which breaks down and creates ammonia. Instead (prior to converting to eco-complete) I siphoned my gravel weekly to clean up any detritus that accumulated. Any bacteria that might potentially live on this carbon filter gets thrown away when you replace the filter, so it really doesn't help much...

I would have never cycled the tank with fish in it intentionally. This tank has been up and running since I bought it at the begining of April (and was set up/running where I bought it from, although I did drain it down to move it, there was still a couple inches of water in the bottom with the substrate) with no losses (other than the Angel that came with the tank, but it was doomed from the start because it was living in some pretty nasty conditions from the guy I bought the tank from...) until I decided to pull the substrate and put the eco-complete in, which claims to have all the beneficial nitrifying bacteria in it (I seriously doubt that, but thats why I put all of the fake plants and decorations back in as well that way the bacteria that was living on them would still be in there). I didn't really clean the tank much while I had the water down, I did notice there was some really tiny algae dots on the back so I tried wiping at some of them and they were hard, didn't want to come off so I left it alone.

Prime or safe to my knowledge is for making tapwater safe for a fish tank. Since I'm running RO/DI with 0 TDS, I'm adding pure water with no contaminants (and no ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/phosphate) to my tank. Therefore no need to make it safe using "Prime" or "Safe". These appear to be the same as "ammo-lock" other than the fact that they might have an effect on nitrite and nitrate as well as ammonia, but nitrite and nitrate aren't my problem at least at this point. Personally since my water is pure going in I would consider all of these products to be reactionary products, that you add when you notice you have a problem, not as a way of trying to make the water safe to add to the tank.

I think the biggest lesson here for anyone is that regardless of what someone says you can do, do not replace all of your substrate at once. I've done everything else correct from what I can tell, just the quantity of bacteria living in the substrate has to be overwhelmingly more than everything else in the tank. If you think about substrate as being just a covering the dimensions of the bottom of your tank it doesn't really seem like as much surface area as the rest of the dimensions of your tank for bacteria to live on, but in reality the truth is that the bacteria probably surround every possible square inch all around the substrate, not just on top of it... in that sense it probably has a lot more surface area than the rest of the tank combined, which is why I've had problems.
 
#23 ·
I'm not trying to be hard on you we have all made mistakes. Bio-wheels are notoriously overrated. They sound like a great idea but just aren't in reality. just pack your filter chamber with lava rocks, ceramic rings what ever.

Just using RO/DI is probably not a good idea, plants and fish need that stuff you are purposely not giving them. Tap water is fine. Really

I emptied my 75 gallon tank. took out all substrate. added MGOPM and a cap, replanted and filled with all new water. turned on my filter and I was cycled. did not loose a single fish, shrimp or snail to my knowledge.


My guess is that the substrate is where MOST of your bacteria was.

If you had you filter running with lots of good biomedia you may still have gone through a mini cycle requiring some extra water changes for a week or two but not having issues like you are now.

"I think the biggest lesson here for anyone is that regardless of what someone says you can do, do not replace all of your substrate at once."

The biggest lesson is to understand that yes you can but you MUST do it correctly! I speak from experience.
 
#24 ·
I think even in your situation though if you are running bio-media in your filter the surface area of that is far smaller than the surface area of the substrate, so again even in your case I think you're losing most of the bacteria... you are a little better off for having another place for it to reside, but thats also where I assumed placing all of the fake plants and decorations back in would act in the same way since the bacteria that was living on those items was reintroduced in the same manner as your bio-media would have kept your tank from re-cycling.

My lesson really comes down to if I were to ever change my tank out again I would set up a secondary tank and cycle it to move the fish to until I was certain that my main tank was back in its prime functioning condition... even if that turned out to be my 36 gallon trash can, I'd just set it up and cycle it for a couple weeks before I moved all of my fish in to it for a couple weeks after the substrate change.
 
#26 ·
Well, I use Poret foam. Swiss tropical says
" Poret® is specifically manufactured for aquarium and pond use and has a much larger inner surface than other filter materials (about 1800 sq inch per quart of volume), which permits more rapid and superior growth of bacterial cultures. "

how much surface area is on you fake plants and decorations?

The important thing is not where most of my bacteria was or is. The important thing is that my filter had enough that I didn't have any of the issues you are having:hihi:

Likewise if you have a filter that is working correctly with all the good bacteria just put the fish in the trash can with water siphoned from you tank, the heater and run the filter, no cycling needed:)
 
#25 ·
I do have the filter floss from my 10 gallon HOB filter that I haven't used since I upgraded to my 55 gal FW (since I don't run anything through my HOB in my 10 gal SW, as all filtration is done by the liverock) and my HOB that I have on my 55 has two spots for filters, so I can possibly turn that floss sideways and stick it in the first chamber thereby creating a barrier to keep the zeolite from getting to the second chamber where I place my carbon filter when I'm running it... might be worth trying...
 
#27 ·
I went home and tested my tank last night and the ammonia and nitrites were through the roof, they turned a shade that doesn't even show up on the API test charts... so I did about a 30 gallon water change, then I ran in to town and bought a little 5.5gallon tank and moved what was left of my fish in to there... I'm still going to have to keep doing water changes for it since its not cycled, but hopefully its not quite as toxic because its bare bottom, the only thing producing waste is the fish. I pulled the biowheel from my filter and threw it in there for what little help it might give. Its a little overcrowded, but hopefully its not a very long term arrangement while the 55 gal finishes cycling seems how its apparently doing a full blown cycle now...

I had a couple of my corys and mollies that were being stubborn not wanting to leave the 55 gal so I had to remove the two small pieces of driftwood to give me room to catch them without chasing them all over. This gave me the chance to rearrange and tie some rocks on better to keep the driftwood down since its still floating. Also will be a little more stable to be able to leave it this way with my big flat rock tied on top of the center piece of driftwood that way I can use it as my deflector when I pour water in for water changes...

Once the 55 is back to normal I'm going to use the 5.5gal as a sump for my 10gal SW reef tank, its the biggest tank that would fit in the shelf under my tank was why I went that route... will add a little extra capacity but biggest thing is it will allow my SW to add an auto top off that I haven't been able to come up with a better way of doing it and keeping it hidden from sight...
 
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