all java fern QUICKLY AND SUDDENLY dying - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-23-2013, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
caykuu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 302
Unhappy all java fern QUICKLY AND SUDDENLY dying

The java ferns in my tank are all quickly browning, leaf by leaf.... they've been in the tank for at least a year with no problem.

What is going on? Do I actually need to change the bulb or something (it's 2 and a half years old)? I doubt that's this reason.

All of the java ferns in the tank are quickly browning, not just one patch.

EDIT: The majority of the java ferns in my tank are now over 80% brown, just over the past four days. I'm also having a sudden death problem on all of my Taiwan moss, though it's not as severe as the java ferns. If anyone knows what's happening, PLEASE tell me.

Last edited by caykuu; 06-28-2013 at 01:49 AM. Reason: title
caykuu is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 08:49 AM
Algae Grower
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Penang, Malaysia
Posts: 15
trim it all the brown/black leaves, if the symptom happens pretty fast; Im sure it is related to Java ferns melts.. Do some water changes about 50%, and I don't think it got to do with your lighting system..
MrSwampfish is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
caykuu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 302
I just did a 50% water change a few days ago, but it started browning before then.
I trimmed down the leaves yesterday, but when I woke up this morning, there were more brown leaves.

Anyone else know the cause?
caykuu is offline  
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 01:42 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
caykuu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 302
90% of the java fern in my tank has died in the past few four days.

If anyone has ANY idea what's happening, please let me know...
caykuu is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 01:43 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
acitydweller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 7,695
oh no. seems like youve been havving problem with this tanke for several weeks. hope it turns around for you soon.

How is the water temp?

"I am Groot", the faithful protector

Last edited by Darkblade48; 06-29-2013 at 02:26 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
acitydweller is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 05:08 AM
Planted Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Alaska
Posts: 187
Do you have enough nitrates (not nitrites)? I have read that java ferns can brown if they do not have enough nitrates...
fish_22 is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 05:17 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
sleepswithdafishez's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: under
Posts: 744
Maybe you need to add fertilizers?Anyone know how long the nutrients in the substrate last?
sleepswithdafishez is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 12:26 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
gSTiTcH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 838
Let's go back to basics:

What are your parameters?

Also, as a side note, bulbs do change quite a bit as they age, especially fluorescent. Might not be a bad thing to R&R the bulb.

RAOK Club #105

Pay It Forward, Further the Community!

It's CO2. See-Oh-Two. Not C02 (see-zero-two).
gSTiTcH is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 01:31 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
trapperwolves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 502
It is my understanding that fluorescent bulbs need to be changed once a year for a planted tank. Even if a light appears bright it might not be putting out the light (wave length/spectrum) needed by plants to grow.

Trapperwolves

75 Gallon--Rainbow Fish Tank/Amano Shrimp
29 Gallon--Celestial Pearl Danios/Yellow Shrimp
20 Gallon--Ember Tetras/Orange Shrimp
10 Gallon--Chili Rasboras/Cherry Red Shrimp
trapperwolves is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 03:33 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Seattle_Aquarist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by caykuu View Post
The java ferns in my tank are all quickly browning, leaf by leaf.... they've been in the tank for at least a year with no problem.

What is going on? Do I actually need to change the bulb or something (it's 2 and a half years old)? I doubt that's this reason.

All of the java ferns in the tank are quickly browning, not just one patch.

EDIT: The majority of the java ferns in my tank are now over 80% brown, just over the past four days. I'm also having a sudden death problem on all of my Taiwan moss, though it's not as severe as the java ferns. If anyone knows what's happening, PLEASE tell me.
Hi caykuu,

I feel your pain having gone through this a few times over the last four years; here is a thread that is a couple of years old that may help....you will find my post (#6) about 1/2 down the first page. Most recently it happened again about 2 months ago. It wiped out about 80% of my 'Trident' and 'Windelov' before I got a handle on it. The good news is your plants can recover.

My first thought was it was a disease but I no longer believe that. Replacing the lamps in my fixtures had not effect; my most recent outbreak happened with lamps that were two months old. My third thought was that it might be 'seasonal' but I had some tanks remain unaffected and other tanks suffering with the problem. Now I am strongly leaning toward nutrient deficiency, most likely one of the following:
Magnesium
Calcium
Potassium
Manganese

I suspect it is a deficiency of one (or a combination) of the nutrients above. We have very soft water where I live (<1.0 dKH; <3.0 dGH). Whenever I have the 'melting' problem occur it is usually due to my laziness. Typically when I do my water changes I add sufficient Seachem Equilibrium to raise my general hardness to at least 4.0 dGH (which was recommended by Tom Barr at a talk at our club a couple of years ago). I also add a small amount of baking soda (NaHCO3) to raise my carbonate hardness to 2.0 dKH. When I fail to add those nutrients eventually the 'melt' will show up and remind me.

My plants are all now recovering, here is what I did.

1) Removed any leaves that show any brown discoloration at all (so I can see if the deficiency continues or is resolved). Don't worry if the green rhizome ends up with no leaves; they will grow back
2) 50% water change to 'reset' the tank
3) Continued my normal fertilization (EI) dosing
4) Added sufficient NaHCO3 to raise dKH to 2.0 after every water change
(I use this baking soda / dKH calculator)
5) Added sufficient Seachem Equilibrium to raise dGH to 4.0 after every water change
(I use the Seachem calculator)
6) I also added 1/8 tsp MgSO4 (Epsom salt) and 1/8 tsp CaCl (calcium carbonate/Dri-z-air/dissolve in before adding to tank) per 15 gallon weekly after doing my water change. Adding equal amounts of MgSO4 and CaCl helps to maintain the 3.3:1 Ca:Mg ratio.

Before 'melt'

Roy
75 Gallon, 2X55W AH Supply CF 8800K, 1XMarineland Doublebright, 2X Marineland 350 Magnum; 45 Gallon Tall, 96Watt AH Supply CF 6700K; 30 Gallon Long; 2X36W AH Supply CF 6700K; 20 Gallon, 1X26W AH Supply LED kit; all with Press. CO2; (Calcined) Montmorillonite Clay
Greater Seattle Aquarium Society (GSAS)


Last edited by Seattle_Aquarist; 06-28-2013 at 04:08 PM. Reason: grammer
Seattle_Aquarist is online now  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
caykuu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 302
I dosed two capfuls of Flourish Comprehensive last week.

Temperature is 78.

Thanks for the post Aquarist. I don't currently have the equipment to test for KH and GH, though I'm sure the water that comes through my faucet is also soft... since we have a water softener.

Not sure where to get MgSO4 and CaCl specifically. Is it a dry fert? I currently only have flourish comprehensive and a bottle of flourish iron.
caykuu is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 04:54 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Seattle_Aquarist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,392
Hi caykuu,

Most LFS will test your water for little or no charge.

Seachem Equilibrium is available at most better LFS

MgSO4 is Epsom salt available at drug stores or sometimes even grocery stores; less than $2 per pound

CaCl is found in Dri-Z-Air available at hardware stores as a dehumidifying chemical; less than $2 for 13 oz bag.

Roy
75 Gallon, 2X55W AH Supply CF 8800K, 1XMarineland Doublebright, 2X Marineland 350 Magnum; 45 Gallon Tall, 96Watt AH Supply CF 6700K; 30 Gallon Long; 2X36W AH Supply CF 6700K; 20 Gallon, 1X26W AH Supply LED kit; all with Press. CO2; (Calcined) Montmorillonite Clay
Greater Seattle Aquarium Society (GSAS)


Last edited by Seattle_Aquarist; 06-28-2013 at 04:56 PM. Reason: added pic
Seattle_Aquarist is online now  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 05:05 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Kathyy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Newbury Park, CA
Posts: 4,182
If your water is softened what happens is calcium and magnesium are removed and sodium replaces it unless your softener uses a potassium salt as some do. Softened water isn't good for aquariums, plants need those minerals and don't need sodium. If you could get water before it goes through the softener that would be much better.

Try that for a while, your plants should have enough calcium and magnesium if you do that and your water really is hard.

MgSO4 [+a lot of H2O molecules] is Epsom salts. I just bought plain stuff at the $ store, beware - scented Epsom salt is also sold there. I think CaCl is actually plaster of paris, no CaSO4 is POP and would work scary sounding though it is. Again, be absolutely sure it is pure and plain POP. I happen to have a couple pounds of calcium carbonate left over from cooking dog food and use that.

I thought I had hard water as I am in southern California but my plants do better with a bit of epsom salt at water change time and I add a bit of calcium carbonate as well mostly because I have it on hand.

I have had a bit of fern melt and thought it was diseased. Cut out the dead stuff and the plant recovered. Since the plants do better with added hardness it is perfectly possible the hardness dipped a bit too low as was Seattle Aquarist's experience.
Kathyy is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 05:28 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
gSTiTcH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 838
Yeah, that water softener is bad news for the plants.

RAOK Club #105

Pay It Forward, Further the Community!

It's CO2. See-Oh-Two. Not C02 (see-zero-two).
gSTiTcH is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-01-2013, 02:39 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
caykuu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 302
Did a 50% water change yesterday again using the tap from outside before going through the softener.
Hopefully things will get better...? Though I suddenly don't think it will...

The thing is, this browning problem started occurring on the moss BEFORE I did a water change last week- and before that, I didn't do a water change in 6 months, and the plants were growing very well. It occurred quite suddenly, before I did anything new to the tank, (just dosing Flourish comprehensive once a month or so) which makes me think it's a disease... though I'm not really qualified to come to a conclusion like this. Any more pointers?

Thought I would note that the dwarf sag is not affected at all by any of this. Only the Taiwan moss and java ferns are all browning and dying.. VERY quickly...

Last edited by caykuu; 07-01-2013 at 02:49 AM. Reason: edit
caykuu is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome