Keeping discus in plant tank - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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Keeping discus in plant tank

Well now that my 265gal plant tank is stabilizing and while the tank cycles im starting to study keeping discus.

Is there anything i should be aware of in keeping discus in heavily planted tank with high tech system such as bright t5 ho lights and co2?
What about ferts such as nitrate?

I have a 120gal sump system where first 1/4 section is poret filters then mid 1/2 is 50gal space of bioballs and last section is seachem biomatrix media(enough for 400gal) and sponge and 18w uv sterilizer, then finally return pump. Also co2 reactor with ph controller at end section.

I was watching this video where this guy uses refugium ecosystem mud to filter 120gal lowtech discus tank where there is 15 adult discus in it and hundred tetras. He has only done 10 water changes in 6 years!
His fish look amazing and he never even scrapes the side or back wall of the tank for algae cleaning.

Check it out and lmk what u guys think:

http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/pro...ud-freshwater/

Now i kept refugium for saltwater reef tank before and it did wonders. I hardly did water change and corals thrived.

So what im thinking is to replace the huge bioballs i have with this miracle mud.

Discuspaul where r u? Now im gonna need your help.
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post #2 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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Well this guy is a discus breeder himself and if we never tried this route and keep saying it can never be done then that wont be smart.
I wanna keep healthy fish but why do more work when u dont have to?
Just wanted to see if ppl have any knowledge about this aspect of discus keeping.
Cuz everyone including myself knows daily water change is good for discus.
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post #3 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkreef View Post
Well this guy is a discus breeder himself and if we never tried this route and keep saying it can never be done then that wont be smart.
I wanna keep healthy fish but why do more work when u dont have to?
Just wanted to see if ppl have any knowledge about this aspect of discus keeping.
Cuz everyone including myself knows daily water change is good for discus.
I agree completely. I removed my previous post because it may be misconstrued as offensive to some and I don't want to step on any toes. If you decide to try something similar to the setup in the video please post up a thread on it, I am extremely interested in the possibility of a low maintenance discus tank.
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post #4 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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Well i dont wanna be the first guy to try this method just believing this video cuz looks like the guy is a promoter of ecosystem miracle mud...

Im hoping to find some other discus keepers who went this route and their experience.

My another problem i see is if this mud is so efficient at removing nitrates then how would that affect heavy high tech plant tanks for nutrients?
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post #5 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 02:16 PM
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Well i dont wanna be the first guy to try this method just believing this video cuz looks like the guy is a promoter of ecosystem miracle mud...
BINGO!!!

at 4:40.. he talks about the importance of water changes.. if you want great growth, color and size..

and 20:25 he talks about what size of fish he brings in to sell..
so he is not breeding them, he imports them from asia

i am not sure why people get get stuck on a statement about that display tank only have 10 water changes in 6 years.. YET.. disregard how he states several times over 32 minutes, the importance of water changes for growth and health.. and 25th min he states the best type of tank, is a Bare bottom.
those fish in the Display tank have not been raised from juvies to adult in there.. so beware to trying to do the same

to answer you question, of all the discus people i know from around the county.. they do not have a planted tank to house their discus with refug...

ps.. IF one must feel the need to have planted discus tank.. you should get a MINIMUM Of 5" fish, young adult
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post #6 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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i was thinking of getting 4" does that make a difference?
mine is heavy hightech plant tank.
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post #7 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
BINGO!!!

at 4:40.. he talks about the importance of water changes.. if you want great growth, color and size..

and 20:25 he talks about what size of fish he brings in to sell..
so he is not breeding them, he imports them from asia

i am not sure why people get get stuck on a statement about that display tank only have 10 water changes in 6 years.. YET.. disregard how he states several times over 32 minutes, the importance of water changes for growth and health.. and 25th min he states the best type of tank, is a Bare bottom.
those fish in the Display tank have not been raised from juvies to adult in there.. so beware to trying to do the same

to answer you question, of all the discus people i know from around the county.. they do not have a planted tank to house their discus with refug...

ps.. IF one must feel the need to have planted discus tank.. you should get a MINIMUM Of 5" fish, young adult

Very appropriate commentary, Skip.
I agree with what Warlock has to say here.

Not saying this can't be done by anyone, but keep in mind that the host of this video is quite obviously pretty much a discus 'expert', has a lot of know-how regarding methods, maintenance & timing of dealing with the various aspects of the refugium, and has learned the best approaches to keeping nitrates quite low, negating the need for regular wcs.

And as Skip says, he didn't grow those discus in that tank - he populated it with 5"-6" adults from the get-go.
And if I got it all correctly, he is not using CO2 in that refugium, so he's minimizing the chances or risks of possible pH swings, or other things that can go awry.

You could give it a go, dkreef, but I would suggest tending to understock the tank, being careful with keeping a regular eye on things, testing, starting with healthy adult fish, doing minimum monthly wcs, at least to start with until you've got a good feel for how things are working out, and be very careful with going the high-tech pressurized CO2 route with this kind of set-up.

Not sure I could or would succeed with doing this myself, so not sure I would try it, and I have a lot of discus-keeping time under my belt.
That's my take.

Last edited by discuspaul; 04-29-2013 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Changes - typos
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post #8 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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when u mean be careful of co2 hightech, u mean co2 overdose and PH swings?

cuz i have a ph controller and it keeps PH day and night at 6.8-6.9 all the time.

anything else i need to be careful of in hightech plant tank with discus?

what about dosing fertilizers NPK, micro?

are 4" size considered adult enough?
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post #9 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dkreef View Post

are 4" size considered adult enough?
no.. but i am assuming you would buy from a reputable breeder/seller.. NOT LFS>. some LFS have 4" fish are over year old.. and stunted at 4"..

pm me.. and i can hook u up with names..
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post #10 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dkreef View Post
when u mean be careful of co2 hightech, u mean co2 overdose and PH swings?

cuz i have a ph controller and it keeps PH day and night at 6.8-6.9 all the time.

anything else i need to be careful of in hightech plant tank with discus?

what about dosing fertilizers NPK, micro?

are 4" size considered adult enough?
Yes, that's basically what I mean. And it's good that you have a controller for maintenance of pH stability.
BTW, you don't run your CO2 at night do you (24/7) ?

If you're well experienced with running a high tech pressurized CO2 system, then there's nothing specific I can think of that should/could present any serious problems for the discus, including dosing NPK and trace elements.

4" discus are near adults, but will not likely have as well developed immune systems as 6" adults, the latter which also need lesser feedings than 4" fish - hence easier to maintain good tank cleanliness.

In this type of environment, further growth of 4" fish may tend to be very limited (i.e. some stunting risk), but if that doean't bother you, then go ahead with the smaller fish.

If it were me, I would still hesitate to take on this kind of challenge with discus, as I would not wish to be faced with the potential hassle of having to correct/change/alter/backtrack/watch & maintain all systems properly.
I feel it would take more time monitoring this type of set-up than the time it takes to do more regular wcs, and maintain a low-tech enviro.

And regardless of the video host's experience & results with this kind of set-up ( he's able to monitor it well daily in his shop), I nonetheless can't felp feeling the discus may not remain as healthy & disease-resistant over the long term, as those receiving regular large doses of fresh, clean water.
But hey, that's just me - to each his own.
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post #11 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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i know an importer that brings in tropical fish from thailand and singapore including discus.
i can order couple and see how they are. biggest they have is 4" they have classified some as hormoned and nonhormoned. im of course gonna buy nonhormone ones.
cost is great so im considering it but also wanna check out local breeders around here.
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post #12 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dkreef View Post
i know an importer that brings in tropical fish from thailand and singapore including discus.
i can order couple and see how they are. biggest they have is 4" they have classified some as hormoned and nonhormoned. im of course gonna buy nonhormone ones.
cost is great so im considering it but also wanna check out local breeders around here.
Over the past few years I've read & heard several times that Thailand's discus-breeders, generally-speaking, do not have an unblemished reputation for supplying good quality, healthy discus, and that many breeders there have a rep for exporting/supplying (undisclosed) hormoned fish - a no-no in the reliable/responsible end of the discus-producing industry.

In Malaysia for example, it seems you will rarely, if ever, come across a discus breeder who hormones discus, whereas in Thailand, it may be the other way around.
To me, it doesn't speak well for the importer you mention, if he is bringing in & selling hormoned discus.

How far are you from SF ? I would suggest considering getting your discus from Kenny's Discus in Daly City, Ca. He imports quality Forrest discus from Malaysia, which is what I buy from an excellent supplier here in Vancouver.
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post #13 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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Over the past few years I've read & heard several times that Thailand's discus-breeders, generally-speaking, do not have an unblemished reputation for supplying good quality, healthy discus, and that many breeders there have a rep for exporting/supplying (undisclosed) hormoned fish - a no-no in the reliable/responsible end of the discus-producing industry.

In Malaysia for example, it seems you will rarely, if ever, come across a discus breeder who hormones discus, whereas in Thailand, it may be the other way around.
To me, it doesn't speak well for the importer you mention, if he is bringing in & selling hormoned discus.

How far are you from SF ? I would suggest considering getting your discus from Kenny's Discus in Daly City, Ca. He imports quality Forrest discus from Malaysia, which is what I buy from an excellent supplier here in Vancouver.
good info. im gona check out inland empire discus as i work in same city.
thanks
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post #14 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 09:27 PM
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good info. im gona check out inland empire discus as i work in same city.
thanks
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post #15 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 09:35 PM
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Bill of Inland Empire Discus has a very good reputation and is a long-time sponsor on simplydiscus forum.
Can't go wrong buying from him.

Last edited by discuspaul; 04-29-2013 at 09:37 PM. Reason: Adding words
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