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First Attempt - Planted Nano Tank

75K views 93 replies 27 participants last post by  somewhatshocked 
#1 ·
Hi fish tank people! I have a betta fish currently living in a small bowl and wanted to do something nice for him. This is my first attempt at planting an aquarium so I hope it works out.

It's an 8 gal planted Fluval Flora with - Anubias / Crypt / Micro Sword / Java Fern / Wysteria / random betta bulb

The wysteria should fill in the back / grow taller. My main concern is aeration in the front.

I hope the thin layer of sand allows enough gas exchange with the substrate.

Hardscape: (Found / boiled - driftwood / rocks) Fluval substrate / AQ sand


The Rest:







Minnows for the Cycle:
 
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#3 ·
I will be doing regular water changes and have introduced beneficial bacteria directly to the filter / gravel. I don't intend on killing them with their own waste - I just need an experimental fish to insure that the conditions are safe for my betta.

Thanks,
Rob
 
#6 ·
You should be fine. I kept 4 healthy fat rosy red minnows in a densely planted 1.5 gallons before. I had to return them after 2 months to the LFS because I had to go back overseas. boy, what a giant difference there was between the LFS feeders and these seemingly abused fish....

I felt bad returning them to their deaths, but really had no choice.
 
#11 ·
Sorry, it's absolutely inexcusable to use a fish to "cycle" a tank in 2012. There's enough information about the fishless cycle on this forum for anyone to make it through. You can't say you're using a fish to test the waters because it's cheap or to cycle and not expect people to express their opinions about how silly it is on a forum like this.

That said, it appears that you're using aragonite or crushed coral sand that will greatly increase your tank's pH. That 'sand' will also end up sinking below the Fluval Stratum.
 
#89 ·
Reading this 7 years later and it’s still hilarious. You’re talking about a 5 cent fish lmfao. Get off your high horse. Let me guess, you try to revive the squirrels you run over with your car? Or I know, you make sure with every single step you take outside that you aren’t stepping on any bugs.

I’ve been reefing and keeping fresh water for over 25 years and have never used anything other than fish to help cycle my tanks. Let me know when a $0.05 fish death alters the course of history and I’ll change my tactics. Or even better, let me know when a $6.00 damsel death causes human suffering and I’ll modify how I cycle my tanks.

My kid has two geckos that eat live crickets, maybe I should be feeding them something different. I don’t want to wipe out the cricket population on earth ha ha ha ha ha ha.
 
#12 ·
I use home bred guppies as ammonia and tests for my cycles, they usually end up dying and adding more ammonia. I really don't care, what's 5 guppies when your tank produces hundreds monthly... It's more economical than a bottle of quick start if you ask me.

And who is to judge what death is fine for the fish? If anyone, it should be their owners. Without them, the fish wouldn't exist let alone survive. (I am only referring to home-bred feeders)

Whether they die by predation, old age, disease, or ammonia burn, it really doesn't matter, because they're all going to get blended up one day anyways. They're feeders, disposable and cheap.
 
#13 ·
Don't expect to be taken seriously by fellow hobbyists when you show such rampant disregard for the life of your livestock. Especially if you ever hope to buy livestock from fellow hobbyists who have read your comments.

Who is to judge? Fellow hobbyists. We're judging. Because others brought it up.

It's a nearly universally frowned upon practice.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Feel what you want, but I'm sure I have a valid point that fellow hobbyists would take seriously, even if they don't agree. How can you reasonably generalize "nearly universal" when there's clearly plenty of others who share opinions other than your own?

I specifically said I only do this to my feeder guppies, and ONLY when I'm cycling new tanks (the frequency of when I do is irrelevant, but it's RARE, I cycle using old media and established system water but irrelevantzzz)

That's HARDLY showing "rampant disregard" for all of my livestock.

Believe me, in any other case I would agree with you, but in this one they're going to die regardless, and either death is equally gruesome to me.

Even if I didn't use them in place of ammonia bottles, I would HAVE to cull them all, they reproduce too prolifically for me to maintain. Either that or I take them to my overcrowded LFS where they'll be put into crowded and filthy conditions while they starve to death.

Another point, these are feeders. They are not my livestock anymore than the hair algae or the Ghost Shrimp they live with. They are feeders. They are born to die, it may be morally grey, but that's what it is.

Either way, they're stressed, then they're dead.

Now, I don't want to blow anything up and derail any more threads, so if you want to have this discussion with me I would love to hear what you have to say in a PM. I believe your arguments are very valid, but I also believe mine hold some weight. If you feel like I am on a path that I'll regret in the future, please take the time out of your day to enlighten me.
 
#15 ·
Google or search this forum for "fishless cycle" and most people seriously frown upon using living creatures to cycle a tank.

I don't care what livestock you use. It's my opinion that it's unnecessary and inexcusable. It is, in my opinion, rampant disregard for your livestock.

People shouldn't mention using living fish to cycle tanks if they don't want it discussed. End of story.
 
#16 ·
You effectively ignored everything I said and restated your previous post, thank you for that, all you've shown me is that you are too stubborn to accept other opinions, and would rather just stick to your own and tell everyone else to shut up. Good day.
 
#17 ·
Nah, jumping to assumptions won't suit you in this case, either. Nor will getting nasty because someone gives you other options.

You do have other options to control your population rather than allowing them to suffer. Give them away to fellow hobbyists on this forum, for instance. Or, as you said, use them as feeders to continue the cycle of life. Or stop allowing them to breed to uncontrollable levels.

My point is that it's 2012. There is next to no excuse for using fish to cycle when there are countless ammonia sources available. Fish food, raw shrimp, bottled ammonia. That's my opinion. If you aren't keen on being criticized or having people question your practices that you openly and freely shared, don't mention it on a forum filled with opinionated people who prefer best practices in aquaria. It's nothing personal.
 
#18 ·
Again, can you speak with a less condescending tone, I may be assuming your tone, but to me it sounds as if you think I'm some r-tard who doesn't know what he's doing. Excuse me if you think I'm "getting nasty" because of that, but you did ignore everything I said.

I am in no way trying to argue against what you said, I know it to be true. I myself cycle all my tanks with old filter media and established system system, but my point is that I still add guppies IN PLACE OF AMMONIA ADDITIVES. I only brought up the point that in this case, it really doesn't matter because the cycle of life is being continued by the feeders, their bodies will feed the bacteria.

Trust me, I know, it's nothing personal. Just a discussion about different opinions, but that doesn't give you the right to start telling me to google fishless cycles like I don't know what they are or to tell me that it's 2012 and implying I live with an outdated school of thought. I never attacked you personally, I don't see why you need to imply that to me.
 
#19 ·
I am in no way trying to argue against what you said, I know it to be true.
Point proved.

There is no tone-of-voice in my written text. I use as little inflection as possible so there is no confusion on the parts of those forum members who don't speak English as a first language or have difficulty discerning dialect or my native hillbillyspeak (unless it's in my own tank journals).

But I do appreciate you admitting that there are other options. We always have to keep in mind that our practices can and do influence others who are new to the hobby and just learning. When they see that there can be cordial conversations like this while learning, it's a good thing.

And to the OP: I hope you'll shed a bit more light on the specific sand you're using.
 
#20 ·
Point may be proven, but it was proven from the start, it was never argued. The secondary point I discussed was ignored. And that was that feeder guppies are inexpensive alternatives to ammonia additives if you have hundreds of them on hand.

Answer me this, what is the difference if a fish eats a guppy and poops it into ammonia than if bacteria decomposes a guppy and turns it into ammonia?

Is it the suffering of the guppy as it burns in ammonia?

If so, would it then be OK to kill the guppy and then use it's dead body for ammonia? That is the same exact thing as using fish food because well, they are fish food.

You do have other options to control your population rather than allowing them to suffer. Give them away to fellow hobbyists on this forum, for instance. Or, as you said, use them as feeders to continue the cycle of life. Or stop allowing them to breed to uncontrollable levels.
I DONATE to my LFS 200-300 guppies a month. I still have 200 left in the tank after that, I can't bear to just kill all of them, so I cull out the ones that are lower grades for food and assorted uses.

I don't think anyone on this forum would care to pay $7 shipping for a bunch of colorless feeder guppies they can get 15 for $1.

Please give me other options, because I really do need to do that.

It's nearly impossible to stop guppies from breeding. I could leave only 2 in the tank and a month later I would have 100. The following month would be 500. I could either kill them as fry or cull them after they develop as adults, either way, I can't necessarily neuter my guppies can I? Help me out here.

As for OP's sand, I would like to know what it is also. It looks beautiful and I would love to use it in a nano.
 
#23 ·
Feeder guppies may be inexpensive. Price has nothing to do with a fish suffering a cruel death.

The difference between a fish eating a guppy and using a guppy to slowly die from ammonia toxicity: getting eaten is a super-quick death and dying from ammonia burns and poisoning is slow and often laborious.

If a guppy is killed instantly and then used to cycle a tank, that is obviously much more humane than allowing it to suffer and languish.

People constantly pay me for random culled Endlers and Guppies. Often even paying for USPS Express. All it takes is a little effort.

How to stop them from breeding: separate genders. That's why most Endler/Guppy keepers and breeders keep them separated until breeding is desired.

OP: Glad to hear it's not crushed coral so you don't have to worry about parameters altering.

Point may be proven, but it was proven from the start, it was never argued. The secondary point I discussed was ignored. And that was that feeder guppies are inexpensive alternatives to ammonia additives if you have hundreds of them on hand.

Answer me this, what is the difference if a fish eats a guppy and poops it into ammonia than if bacteria decomposes a guppy and turns it into ammonia?

Is it the suffering of the guppy as it burns in ammonia?

If so, would it then be OK to kill the guppy and then use it's dead body for ammonia? That is the same exact thing as using fish food because well, they are fish food.



I DONATE to my LFS 200-300 guppies a month. I still have 200 left in the tank after that, I can't bear to just kill all of them, so I cull out the ones that are lower grades for food and assorted uses.

I don't think anyone on this forum would care to pay $7 shipping for a bunch of colorless feeder guppies they can get 15 for $1.

Please give me other options, because I really do need to do that.

It's nearly impossible to stop guppies from breeding. I could leave only 2 in the tank and a month later I would have 100. The following month would be 500. I could either kill them as fry or cull them after they develop as adults, either way, I can't necessarily neuter my guppies can I? Help me out here.

As for OP's sand, I would like to know what it is also. It looks beautiful and I would love to use it in a nano.
 
#21 ·
does the tank come with that background? i really like it. gives it depth. if it didn't come with it, how did you make it? is it safe?

someone suggested that the 'sand' is crushed coral? if it is, then it is going to raise your pH by a good amount. but from reading your initial post, it seems like it is just regular sand which should be okay. just be careful if it is crushed coral
 
#22 ·
Regarding Sand: The product was purchased at petco. It is not crushed reef. The packaging claims that it will not affect water chemistry / PH. Will provide more info when I get home.

Regarding Cycling with a fish: The tank currently has a certain amount of bennies living in it. Some of the fluval strat was from a starter tank I was raising the plants in (2 weeks). The filter material was primed with beneficial bacteria. I will be monitoring ammonia levels (not by # of floating fish) and will adjust / change water accordingly. When I am done with these minnows they'll go in an outdoor pond or be humanely euthanized. Until then they'll enjoy the proverbial Elysian fields of feeder fish habitats.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Sorry, this might be a misinterpretation. This isn't a blanket discussion of all fish. Just breeder guppies that have gotten out of control, or cheap feeders like that minnow. This was also addressed, the humane thing to do would be to kill them painlessly and quickly before using them as ammonia additives in place of fish food. IF you wanted to use them as a reliable ammonia additive.

That's also assuming they suffer and die in the cycling tank, for this I want to repeat this.

With the ratio of plants to one minnow and 7 gallons of water. I dont even know why fish abuse is being discussed here.

I would personally enjoy this much more than a feeder tank. <LOL This is not a plant less cycle...(which will probably incite a lot more hate)
Don't assume that I have a disregard for the life of my guppies just because I refer to them as feeders and food fish, I house them in appropriate conditions and give them a happy environment to live out their lives until their impending doom, it's just how it is.

With a great volume of water, a previously established colony of bacteria, and adequate control of the ammonia levels in the tank, the fish will create ammonia and eventually die and add to it. Who said that I put my guppies in to burn in a concentrated ammonia bath? (bah rhetoric flaw)
You are assuming that I use guppies to start the cycle-I don't. I said they usually end up dying-like most feeders do-and that I don't remove their bodies so the bacteria can turn it into ammonia. This was established. They're even fed, so that their waste can turn into ammonia. It's like a light fish cycle, with low ammonia levels. Entirely different topic.

If you want a discussion about the morality of how we should feel and talk about raised fish food, we should take it to a separate place. Why do we need to continue to drag OP's original post away from what it is?

Even though my intentions were not to cause a thread fallout, I've done it again, so, if you have further comments, please PM me. I am willing to hear what you want to say. Your opinion matters to me, if you can show me "the light" I will be willing to "accept it." No more from me. I don't want to get in trouble.

P.S. Ignorance is defined as "lack of knowledge or information," not of conflicting opinions.
 
#26 ·
It should be noted that ignorance is not a bad thing in any way. It's why this forum exists. So us ignorant people can learn from others who know more. And so we can share what we do know with those who are just starting out.

And no question - especially on a forum like this - is silly (I've seen a lot of folks apologize for their questions lately and they shouldn't). Because there's always an answer and always someone reading who can learn from it.
 
#27 ·
With the ratio of plants to one minnow and 7 gallons of water. I dont even know why fish abuse is being discussed here. lol. most likely nothing will happen an the crypts will grow like weeds.

and If I were the minnow. I would personally enjoy this much more than a feeder tank. This is not a plant less cycle...(which will probably incite a lot more hate) and OP already stated that he will keep ammonia down if need be.
 
#31 ·
Welcome to the planted side! (It's very addicting! Watch out hehe) The hard scape looks great and I love the placement of the windelov fern, will look great when it really grows out.




Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2
 
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