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I simply have not found an acclimation process (15 years into the hobby!)-What works?

2K views 12 replies 8 participants last post by  AbbeysDad 
#1 ·
I don't have a lot of trouble keeping fish, once they have acclimated. Basically, if my fish last the first 3 days, they all live a long, healthy life. I only loose fish in the acclimation process.

I have found the following works equally as well:

-Floating the fish until water is equal temp, dump bag into net, catch fish, no acclimation to water parmeters
-Floating the fish until water is equal temp, adding 1/2 tank water to bag, dump bag into net, catch fish, very little acclimation to water parameters over time
-Drip acclimating fish for 1-2 hours, netting them, put into tank
-Drip acclimating fish for long periods of time, like 6 hours, with a heater once I get enough water, an air stone, etc.
-Switching to the same RO water as the store I buy fish from for month before I add fish (this had slightly better results) but is harder for me these days as I don't have room for the jugs since I moved to a smaller place.

I also have done each combination of the above doing:
-No change in CO2, ferts, etc
-Turn CO2 off for a day before
-Do large water change, off gas as much CO2 remaining with an air stone or HOB filter added
-Not add any ferts, do large water change, off gas as much CO2 remaining with an air stone or HOB filter added

Basically, I feel I have tried everything. I feel like am I am fish serial killer. I love fish in my tank but because of all this, my tanks have been very understocked and I would like to change this.

I did have a quarantine tank I used way back and that seemed to help. I could do a small one, maybe 2-5 gallons, but it is challenging in my small one bedroom. What I likely cannot do, is keep it setup and cycled for any real period of time.

Just really looking for a way to keep fish in my tank, again, I am feeling "unethical" about the situation, I don't take this lightly. The only reason I have tried so may ways over the years was trying to find something that works, not because I am just trying things for the sake of it.

If I get fish from a hobbyist, and not a store, I don't seem to have much issue. However, even when I go to the stores in my area known for the healthiest fish, I still have this issue.

Could the fact I have a lowered car, with stiff suspension be the culprit? Because I have tried every way to do this, I also don't want to rule out a totally different potential issue. I try to keep the bag in a dark place with some cushion under the bag but my car is going to bounce, especially with these terrible Oakland potholes.
 
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#3 ·
Here is the video I think you are talking about, if others are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDq7IRwcASQ

That makes a lot of sense. The reason I have not done it this way a lot is simply because I felt it was very discouraged on this site. However, I did read that one high level Discus breeder strongly recommended getting them out of the bag ASAP.

However, is CO2 an issue? It's really hard for me to off gas my CO2 quickly, though I could get a simple HOB filter and turn it on the day before, unhook the CO2, then hook it back up later. However, then they have to acclimate to the water, then CO2 pretty quickly as I don't want to have my CO2 off long enough to create algae issues. Should I be concerned about high CO2 levels in the tank or not?

This was what I was going to try next, but I wanted opinions. If I loose a fish but feel like I did my best, to my knowledge, I don't feel nearly as bad as feeling like I am trying experiments, and they didn't work as hoped. Then I feel like it's accidental genocide.
 
#4 ·
I've always used the plop and drop method, and I've never lost a fish to the acclimation process. I've never adjusted my Co2 either. it doesn't seem to affect them at all. I seem to remember reading somewhere though that water parameters might play a factor. As in some water parameters might be harder for fish to acclimate to than others. I can't remember what though. Maybe someone else knows and can chime in?
 
#6 ·
What are you trying to keep and what is your water like.


I will tell everyone that they need, require, a qt tank. It can just a 5 gallon buck, heater, and small bubble filter. I use simple economy corner filters at most 5 dollars. I then fill it up with filter media from my established tanks. For a 5 gallon bucket, fill it with water from the tank you are going to add them, fill filter with media from your filter that is setup, could be just a sponge, gravel, or what ever you are using. Run it until you are happy with results. If nothing comes up, then dump the fish, wash everything up, replace the media, and move on. I always quarantine because it is literally the best for the animals. Anything starts to go south, you can fix it. Rant over.


As acclimating. It really does depend on what you have. Clearly moving fish from saltwater to fresh should be done with some care, I have dumped mollys from fresh to saltwater and they did not care. But as long as you are not doing a great osmotic shock and you are not dealing with a species that is known to have problem, just dump.
 
#7 ·
Here is my wanted/unwanted opinion on the matter, you can decide.

1. There is no right or wrong way there are different ways that work better for different situations. Most important is the fish health when acclimating. A lot of times fish die during acclimation because they are unhealthy to begin with so a reputable LFS and supplier is most important. If you get unhealthy fish some may die no matter the acclimation process you try.

2. Always make sure temperature is the same.

3. There is no method that guarantee's your fish to survive but rather increase you chances (As I already said a lot is due to the health of the fish to begin with)

3. If you are getting fish shipped in or they spending long periods of time in the bag then ammonia and PH are of concern and I would recommend plop and drop method. As the fish produce waste which leads to ammonia build up and respiratory exchange creates increasing levels of Co2. This drops the PH of the water in turn chemically changing the amount of free ammonia (very toxic) and transforming it to ammonium (not as toxic). When you open the bag the gas exchange starts and if you add water or start to drip acclimate the Co2 is off gasses very quickly leading to a fast PH increase and fast conversion of ammonium back into free ammonia and can poison a fish rather quickly causing death or permanent damage. The best chance you have in this situation is to float the bag 20 min. then open the bag pour through the net and plop in your water.

4. If you are getting from the LFS or local breeder and less than 1 hour in the bag with reasonable numbers (not 20 fish in one bag) I would say drip acclimate. This is because you do not have to worry about the Co2 or ammonia building up in this period of time. A slow acclimation in temp and parameters is always ideal but as described in number 3 not always possible. I prefer to bring a small bucket with me personally and transfer the fish when I get to the car.

5. Checking parameters before you purchase the fish and comparing to your own may help but I don't really buy into the osmotic shock when it comes to 95% of the fish we keep. Shrimp are much more sensitive but I have never had a death I thought as a result of osmotic shock with fish (providing we are not talking about going from saltwater to freshwater vice versa in an instant) If they are remotely close I have never had an issue.

Take it for what it is but that's my opinion.

Dan
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the responses. To address some questions, I am not trying to keep anything that needs very specific water parameters. Guppies, possibly Cherry Red Shrimp of some variety, Tetras, just common fish that would be typically considered "beginner" fish that can adjust to a variety of water conditions.

As for health, I know that I have most certainly bought fish that look extremely healthy from LFS that are known for having healthy fish. I have had the same experiences thus far with really healthy fish, and fish from average stores (except I have never had one die in the bag from a healthy LFS, I have from lesser places).

I am totally not against a quarantine tank, and that is totally an option. I just got to find some space. I never introduce more than about 5 fish at a time, and typically the species of fish I keep would have no trouble in a 5 gallon as a home, though most should be in a bigger tank, it wouldn't be uncommon for someone to keep what I plan to keep in a 5 gallon so that is totally an option.
 
#9 ·
I don't bother specifically turning off CO2. If you run a healthy tank O2 levels should always be good. I either add them early in the morning (after CO2 has degassed for the night) or later at night (after CO2 has degassed for an hour or two). Both have been fine.

I will echo others in stating the importance of quarantine. Only livestock I add direct to the tank are shrimp from trusted sources with no visible parasites.
 
#10 ·
Ok, so I tried the plop and drop method today with 4 guppies. It felt so strange after doing all this acclimation processes. When I started the hobby, this method was seriously looked down upon. It's only been a short time, and 3 days seems to be the threshold of survival so fingers crossed.

It was interesting. I put them in the tank, all guppies stayed at the top and were not colorful. In about 15 minutes, two decided to move down to the middle of the tank and colored up fast. Then a 3rd did the same about 5 minutes later. The 4th, was looking unhealthy and very discolored, chose to migrate down into the middle about an hour in. Now I cannot tell which is which (they are all very similar in coloration) and look healthy. I feel they look more colorful than when I bought them but that may be lighting. Guppies, in my experience, keep color better than say a Cardinal Tetra when first introduced, but still, very colorful. I feel it takes 2-3 days to get this color, when drip acclimating.

I know for myself, it's too early to tell how this is going but I have not tried this method in awhile, just as the person in the video said it sound cruel, that was the thought when I started. Now I feel that lengthy acclimation had more stress on the fish, but it's too early to tell.

I will update as things progress, I just been in and out of the hobby too much, and what was going when I started, and what seems like are "best practices" now have obviously changed. I hope things work out and I can have a well stocked tank without feeling like I kill fish and pay money to do so.
 
#11 ·
If I get fish from a hobbyist, and not a store, I don't seem to have much issue. However, even when I go to the stores in my area known for the healthiest fish, I still have this issue.
I am not trying to keep anything that needs very specific water parameters. Guppies, possibly Cherry Red Shrimp of some variety, Tetras, just common fish that would be typically considered "beginner" fish that can adjust to a variety of water conditions.

As for health, I know that I have most certainly bought fish that look extremely healthy from LFS that are known for having healthy fish. I have had the same experiences thus far with really healthy fish, and fish from average stores (except I have never had one die in the bag from a healthy LFS, I have from lesser places).

I am totally not against a quarantine tank, and that is totally an option. I just got to find some space. I never introduce more than about 5 fish at a time, and typically the species of fish I keep would have no trouble in a 5 gallon as a home, though most should be in a bigger tank, it wouldn't be uncommon for someone to keep what I plan to keep in a 5 gallon so that is totally an option.
Ok, so I tried the plop and drop method today with 4 guppies. It felt so strange after doing all this acclimation processes. When I started the hobby, this method was seriously looked down upon. It's only been a short time, and 3 days seems to be the threshold of survival so fingers crossed.

It was interesting. I put them in the tank, all guppies stayed at the top and were not colorful. In about 15 minutes, two decided to move down to the middle of the tank and colored up fast. Then a 3rd did the same about 5 minutes later. The 4th, was looking unhealthy and very discolored, chose to migrate down into the middle about an hour in. Now I cannot tell which is which (they are all very similar in coloration) and look healthy. I feel they look more colorful than when I bought them but that may be lighting. Guppies, in my experience, keep color better than say a Cardinal Tetra when first introduced, but still, very colorful. I feel it takes 2-3 days to get this color, when drip acclimating.

I know for myself, it's too early to tell how this is going but I have not tried this method in awhile, just as the person in the video said it sound cruel, that was the thought when I started. Now I feel that lengthy acclimation had more stress on the fish, but it's too early to tell.

I will update as things progress, I just been in and out of the hobby too much, and what was going when I started, and what seems like are "best practices" now have obviously changed. I hope things work out and I can have a well stocked tank without feeling like I kill fish and pay money to do so.


Couple of things jump out at me here. (your lowered car is certainly not a factor.....the fish have been shipped at least once before they made it to the store and probably more times than that and they've been bounced, jostled, thrown, kicked etc more than a few times already!) The fact that you dont have a problem when you get fish from another hobbyist; but do have a problem when you buy from a store "known to have healthy fish" speaks volumes. Getting good healthy stock to begin with can be critical for just about every species we can keep. Do you ever speak with the employees at the store to get an idea how long they've had the fish already? Could you be buying fish that they just received which would end up dead in the next 24 hours in the store anyway? Theres a real good chance of that being the case. I pretty much dont buy anything from a LFS anymore and seek out reputable online sources or even unknown sources on places like aquabid and/or through hobbyists on sites like this. I've found a much better success rate this way over the years.

"Easy beginner fish" like tetras and cherry shrimp are not always as easy as some think. Things like neon and cardinal tetras for example. I find they die when you pronounce their names wrong! They've become so popular in the hobby due to their looks and their cheap price, that it is very difficult to find healthy stock. Cherry shrimp fall into that weird category of being "easy" but time and time again people (myself included) have had trouble starting with them. I'll again chalk it up to finally finding a good source as to my success there.

Your lack of a QT tank is not the culprit. A QT tank is more important for protecting the fish you already have more than it is for the success of the newcomers. It allows you to potentially treat any disease the newcomers might have so it wont spread to what you currently keep. Sure its nice to have, but plenty of people in the hobby have been and will continue to be successful without one (I know you're not supposed to say this; but meh its the truth).

Its not that "best practices" have changed. Its just people are always looking and willing to try new things when they've failed the old way. What works for some might not work for others. What works for you this time might not work for you next time. The science behind the idea of drop and plop is quite sound if you're talking about fish that have been in a bag for multiple days. Ammonia can build up and oxygen gets depleted. Opening the bag and the sudden rush of oxygen causes everything to change rapidly. Getting the fish out of that situation as fast as possible and into stable parameters is very logical and works great!

It seems in general the hobby has "evolved" and people look at things different and realize why things work and dont work. Seems that most species (when tank bred anyway) dont seem to really care about a specific ph value, or kh value, etc. so long as the values remain consistent and aren't continually fluctuating.
 
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#12 ·
Thanks for the detailed response. I highly doubt any LFS here has fish in their tanks for more than a week. So, healthy may be retaliative. I know certain stores will not sell fish for a few days, but that's about it. There are not a lot of LFS out here, many went under after the economy crashed, and it's really expensive to operate out the Bay Area. Not trying to justify anything, but if you go to a LFS on a Sunday, everything is sold out. I noticed my friends doing saltwater have much better luck, at the same store, and now I think it's simply because the $100-300 fish they just bought may actually have been there for quite awhile because it's much harder for people to afford a $100 fish compared to a $2-3 fish. So healthy being retaliative here, I am maybe overstating it. Some places have no problem selling something that dies in a bag within 15 minutes.

As for "best practices", when I started, it was considered very cruel to not acclimate and drip acclimation was by far the most recommended way. Obviously it didn't work for me.

I understand what you mean about Neon and Cardinal Tetras, they have been really easy for me, but also challenging. Cherry Red Shrimp have always been easy for me, after the acclimation process. In fact, I have lost all my CRS overnight, but still have had offspring show up later and still started a healthy colony. Typically though, I have only struggled with the acclimation process, after that, no issues unless I completely make a mistake.

Now, the guppies that I used the plop and drop method are alive today, and look pretty healthy. Just from Petsmart, I find Petsmart isn't bad at certain locations, way better than most Petcos. Fingers crossed but I have a good feeling. One looks a bit worse than the other 3 but not unhealthy, it just isn't super colorful, but reasonably so, it may just be the natural color.
 
#13 ·
Experts agree that drip acclimation just doesn't work. It takes fish days or weeks to acclimate to a different water chemistry....if they even can (see below). As mentioned, 'plop and drop' is the best method - float the bag to equalize the temperature, then net or pour though a net into a waist bucket, then put the fish in the tank. This is especially critical with shipped fish (as mentioned) as the water they're shipped in lowers in pH and the ammonia becomes ammonium - if you drip acclimate, pH increases and ammonium turns back into ammonia = death to fish.

A BIGGER concern is your aquarium water. How fresh is it? Do you do routine partial water changes? I think lots of folks seem to think that with plants they need few, if any partial water changes. They say my plants flourish and fish are fine, they even breed. But fish can adapt to the lower pH and increased pollutants brought on by old tank syndrome. But new fish introduced may not survive such a drastic change in water quality.... It's something to think about.
 
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