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Ich!!! I am so annoyed dam pet shop!

5K views 34 replies 7 participants last post by  Dman911 
#1 ·
All, so I have been posting on here for some time and I have got invaluable information that's has helped me succeed.

I have a planted tank 240 litres and great HC carpet.

Also I have 12 new baby Fry Apisto so amazing to watch.

One problem pet shop gave me 12 silver tetra so I thought great... Put them in the tank only to realise a day later after they were in they were infected with white spot or ich... Including fin Rott...

Now I took them all back and returned them to the shop but now my fish have ich or at least showing signs as they are rubbing on plants.

I have increased the temp to 27.2 degrees. However I have fry and don't want to lose them....

I was thinking of adding lo salt as its high in Potasium and Iodine free. What's everyone's thoughts? LoSalt: FAQs | Frequently Asked Questions

Anyway I don't want to raise the temp any higher because of the fry plus I have Siamese Algae eaters and their max temp is 28 degrees so getting close here.

I am so angry with the pet shop for infecting my tank they shouldn't be on sale and if I wasn't such a newbie I should have looked but was too nieve.




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#3 ·
The pet shop should not have infected fish for sale... End of simple terms and shouldnt have had them for sale that's like selling a damage part to put in the engine of your car that then disintegrates and damages the whole engine after years of hard work. Garage wouldn't get away with it... Neither should the pet shop.

Anyway not looking to blame hence not mentioning any names I just looking for some advice.

Anyone got any words of wisdom to help me out?


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#4 ·
1. If the stress factor of your fish is minimal, then we're off to an advantages start.
2. This is huge... and I'm hoping you're going to say yes. Do you have another tank so that you can hospitalize some of your more delicate friends? If not, then you made two major mistakes here my friend and this is going to be a challenge.

3. If you have a quarantine tank, then great, turn up the temp to 82F, treat with ich medicine and pour some salt in and turn off the lights.

If you do not have any second tank... then you're just going to have roll the dice and keep the temp. up and start treating your fish and hope you lose as few as possible. You may want to treat for fungus and bacteria and ich using a three pronged approach? MELAFIX, PIMAFIX and StressCoat+ and ParaGuard are always on my shelf, above my QT tanks. I usually quarantine for 3-4 weeks, but sometimes not even that is enough and due to stress fish get sick anyhow.

Going forward, everyone should have a few bags of bio-media in mesh bags in a tank, hospital quarantine tank, at least one sponge filter that is in a running healthy tank, preferably two so that you can fire up a QT tank at will and turn off the lights. I would put one bag of media in the middle of the QT tank and put the second bag of media in an HOB filter in the QT tank if possible. Min. size of a QT tank should be 5 Gal. but 10 - 15 is ideal.

Good luck.
 
#5 ·
1. If the stress factor of your fish is minimal, then we're off to an advantages start.

2. This is huge... and I'm hoping you're going to say yes. Do you have another tank so that you can hospitalize some of your more delicate friends? If not, then you made two major mistakes here my friend and this is going to be a challenge.



3. If you have a quarantine tank, then great, turn up the temp to 82F, treat with ich medicine and pour some salt in and turn off the lights.



If you do not have any second tank... then you're just going to have roll the dice and keep the temp. up and start treating your fish and hope you lose as few as possible. You may want to treat for fungus and bacteria and ich using a three pronged approach?



Going forward, everyone should have a few bags of bio-media in mesh bags in a tank, hospital quarantine tank, at least one sponge filter that is in a running healthy tank, preferably two so that you can fire up a QT tank at will and turn off the lights. I would put one bag of media in the middle of the QT tank and put the second bag of media in an HOB filter in the QT tank if possible. Min. size of a QT tank should be 5 Gal. but 10 - 15 is ideal.



Good luck.


Many thanks.

Fish seem happier with the temp at least some. The others just got more aggressive.

I don't have a quarantine tank I thought I could treat the salt in this tank. Would that not be possible? There is no signs of white spots on my fish... Only the 12 that went back to the shop.

Can I add the lo salt? Will it kill the fry?

Or should I wait to see visible white spots? I know something is not right as they are rubbing on plants.

I am using easy life Voogle to boost their immune system.


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#6 ·
Making a partition may be your best bet! Salt is not good for your shrimp, it will probably kill them. You need to somehow create saftey zone/partition in your tank, it will obviously require some work, but considering the circumstances I don't see any other options. If you have any plans today, cancel them and see if you can come up with a way to create a partition in your tank. Since your fish are flashing, then they're sick, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. Sorry. We've all made this mistake... and think it can't happen to me, but the truth is, new fish will more times than not get sick and infect your current fish due to stress alone.

If you live near Davis Calif. I have a 5gal you can borrow and a sponge filter that you can have as well. If you have a small tank, see if your LOCAL fish store can help you out to setup a QT tank, they might? I know mine would, but then again I spend a lot of money there.

You should make sure your water has plenty of oxygen, especially since you turned up the temp, this is why a sponge filter would be best and if not, at least an airstone. All are cheap.
 
#7 ·
Don't add salt, plants don't take well to it. I am actually going through the same thing and I have dealt with it countless times in the past. Yes it is our fault and I myself absolutely know better. Having a planted tank provides more complications when dealing with ich. The key is to recognize it and treat it early. I always raise my temps to 86F (this speeds up ich lifecycle and ich cannot survive in these temps) my fish handle this np and my plants seem to be doing fine so far although I have not had to worry about plants in the past when dealing with ich so we will see. I am also treating using Kordon Ich Attack it is organic and fish, plant and invert safe (first time using this). Stay away from copper based treatments. In the past salt/temp has worked very well when treated early for me (key is early treatment) but with plants I have had to adapt. Keep temps at 86F for a min of 1 week after seeing the last spot of ich on your fish I always did 12 days just to be safe if fish are doing well. It will not kill ich during the attached portion of the life cycle. Then slowly reduce back to your desired temp. Make sure you run an airstone as high temp water hold less o2 and increase surface agitation. I reduced my Co2 a little (not sure if its necessary but I did). Changing water more regularly to help with o2 and vacuuming will help reduce the number parasites available to re-infect. There is a ton more info out there but this might get ya started. Also if you have a QT tank you can pull all the affected fish out and treat something more harsh like a copper based treatment between .5ppm and .75ppm. But I would still keep the temp on main tank high for at least 14 days to prevent re infection.

27.2C is not high enough to kill ich. This temp is used to speed up the life cycle of ich to treat it fast since its only vulnerable to medication in its free swimming stage

Dan
 
#9 ·
Don't add salt, plants don't take well to it. I am actually going through the same thing and I have dealt with it countless times in the past. Yes it is our fault and I myself absolutely know better. Having a planted tank provides more complications when dealing with ich. The key is to recognize it and treat it early. I always raise my temps to 86F (this speeds up ich lifecycle and ich cannot survive in these temps) my fish handle this np and my plants seem to be doing fine so far although I have not had to worry about plants in the past when dealing with ich so we will see. I am also treating using Kordon Ich Attack it is organic and fish, plant and invert safe (first time using this). Stay away from copper based treatments. In the past salt/temp has worked very well when treated early for me (key is early treatment) but with plants I have had to adapt. Keep temps at 86F for a min of 1 week after seeing the last spot of ich on your fish I always did 12 days just to be safe if fish are doing well. It will not kill ich during the attached portion of the life cycle. Then slowly reduce back to your desired temp. Make sure you run an airstone as high temp water hold less o2 and increase surface agitation. I reduced my Co2 a little (not sure if its necessary but I did). Changing water more regularly to help with o2 and vacuuming will help reduce the number parasites available to re-infect. There is a ton more info out there but this might get ya started. Also if you have a QT tank you can pull all the affected fish out and treat something more harsh like a copper based treatment between .5ppm and .75ppm. But I would still keep the temp on main tank high for at least 14 days to prevent re infection.



Dan


Thanks Dan! Really appreciate the response. I want the Kordon one but can't get it in the Uk for less than £70 which is extortionate prob due to Brexit. Dam government!

My tank is at 80 F or 27 degrees C in the U.K.

Fish seem OK... No white spot signs... Should I wait and just keep the temp high. They have a fantastic diet and doing daily 35 - 40% water changes.

I don't have an air stone.... Should I lower the CO2 currently at 5bps but drop checker lime green.

Remember I have fry and want to protect them...


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#13 ·
I'm actually going through ich right now, and I found this resource to be helpful. According to the article the magic temp is 86 F (30 C) which prevents both reinfection and reproduction. You need to hold this temperature for -at least- ten days, a lot of people seem to recommend two weeks. Any temperature lower than this simply speeds up the lifecycle and will probably kill your fish faster.

Using Heat to Treat Ich in Freshwater Tropical Fish - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish
 
#18 ·
to be honest most chemical treatments I have used seem to produce less favorable results in fish over salt/heat treatment in my past. But with a planted tank I can't do salt so I turned to Ich attack with it being organic. Just my reasoning behind it but I'm not claiming its the best or only treatment by any means.

Dan
 
#21 ·
Ben I just noticed I didn't answer one of your questions. If Ich Attack is to much cost wise I personally would just do the temp increase and monitor but you will need 86F no less. That is up to you though, in my experience some medications can do more harm than good but sometimes they are necessary.

Dan
 
#22 ·
Agree with @Dman911. Key thing is to keep it consistently that warm. And make sure to keep it that warm at least a week after you closely determine there is no more white spots. Not even one.


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#23 ·
If you can't get Kordon Ich Attack, I would next suggest Seachem Paraguard (similar to Formalin/Malachite Green combo meds, but instead does not use formaldehyde, so it's a safer alternative).

Higher temps make ich go through their life stages faster. So that may be advised while using a med to treat (ich eggs are not effected by the meds until they hatch. The higher temps make them hatch sooner to faster erradicate the ich). Higher temps without using a med to treat will only make the infestations multiply faster (making your fish worse). At 86*F though, ich stops reproducing. At 89*F, ich dies. But as you are aware, the fish also may not tolerate these extreme high temps very well either (which is why I resort to Kordon Ich Attack as the safest method).

I would just use Paraguard and maybe have the temp at 78*F. Fish getting abnormally aggressive/irritated is a sign of stress (not good, whether it's the higher temps, or infection). Remember to treat for an additional 3-4 days (depending on temp) after all visible signs of ich are gone. You can increase surface agitation also.
 
#24 ·
Many thanks all for advice so it turns out that all my fish are now infected. Temp is currently 31degrees Celsius so pretty hot it's like a hot tub. Fish seem a little better with the heat and the fry seem OK minus the white spots on them and their mother. Grrrr.

Anyway found 6 pink amano shrimp as I forgot they were in the tank as it was too hot and they cooked.

I am not adding any salt but I am treating with heat and microbe lift artemiss that the pet shop gave me.

Also I went back and they said they didn't know I pointed them to the tank where I got them from in their own shop an there was 6 dead tetra in there and 4 or so swimming upside down. The manager walked in and did a bit of shouting then put not for sale stickers on about 12 tanks as apparently they are all connected or run off the same filter or something. The woman in the shop said all fish have it all the time I have read some stuff online but I really don't think that is true as my fish were perfect before. Anyway lessons learned for me and the pet shop I think.

Anyway so treating with heat and with the herbal stuff smells like Mints in the tank I would use Kordon but you can't get it in the UK. So not good.

I have added an air pump on full blast and turn lights down to just 4 hours a day as I have plants too and a full HC carpet.

I will let you know how the treatment goes but I hope the heat kills it off.


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#26 ·
How quickly did you crank the temp? I've got about a dozen amanos in my tank and they're happy as clams at 30 C.

As far as I've been able to tell from my own research, elevated temps will take care of Ich except one especially heat-tolerant strain out of Florida. Just make sure you keep the temps up for 10-14 days and then lower the temp slowly so the fish can re-acclimate. Also, I hope the pet store didn't make you pay for that microbe lift stuff because Ich is a parasite, not a bacteria or fungus, so I doubt it'll do anything. The only "medication" I've read to be suggested along with the heat treatment is Stress Coat, to help damaged tissues heal faster.
 
#28 ·
How quickly did you crank the temp? I've got about a dozen amanos in my tank and they're happy as clams at 30 C.



As far as I've been able to tell from my own research, elevated temps will take care of Ich except one especially heat-tolerant strain out of Florida. Just make sure you keep the temps up for 10-14 days and then lower the temp slowly so the fish can re-acclimate. Also, I hope the pet store didn't make you pay for that microbe lift stuff because Ich is a parasite, not a bacteria or fungus, so I doubt it'll do anything. The only "medication" I've read to be suggested along with the heat treatment is Stress Coat, to help damaged tissues heal faster.


Sorry man missed this. Well my tank used to sit at 23 - 24.5 during day because of the lights it's now 32C [emoji51]. I want them to burn they keep coming back. I know people say they are always in tanks but I do not believe this after this experience they are only ever introduced I believe if you don't kill them off they can sit there and not be noticed and just sit on the gills of the fish. However I want to kill them completely.

I am also dosing well extended dosing of ESHA Exit and ESHA 2000 it states dose for 3 days but I have been dosing 5.

I have several baby Apisto in the tank that the mother has abandoned as she has layed more eggs so I think the heat is fine. I cranked it up over a few hours fish seem OK.

The only ones effected was the Siamese algae eaters but then again their max temp is 28C and tank is currently 32. However they are fine now and have acclimatised well feeding etc.




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#27 ·
Ok so seem to still be treating ICH... I have to say the increase heat and oxygen in the tank is killing the HC carpet all other plants seem OK but this is having a big effect on the HC.

The ICH kept coming back so I have now increased the heat to 32C...... Die you dam parasite.... Also dosing with ESHA Exit and Esha 2000. Fish seem OK... Maybe a little bit warm it's like a hot tub.

Do you think this will kill the ICH? Going to leave the heat there until Thursday. No flickering at this heat and no white spots so 4 days at this heat should do it right?


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#29 ·
Also I have Amano Shrimp and I thought they cooked. But they didn't they were just shredding skin I didn't know they did that [emoji3]. To my surprise they are actually ok and don't mind the ESHA since its shrimp and plant safe... Just the heat effecting the HC carpet is my problem. Lost half of it....



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#33 ·
I used heat and ick attack but I only used it initially to kill any free swimmers 1 dose. From then on it was heat only. After 6 days not 1 single spot of ich left on any fish. Kept heat at 88 for 14 days total. I have done this a lot over my years of keeping/breeding fish and it has rarely failed and if it did It was usually me not keeping the temp high enough or long enough. I usually used salt in addition to heat but anything that helps prevent secondary infection would be good. Because I'm lazy I only changed 25% 2 times a week more often is better 10% a day would be best but to much work for me. The purpose is to try and vacuum out the cysts. To be honest there is not much to it other than add high enough heat for a long enough duration and keep nitrates below 20ppm during treatment and for a bit after before bringing your dosing back up. During any fight against infection, parasite etc. I try to keep 10 ppm. Anything that you can do to lower the stress of fish is going to help too, feeding a little more often, excellent water quality, lower light intensity. Dropping your temp for 1 day before all the ich is killed off could result in a complete re infection and a need to start completely over. So it key high enough temp long enough duration. Above 86F I do 88 incase I'm 1-2 degrees off on thermometer for 14 days has always worked for me. Like someone else said apparently there is a strain out of Florida that is more heat resistant but I have never had a run in with it yet.

Dan
 
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