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Fishless Cycle

4K views 34 replies 9 participants last post by  Qsilver7850 
#1 ·
I found a great deal on a 20 gallon high, so I set it up with an AquaClear 50 and got it running. I treated the water with water conditioner. Then, I took a bit of filter media from another tank, threw it in the AquaClear with other new media, squeezed out a prefilter in the 20, and added some ammonia.

I tested the water after two days (had to wait for the API test kit to arrive), and the ammonia was over 8 ppm, and I had no Nitrites or Nitrates. I did a water change and got the ammonia down to around 4 ppm.

Did I kill all the beneficial bacteria I introduced from the other tank?
 
#4 ·
If I could afford to plant heavily, I would. I have some plants in another tank that I may move over, but I wanted to cycle without the lights to avoid algae.

I really thought I was being clever moving the filter media. Can't believe I overdosed the ammonia. Should I do another water change to drop the ammonia some more?
 
#9 ·
G'day
This is my first post, but I have a fair bit of experience with fishless cycling, so I thought I would pipe in and hopefully my experiences can help others.

Please excuse excused my long winded comments and slow replies.

I am suffering chronic pain and chronic depression thanks to a Workplace injury. The meds affect my brain and I'm often repeating myself, or forgetting specific words which will have me either trying to describe the word, or putting my phone down and waiting until I can remember the word. I'm also unreliable as I find I'm overrun with mail and other groups I subscribe to. I'm also learning Tapatalk and how it works.

Anyways back to the topic...

Aside from my first tank which caused a lot of stress thanks to some bad advice from the local fish shop. All my other tanks have been cycled with ammonia and without fish.
I have found I can cycle smaller tanks in about 5-7 days.
5 drops of ammonia into a 5 litre tank will result in 4ppm of ammonia. Unfortunately 1drop per litre doesn't result in 4ppm, but the smaller tanks come close.

The formula that I use will come close to a week to cycle.

4ppm for ammonia, so test daily.
About mid week the ammonia level will slowly drop, so add ammonia to maintain 4ppm.
The Nitrites will start to show as Ammonia drops.
About the next day the Ammonia will drop fast. The Nitrates will also jump.
Keep pumping Ammonia into the tank to maintain 4ppm.
Towards the end of the week the nitrates will start to show, so keep the Ammonia at 4ppm.
Over the next day or 2 the Nitrates will hit 60ppm or higher. It will be a very dark red on the API test kit. And the others will drop to 0ppm.
The tank is now cycled, but to ensure a strong bacteria level, keep adding up to 4ppm Ammonia for a few days longer. This will prevent a crash if something goes wrong.

While adding Ammonia try and keep the pH to around 7 which is the preferred level for the bacteria.

On the day, but after adding the Ammonia get a filter pad from an established tank and squeeze it in the tank water near the filter inlet so it gets sucked up. Squeeze around the tank as well, so the bacteria has a chance to settle on the substrate. Another good thing is to add some noodles from an established tank and pop them into the filter.

Keep the temperature at 27 Celsius as that is the ideal temperature the bacteria prefer

The bacteria can handle up to 5ppm, and some suggest that, but higher will slow the cycle down and even kill it off.

I have also cycled bigger tanks and generally they can cycle in a week, but my experiences show that a 70 litre tank will cycle at a week, but that's probably the cutoff as bigger will take a little longer.

Another tip which confuses some and can mess up the cycle.
When doing a fishless cycle we cycle it up to or near a fully stocked tank. Because of this, a full tank of fish need to be added up front.
Some who cycle fishless will then add fish in smaller groups as if a fish cycle which then results in the bacteria dying off to the level that is right for the amount of fish that are currently in the tank. Some believe that the bacteria isn't dead, just hybernating and will wake up as needed. They are half right according to my experiences. It will still go through a mini cycle, even though there's sufficient bacteria there. Some fish losses may result from adding too many fish at once.

I'll save up for the fish I want, then when I can afford it, I'll do a fishless cycle and when I'm ready to stock the tank, I'll do a good water change, then add the fish. If it will be a planted tank, I'll also plant some plants and over the next few days I'll scape it up , add Co2 if the tank is designed for it, and gradually raise the Co2 to the desired levels so as not to shock the fish.

I hope I have covered everything, and while long, I hope it says all that's needed and helps others.

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#10 ·
Thanks StevenDon. I did research after my initial posting and found a user named DrTim on another forum. He was a microbiologist and had some interesting things to say, including that the bacteria go dormant rather than die when they don't have enough food/ammonia. It was interesting to read about his research as it compares to many people's opinions in the aquarium trade.

I didn't get a chance to test my tank yesterday, but tonight I plan to. I'm hoping there has been some change and that maybe I didn't destroy the bacteria colony as I thought I did.
 
#11 ·
I just recycled my tank (effectevly) by dosing 4ppm of ammonia (I was trying to kill a pest. It failed but that is a different thread) with the plants still in. It took about a week for the ammonia to drop and then the nitrites have taken about another week. 2 things: long term it will melt old leaves of plants, I have an anubias plant with a nice hole in an otherwise healthy (older) leaf, a couple of other plants lost some older leaves too (others still seem to have loved it and took off). I sped it up by taking media from a HOB on another tank and putting it in my canister after the ammonia dropped, did the job really well. Nitrite => nitrate bacteria can be killed by high levels of ammonia so that is where my processes seemed to be stalling.
The canister was established before I dumped the ammonia in, so yes it is likely that 4.0ppm could have harmed the bacteria but I think that also depends on the PH of the water (Ammonia vs Ammonium). My water makes ammonia a little more likely to be toxic due to a high (8.0 - 8.2) Ph.

Dr.Tim's ideas are interesting and do, to some extent, make sense. I do believe that different bacteria handle the lack of food differently, and some do die off. Not sure about what we call Benifical bacteria though. There are certainly environmental conditions that will kill them though, and High ammonia is probably one.

Don't worry though, all will cycle and be fine after a little while.
 
#12 ·
I tested the ammonia and it's down to 2 ppm, but I'm still at 0 nitrites. Is that possible? Maybe I just misread it before.

I've gone out and purchased a 6500k t8 bulb for low light plants. It felt like a struggle to actually get that bulb to fit in there, is that a common problem? Also thinking I should replace the starter. There's a hole in it. But when I try to pull it out it's very stubborn, any trick to replacing that?

And finally, there's this weird staining on the back of the aquarium. It's on the outside, and I tried both water and Windex. The white buildup goes away when wet but returns when dry. What is this stuff? I've attached a picture.
 

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#13 ·
I tested the ammonia and it's down to 2 ppm, but I'm still at 0 nitrites. Is that possible? Maybe I just misread it before.
I can answer this part of the question. This sounds perfectly normal. You will not see nitrites until the bacteria establishes itself that converts ammonia to nitrites. This is part of the cycle. You will then need to wait will a different set of bacteria establishes itself that converts nitrites to nitrates.
 
#18 ·
If the tank can convert it, it shouldn't be an issue except where nitrites or nitrates are concerned. Water conditioners that can detoxify ammonia can make it harmless as long as the tank is cycled.

You may want to consider using remineralized RO/DI water for peace of mind. You will have better control over the parameters and less worry about the parameters going out of whack.
 
#19 ·
That's true. I've thought of installing a system for RO before, but it's a little pricey. Besides, we're renting at the moment, so we may have different water once we relocate in April. Probably best just to re-evaluate at that point.

Ah, the joy of moving with aquariums.

Although, Petco is having their dollar per gallon sale. I figured I'd never be able to find a better deal on a new tank, so I bought a replacement for the aging 20 gal I'm using now. When we move I'll take the opportunity to switch tanks. Speaking of peace of mind! The adhesive on the one I use now looks pretty rough.
 
#20 ·
I've seen RO Buddy recommended a lot. Can easily take it with you. There are other ones as well.


Many grocery stores, some pharmacy stores and LFS also sell RO/DI water for 28-50 cents a gallon. Bring your own containers or possibly buy some there. (as a thought, have done this myself)



Gotta love the dollar per gallon sales!
 
#27 ·
I had this exact thought, so I've changed up what I'm doing. I did a complete water change to lower Ammonia and added 3 bloodfin tetras plus a bottle of Tetra SafeStart Plus. I also weeded my other tank and planted java fern, anubias, and a couple crypts.

Not really fishless anymore, eh?
 
#29 · (Edited)
I've heard they are hardy, and I was already interested in them anyway, so I thought why not. In a group of three they do seem to be skittish. I'm hoping once I get more they liven up a bit. I plan to stock 8 of them along with a betta and probably some Cherry Shrimp once their population overtakes my five gallon.

By the way klibs, kudos on your sexy Nicholas Cage profile picture. His stare... It's mesmerizing.
 

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#30 ·
Possible for small errors on the test set readings? Not the finest quality kits to start and small changes in lighting and the way we see colors can sometimes skew things. I would continue to wait and watch, assuming that all is going okay.
Meanwhile, depending on how long the other tank has been running, it is quite possible to swap out a bit more of the old media and still speed up the current process.
But that takes some judgement and being ready to control the ammonia if you step over the line and remove too much media. But if the older tank has been running longer term, there will be a lot of bacteria all over the tank walls, plants, filter box etc. so just removing part of the media is often okay if one is not running terribly close to overstocked.
If doing this to speed the new tank cycle, just be aware of the hazard to the old and watch for any potential trouble?
Water changes are my first line of defense but it may also help to cut back on feeding for the short term.
 
#31 ·
Meanwhile, depending on how long the other tank has been running, it is quite possible to swap out a bit more of the old media and still speed up the current process.
Unfortunately the other tank is smaller and I've moved over a significant portion of the media, so I don't want to move over anything else for fear of a mini cycle.

Also I've been doing lots of research on how SafeStart works, and it seems that leaving it for the recommended 14 days has best results. No water changes unless parameters get way out of whack. Some ammonia is a normal part of the process.

So far, the bloodfins are acting natural, eating. The water is clear. I'll keep a close eye on it but I think so far, so good.
 
#32 ·
I'm trying to remember what I've read lol.
Yeah, bad memory these days.

Anyways...

In regards to the Windex, I have never used it myself, but I have done a lot of reading when I first started as a LFS gave me bad advice. Everywhere I've read, it's said that Windex is bad, and to use a watered down vinegar.

Looking at your photo I see the white, and it's something I wouldn't tolerate.
Are you sure it's on the outside? Maybe get a fishtank scourer pad and try to clean the inside. Or at least touch it and try your fingernail to see if it's inside. That much white should be able to be felt.
The tank is looking good, can't wait to see it when it's established.


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