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Originally Posted by Hypancistrus
Nitrates and phosphates coming from fish and fish food has been the standard practice of the Europeans, Dutch, and Asians for quite some time now. It works great for them, and they always beat the Americans in the big contests.
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Methods do not define art.
Art does not define methods.
Many have high NO3 and PO4 in their tap water, Dutch and Germans and the English for example. I know folks there, it's an issue and has been.
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Take a look at the majority of the published ADA specs and tanks, and they don't dose nitrates and phosphates. ADA does make their own nitrate + phosphate product, and they themselves don't use it on the majority of their high light, CO2 injected tanks.
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They have plenty of NO3 and PO4 in these tanks, it's called sediment
. You can add it to the water column or the sediment or both places.
The issue is when folks make stupid claims they have not even bothered to analyze suggesting that it's bad for fish and causes algae to have water column ferts for NO3 and PO4.
That is clearly poppy cock.
That also has no bearing on many tanks, say this example of James who in 8 months in the hobby managed to win the overall AGA contest:
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.or...=0&vol=2&id=71
Ricky's:
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.or...=0&vol=2&id=43
and Erik's:
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.or...=0&vol=2&id=18
Now, mister expert, what do you have?
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It's the Americans who got behind the whole EI thing with "nitrates and phosphates don't cause algae, buy farm products and dump loads of them in." And it's always people following these techniques that have loads of problems.
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Actually it's the reverse, we have seen a massive change since EI came about, in the level and abilities to grow a wide range of plants much easier.
I see plenty of folks that have issues using ADA stuff, as well as any and every method.
You see what you want to see and need to frequent more boards outside the USA then if you honestly think this way.
However, it's obvious you have an agenda here that has little to do with Yamato green.
A product I have used in the past and supported.........
Understanding things means you need to use them, understand why they work, not that they do just for you.
If you have problems with a method, it is your fault, not the methods.
Most any method can be forced and tweaked.
That is all I did with PMDD, EI is not really my method, nor is Yamato green this guys.
They each have the same items, with more coming from various sources than the other(fish vs inorganic). Growth rates make a huge difference as do the plants, they are flexible.
If I had not bothered to test and induce algae in the past, I suspect many folks would still be chasing algae correlations and ghost. Those are not my methods either, they are standard methods in research.
All I did was justify things more, argue for, and add a few things to tweak a method better, same for ADA, non CO2 methods, Marine methods etc.
I'm hardly one dimensional with respect to methods or design.
I use them all to achieve the goals I have.
Some trade offs are not worth while for some goals, some are.
You need to show the lab grade stuff is really a significant difference.
You have never done that and I have plenty of lab grade stuff myself, here at my lab
As well as about 12 years using ag grade stuff also.
What do you think they use in larger scale Fert studies?
Regards,
Tom Barr