Will Excel melt water onion? - The Planted Tank Forum

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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Will Excel melt water onion?

I am setting up a new tank as a beginner. On a whim I included Crinum thaianum (water onion). While choosing plants, I avoided vals and anacharis because I read they were susceptible to Excel. Now I am wondering about the onion, too.

Anyone experienced problems with this? I guess there is only one way to find out and that is to use it and hope for the best.

Thanks.

-Nate

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 01:18 PM
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From my experience I can say that Easy Carbo (more or less the same as Excel) http://www.easylife.nl/en/freshwater...tion/easycarbo doesn't have any impact on my Valls, while the Elodea and Cabomba started to melt. I stopped with Easy Carbo for a week and I started to use ProFito: universal fertilizer http://www.easylife.nl/en/freshwater...rition/profito . I added some new Elodea plants on Friday and from today I will start again to add easy Carbo but in combo with ProFito and 1/2 of the recommended dose. lets hope it will not burn the plants again.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 01:54 PM
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Water Onion

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateBW View Post
I am setting up a new tank as a beginner. On a whim I included Crinum thaianum (water onion). While choosing plants, I avoided vals and anacharis because I read they were susceptible to Excel. Now I am wondering about the onion, too.

Anyone experienced problems with this? I guess there is only one way to find out and that is to use it and hope for the best.

Thanks.

-Nate
Hello Nate...

If you're referring to the product with the trace of "Glut", my experience with this Seachem product is it can have a negative affect on ferns, mosses and some varieties of Vallisneria. These are classified as primitive plants, not sure what that means exactly. Anyway, if you start with a lower dose a couple of times a week and monitor the plant, it should be fine. If it does well with the smaller dose, then you can go from there.

I thought the stuff was a little pricey, but I have several, larger tanks. I've found a couple of liquids that work well and don't contain the industrial form of carbon.

Just one reporter's opinion.

B

"Fear not my child, just change the tank water."
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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BBradbury,

Yikes! Does java fern count as a "primitive plant" then?

Care to send names or links to the alternative liquid carbon sources? Fis sent some that I am looking into.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 03:14 PM
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Excel won't hurt your Java Ferns. They're just super-slow growers (when compared to many stem plants) and there's not a lot you can do to speed things up.

What other plants do you keep? What's your lighting? What other ferts are you using?
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 03:16 PM
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I also have Java moss, moss balls and Java Fern and they are all doing good with the Easy Carbo
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 03:24 PM
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I have used Excel at half the recommended dose in a tank with a huge Crinum calamistratum with no ill effects that I could see.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fis View Post
I also have Java moss, moss balls and Java Fern and they are all doing good with the Easy Carbo
Can one get Easy Carbo in the US?

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
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Talking

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Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
Excel won't hurt your Java Ferns. They're just super-slow growers (when compared to many stem plants) and there's not a lot you can do to speed things up.

What other plants do you keep? What's your lighting? What other ferts are you using?

SWS,

Here is the setup:

lighting - 18W X 2 T5HO
2-3 inches of Gravel w/ 25% fluorite
No ferts yet - fishless cycle with low tech plans.

Any help is welcome!

You cans see more: My 37 Gallon Low Tech Adventure

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 03:33 PM
fis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateBW View Post
Can one get Easy Carbo in the US?
It's a European company but maybe it is imported to the USA

BTW just checked Amazon and I got this

http://www.amazon.com/Easy-Life-USEC...rds=Easy+Carbo

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_sr_pe...ode=2619533011
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 05:15 PM
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Looks like you've got quite a bit of light and very few, undemanding plants.

Have you referred to the sticky in the lighting forum to help determine your light levels? You may need to lessen the amount of light you have in your tank.

Excel shouldn't be necessary with your current plants if your lighting levels are in check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateBW View Post
SWS,

Here is the setup:

lighting - 18W X 2 T5HO
2-3 inches of Gravel w/ 25% fluorite
No ferts yet - fishless cycle with low tech plans.

Any help is welcome!

You cans see more: My 37 Gallon Low Tech Adventure
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 07:15 PM
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Primitive Plants

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BBradbury,

Yikes! Does java fern count as a "primitive plant" then?

Care to send names or links to the alternative liquid carbon sources? Fis sent some that I am looking into.
Hello Nate...

Certain aquatic plants are called "primitive" because of how they use water and specific nutrients. It has to do with the tissues that make up the plant. The trace of "Gluteraldehyde" in Flourish Excel, can damage some primitive plants, like algae, ferns, mosses and some kinds of Vallisneria. I didn't have a good experience with it. My ferns, mosses and "Corkscrew" Vals were damaged. The Vals died off, but the others recovered in a couple of months.

Some users, swear by it, but it's expensive if you have multiple tanks and dose according to instructions. If you have lower light, then I'd recommend TetraFlora. If you have brighter light, then Yamato Green has a good liquid fert. Long term though, I haven't found anything better than the stuff the fish produce. I just feed a balanced diet.

Just me telling you what's worked.

B

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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BBradbury,

Excellent. Thank you.

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 09:07 PM
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Excel does not harm ferns when you follow directions on packaging. That's bad advice above. And as jart mentioned above, you're save with your onion plant.

Plants aren't considered primitive because of the way they use water and specific nutrients. They're primitive because they're actually primitive - like algae, ferns and mosses (even liverworts). Primitive plants don't reproduce with seeds.

If you need fertilizers - and you likely won't need much, as you don't have much of a plant load and don't have demanding plants - you can buy dry ferts at a fraction of the cost of liquid. The amount of light you have won't dictate the brand of fertilizer you buy. A combination of light levels, CO2 and the plants you have will determine how much you need to use, though.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
Excel does not harm ferns when you follow directions on packaging. That's bad advice above. And as jart mentioned above, you're save with your onion plant.

Plants aren't considered primitive because of the way they use water and specific nutrients. They're primitive because they're actually primitive - like algae, ferns and mosses (even liverworts). Primitive plants don't reproduce with seeds.

If you need fertilizers - and you likely won't need much, as you don't have much of a plant load and don't have demanding plants - you can buy dry ferts at a fraction of the cost of liquid. The amount of light you have won't dictate the brand of fertilizer you buy. A combination of light levels, CO2 and the plants you have will determine how much you need to use, though.
This is correct. The primitive plants that I know are susceptible to excel are bryophytes (liverworts, mosses, and hornworts) and pteriodophytes (ferns) are the most primitive embryophytes, or land plants. Most of the plants we use are seed or flowering plants, the most advanced. This suggests that excel has a toxic effect to photosynthetic organisms, and plants seemed to have evolved a way to use it.


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