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Plant Deficiency - Help

4K views 34 replies 12 participants last post by  MykeVS 
#1 ·
Hi all, i recently started a new 50 gallon planted tank and have been struggling with it. I transplanted several swords from my old tank which have melted either from the transplant or a deficiency. I just had my water tested and everything checked out. PH was 7.2, no ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. I purchased some newer plants, an ozelot and a green melon sword. Both have struggled. I'm using eco complete in this new tank with flourish tabs. I'm dosing Flourish weekly during water changes and Excel daily. I'm also running CO2 but perhaps not enough. Aside from the new plants starting to melt the new growth is lacking. It looks torn, and thin. Some of the older leaves have brown discoloration around the edges. My LFS said it could be a phosphorous deficiency but I never had that issue before. I had more luck in my old tank just running CaribSea naturals and flourish tabs. Could it be something else ? I've attached some photos.

https://goo.gl/photos/rrAYgFBts7cWpHGx5
 
#2 ·
Well zero nitrates is really bad for plants. You want at least 5 and typically 10-30ppm is preferred with .5 to 3ppm of phosphate. You need to dose macros as it seems you do not have enough especially if your reading of 0 nitrates is true. Nitrates is one of the most important nutrients for plants.

Yup I just looked at the pics and see how they are yellow that 100% is nitrate deficiency. You should purchase some micro and macro ferts from nilocG as that will give you all the plants need.
http://nilocg.com/diy-ei-liquid-fertilizer/

You also could have phosphourus deficiency I. Addition. Get a phosphate test kit and will show what your level is. Try and keep nitrate and phosphate in the 10:1 ratio. For example if nitrate is 10ppm shoot for 1ppm phosphates.
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#3 ·
I'm in the same boat. No nitrates and sword and Vals not doing well. My Crypts and anubias are going strong though. Need some ferts.

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#4 ·
You shouldn't have 0 nitrates they are important for your plants. Both the Flourish tabs and the Flourish Comprehensive have similar compositions which is mainly micro nutrients. You need to start dosing macro nutrients (such as nitrates) in some way. I would recommend low-tech EI or something like that, have a look at using dry fertilisers too for cost effectiveness. Your plants probably do have a deficiency in either nitrates, phosphates or potassium.
The CO2 and Excel isn't really helping as your lacking nutrients but the CO2 and Excel are increasing growth rates which the plants cannot sustain. You don't really need to use both Excel and injected CO2, I would just stick to injected CO2.
BTW Eco-complete doesn't actually have nutrients in it so that won't feed your plants either.
Basically I agree with what Clownplanted said but you don't need to get test kits just follow the low-tech EI (calculator on rotalabutterfly.com ) for simplicity.


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#7 ·
You need the main *macro* nutrients: NPK (N=nitrogen; P=phosphorous; K=potassium). Place a single API-brand Root Tab at the base of your amazon sword and it will come right back.

API Root Tabs: Work great at providing macro (the most important) fertilizers to root-feeding plants like amazon swords.
Flourish Tabs: Provide lots of additional nutrients that the API Tabs don't provide, but they don't have enough of the macro nutrients.

Root tabs will work better than liquid fertilizers for amazon swords. Other plants, especially floating ones, will respond better to liquid ferts.
 
#10 ·
If you really want to succeed with plants they will need food just as the fish do.

Flourish Comprehensive is not enough long term.
If Flourish N, P, K, Fe, and Trace are added it can work.
It will be costly and you'll use a lot of it and dose from many different bottles.

Thrive is a complete solution containing almost everything.
Almost, if your water is very soft you may need a GH booster.
Meaning you only add some GH booster with a water change.
This is a much simpler approach.
If your plant load is smaller start with 1/3 dosing and build up if needed.

Thrive+ is for softer water tanks <7.0 pH.

Hope this helps to some degree.
Enjoy the Experiment!:grin2:
 
#11 ·
You tank is new, you don't need Thrive Plus.

As it was explained, you need macros. Flourish provides micros. By using Thrive, you will cover everything and won't have to use the Flourish anymore. It is simple to use, I use Thrive in my tanks.

I agree with Opare about dosing. I would not dose according to the instructions. That would be a lot of plant food for a new tank. I dose half the recommended amount once a week. My tanks are made up of mostly slow growers under low light, so they don't need tons of food.
 
#14 ·
I started dosing Thrive today. I was on vacation the past week and am stunned and how these plants have totally gone south. Even my watersprite has given up the ghost, I mean I can't even grow weeds ? I'm just stunned how far south this has gone. My green ozelot just floated to the surface, it hasn't rooted into the eco complete and it's been 3 weeks. I have almost no plants left and now I'm getting algae. The only thing different from this tank and the old one is the ecocomplete. At least the fish seem content..
 
#15 ·
What's your lighting situation like? Also, they probably really started going south because they have been starved of nutrients for a while, and then add another week onto that. Maybe consider getting some new plants and just starting fresh, staying on top of dosing etc. The dying plants are contributing to the algae growth I would remove anything that looks bad.


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#16 ·
You need to at least trim all the dead stuff of or as @Opare said will contribute to algae. Continue with thrive and as long as you have decent light you will see a turn around. As already said what light do you have?


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#17 ·
So it's a 54 corner which I know can be difficult to light. I'm running one 36" satellite + pro across the top and a smaller one down the middle, basically a "T" on top. That's more light than I had on my 45 tall which I'd assumed would be sufficient. I started pulling all the dead stuff this morning. Maybe I'll just wipe everything out and start over. Don't know why my flourish/excel regiment doesn't seem to work anymore. Is it possible to have too much filtration ? I'm going to test my nitrates again. Appreciate everyone's input.
 
#19 ·
Your previous regiment may not work anymore maybe because in your previous tank the livestock provided enough nutrients possibly. Like I said earlier Flourish provides only micro nutrients, so having success dosing just that will be unlikely. Excel is just a carbon supplement and doesn't actually provide nutrients, it is quite redudant if you are running CO2. Also, the increased light may be making the plants more nutrient hungry. Filtration won't really affect your nutrient levels. Did you inject CO2 in your previous tank as well? Injected CO2 will also make the plants more hungry.
Yes you should see higher nitrates when dosing Thrive. It contains nitrates which are good for your plants. 10-20ppm is a decent range, you can actually have a pretty high level of nitrates before it becomes problematic.


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#23 ·
Myke, I always struggled with sword plants with my ecocomplete so I thought that was the cause. I had the exact same problems as you were experiencing. Then I thought I wasn't dosing enough even tho I EI dose and put root tabs underneath it. It turned out I buried my plants too deep and covered the crown. I pulled it up a little bit and now my leaves are healthy for a long time and it even sent a runner.
 
#25 ·
Well i threw out all the dead plants today. The tank had just deteriorated to the point where I thought I would start over. I bought some new swords from petco, ludwigia and who knows what as none of the stuff was labeled correctly. Pretty sure I got pennywort as well. We'll see what happens, I'm dosing Thrive still although honestly Flourish always worked for me in the past. I used root tabs under the swords. I'm at a point where the only thing left is my lighting. My water sprite disintegrated and whats left is growing slightly thicker leaves. My val has put out some new growth as well. My hydrocotyle japan is basically shot. So things I thought would do well if I had too much light dont seem to be doing that well either. Perhaps I'll remove my 2nd led pro and go with one and see what happens if this next batch of swords shares the same fate as the others. Trying to get stem plants, or any plants to stay in eco complete is extremely frustrating. Next time I'll either cap it or use a different substrate.
 
#27 ·
I posted some pics of the new plants. It's been about a week but early results don't seem favorable. Perhaps it's acclimating but my swords have browns spots and no growth to speak of really. Nothing really shows any growth yet. My crypts which i transplanted out of my old tank are the only plants putting out new growth which i thought was weird. I am getting some brown algae now. Nothing crazy but it is growing. Not looking so hot right now. The watersprite is trying to make a comeback but you can see the new growth is not very fine and seems thicker. Water parameters all seem normal, fish are healthy. At some point i have to change something or go back to plastic plants, lol. I miss my old tank :/

https://goo.gl/photos/rrAYgFBts7cWpHGx5
 
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