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L. Aromatica issue, advice needed?

3K views 41 replies 11 participants last post by  Nlewis 
#1 · (Edited)
So to get started here are some parameters.

Tank - 40b
Gh - 4
Kh - 6
Ph - 6.8 / around 5.9 at peak co2
Lighting - high
Ferts - dry dosing EI
Macros: kno3 5/16 tsp, kh2po4 1/16 tsp
Micros: csmb 1/16 tsp
Temp - 77

So, here's the issue I'm encountering. The plant gets to a point and stops growing and spits out side shoots. The side shoots grow great but the main stem goes into limbo. I trim the shoots and plant them and it grows to a point and stops. At this point it starts with the side shoots again. It's a constant rinse and repeat scenario with this plant and I just can't figure it out.
 
#8 ·
Beautiful tank! I too have a love / hate relationship with this plant. It's just so fragile, but I've fought pretty hard to keep it going.

I do find that despite it being so easy to tear leaves off when moving/planting, it holds up surprisingly well in heavier flow. I have about 50 PAR sitting over it with no added iron, and they are staying a pretty nice purplish color.

A few thoughts and questions:

Are you trimming the main stem before the shoots develop? I purposefully trimmed the main stems to get shoots to develop and kept trimming them to like 6" or so. This helped them grow out nice and quick for me.

Your pH during prime photosynthesis time is pretty low, but I'm not sure if that matters for these or not. Just a thought and probably not the issue (my tank is 7.4ph, 6 gh, 3kh for reference).

Also, I do know these prefer a little harder water, so maybe that could be part of it too? I would think GH of 4 would be fine though.

Again, just tossing out some of what I've seen and a couple of thoughts. I'm definitely not an expert on these (or much else) yet :)

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
#17 ·
Dwarf hair grass.

Bump:
Lots of stem plants do this when something isnt right. The main top stunts, stops growing and then side shoots form. It's like the plant says eff it and decides to start over.

I believe you have a fert issue, although Im not sure what it is exactly. Just going by the pics the plant looks low on Fe, it's pale with no red or pink color a all. My aromatica does this for two reasons, too much csmb, or not enough Fe.

Looks like you are dosing csmb at roughly .1 ppm Fe. That is a reasonable amount, it's too much for some people (like me) but less than a lot of people dose.

Personally I would cut that in half and add an additional form of Fe to make up the difference, or even raise it a little. No idea if this would work, it's just what I'd probably try first.

Either that or leave csmb like it is and dose additional Fe on top of it, another .05 ppm or so to begin with, or maybe .1

Or the simplest thing to try is bump csmb up a little, something like .12 or .15 ppm and see what happens. Things will either get better or worse. Go from there.

Also saw your thread on persistent BBA. To me that sounds like the tank is getting too much micros, but it could also be a number of other things.

Every tank has a sweet spot where the proverbial "light comes on." Plants perk up, the water gets clearer, and nuisance algae goes away. It's there, you just have to find it. :)
I'll try adding another .1ppm of fe via 10% DTPA this week and see what happens.
 
#13 ·
Lots of stem plants do this when something isnt right. The main top stunts, stops growing and then side shoots form. It's like the plant says eff it and decides to start over.

I believe you have a fert issue, although Im not sure what it is exactly. Just going by the pics the plant looks low on Fe, it's pale with no red or pink color a all. My aromatica does this for two reasons, too much csmb, or not enough Fe.

Looks like you are dosing csmb at roughly .1 ppm Fe. That is a reasonable amount, it's too much for some people (like me) but less than a lot of people dose.

Personally I would cut that in half and add an additional form of Fe to make up the difference, or even raise it a little. No idea if this would work, it's just what I'd probably try first.

Either that or leave csmb like it is and dose additional Fe on top of it, another .05 ppm or so to begin with, or maybe .1

Or the simplest thing to try is bump csmb up a little, something like .12 or .15 ppm and see what happens. Things will either get better or worse. Go from there.

Also saw your thread on persistent BBA. To me that sounds like the tank is getting too much micros, but it could also be a number of other things.

Every tank has a sweet spot where the proverbial "light comes on." Plants perk up, the water gets clearer, and nuisance algae goes away. It's there, you just have to find it. :)
 
#16 ·
From what Ive seen in my own tanks, the growth pattern is typical for many types of stem plants when something isnt right and the plant's not happy. The reason could be anything.

The aromatica is so pale is what makes me think it is Fe/micros issue. But that's just a guess.

CO2 is always the first thing one should rule out whenever something isnt right. Then

If CO2 is good, and macros are plenty, and P isnt through the roof (which can affect Fe availability/uptake, and maybe some other traces too) then by the process of elimination that leaves micros or Fe itself. Either too much of the former or not enough of the latter, IME
 
#18 ·
Given that L. aromatica isn't that expensive, you might be better off just starting over with fresh specimens. Once the plants are in such a poor state, it could be a relatively long road to recovery even if the underlying issue is addressed. I have no scientific evidence to back this up, but seems reasonable to me that the set of conditions that will suffice to nurse a sick plant to health is smaller than the one required to maintain the growth of an already strong plant, giving you a thinner margin for error based on your starting point. I think I'd scrap those stems and implement the suggestions above with prime specimens. Guess it depends how patient you are.
 
#20 ·
Just like has been said they look pale and starved. Not sure it is an excess of CSM+B though.
Leaves look a bit thin and spindley as well and in some parts like they are melting.

When I had L.Aromatica in my tank they also formed sideshots after a couple of weeks but the motherstem never stopped growing. Eventually got rid of them since they were growing to fast and a hell to maintain.
This was with a E.I and a rich TNC trace dosage.

 
#22 ·
After seeing your P levels in the algae thread, I believe that is the confounding issue. When mine got that high it seemed to wipe out all the Fe, and probably had the same affect on a few other micros.

Actually had PortalMasterRY test my water with his fancy meter. A .25 ppm dose of dtpa registered .02 after about 15 hours
 
#29 · (Edited)
Alright here's my weekly update. So far so good with the Aromatica, it's growing slowly which I think is ok but I'm not sure what growth rate is considered to be(fast, slow?). The undersides of the leaves seem to be gaining a little bit of color but if I look from the top of the tank, the tops of the plant look white. I'm thinking of bumping the fe another .1ppm this week and see what happens. Are there any affects of to much iron? I mean at this point I'd only be at .4ppm fe.
 
#31 ·
Yeah they are to packed together. Even with 520W of led light this would eventually happen to my groups and lower parts start to melt away.
Space them out and make sure there are good flow through the plant. Should be no need to introduce more iron to the water. CO2 should not be an issue either looking at your drop checker. Never had CO2 issues and I usually dial mine into the transition between dark green and a light green, never into the yellow.

I would guess it is mainly a light issue. My groups responded very well to intense light growing crazy thick and getting really intensly colored. Dialed it back and new growth would be a bit paler.
 
#32 ·
I don't think it's a light problem. The light is a Fluval 2.0 running full blast which should be over 100 par to the tops of the plants. I have Ludwigia Arcuata planted farther to the right the Aromatica and the tops of those are red.

I never really 100% understood what color my drop checker should be with my ph. When at peak co2 my tank ph is around 5.8 and degassed is 6.8.
 
#33 ·
Yeah not saying your light is not enough just saying that it is hard to get the light to penetrate to the lower parts of the plants and in between them. I had this issue with 520W leds as well but they grew at such speeds that when they started to get bad on the bottom parts they were already covering half the surface and time to replant.
Think it is a difficult plant to grow with moderate light without getting issues with the lower parts, think many stemplants have this problem atleast the thicker growing ones that require a bit more light. Unless one can manage to shot in lots of light from the sides. This would probably be a plant best planted in the center of a tank and not in the corners?
 
#36 ·
That is a pain, not sure what to recommend. I never got feeling that this plant was finicky for me it just grew no matter what. Your stems look thick and nice but the leaves are really thin. Try cutting back all dosing by 1/2 and see how the plants react, think tearing it all down would be a shame. Maybe cut back the micros even more. Do you have any pearling during the mid of your light cycle from your plants btw?
 
#38 · (Edited)
Yeah it's funny they're pearling right now even as crappy as they look. Pearling is at its best since I set up the tank back in May. I'm kind of having a similar issue with the pogo erectus, it does well and randomly the top stunt and it spits out shoots.

I also figured by tearing it down I could start of with a clean slate and help rid my self of this bba issue I've been battling.

Bump:
I am wondering if they were grown in water that was harder than yours. If so then possibly some Calcium Carbonate would help it to adjust to your soft water.
We'd have to ask @burr740 as the plants came from him. I've had them for a couple months now, so I'd think they would have adjusted by now.
 
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