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Mountains of Sawdust, take two

16K views 124 replies 21 participants last post by  jbrady33 
#1 ·
Hello TPT,

I will be using this thread to journal my next aquarium adventure. The exciting parts are probably at least several weeks or months away, but in the meantime I will post the "backstory" as I have time available. About three years ago, I started work on a large built-in aquarium with a heavy emphasis on DIY. The first iteration(s) of the aquarium can be seen in my build thread on reef central. The aquarium was initially built as a marine reef. While I loved and enjoyed building the system as a reef, it got to the point where owning/operating it as a reef wasn't really meeting my needs, so to speak. So, over the last month or two, I have been planning it's conversion to a planted freshwater aquarium.

More to come...
 
#2 ·
First a little background about myself. I have been keeping aquariums of one form or another for most of my life. My first few systems were essentially boring freshwater community tanks. Eventually I was bitten by the reef bug and, as is the case with many marine hobbyists, I took a stance that FW was inherently less interesting/desirable than marine.

Fast forward to 6 or 7 years ago - I had just taken down a 125g reef system and was contemplating replacing it with a smaller reef. Instead I decided to take a temporary break from marine aquariums and I jumped headfirst into high-tech planted FW, more or less just to do something different. Well, instead of being just a temporary diversion, I pretty much caught the bug.

That brings me up more or less to the point at which I started the project linked above. In my heart I still felt like I wanted a reef system but there was always an inner debate about which direction to go. I went with a reef because that's what I knew best and I figured it would be the most fulfilling.

Well, now that I'm a few years in to the project, I've reached the point where it's just not fulfilling. There are a handful of objective reasons why I'm not happy with the tank (time/cost/complexity to keep it running, noise, etc) but it's just inherently not making me happy. The reef is beautiful, colorful, boisterous, and in a way, very much in your face. It's exciting and flashy. At one point in my life, those attributes were attractive.

However, things change. Where I am right now, it's almost TOO flashy. I've realized that what I want from an aquarium is not flash and pop and impressiveness. What I want is something that's calming, peaceful, and gentle. I'm convinced that planted FW will give me that overall effect much better than the reef ever could.

So that's the soul-searching commentary out of the way. Next update I'll give a quick overview of the system and what I want to do with it. :)
 
#4 ·
Okay, so here's a cliff notes version of the system as a reef. This can all be gleaned from the thread I linked above, if you're willing to read through a few dozen pages of comments. I will post links below to specific points in that thread. I'm choosing to do this instead of cut-pasting it all here again as IMHO it's more valuable to see it intact, especially since some of these posts were done 3 or 4 years ago now.

The aquarium is approximately 360 gallons. It is 6' x 4' x 2', length x width x height. The 6' x 4' footprint was chosen specifically to give a depth to the aquascaping, vs. a thinner aquarium which IMHO can lead to a flat, two dimensional look. My house has an open floor plan, I located the aquarium so that it's visible from most of the communal living space on the first floor. More details here on the overall concept.

The aquarium itself is plywood, with glass viewing panels. There is a full-size viewing panel on the front, as well as much smaller viewing panels on one end and the back. These smaller panels were done purposefully to create a sense of "mystery" - when you enter the house at the front door, as you walk down the hall, you can get a glimpse of the aquarium through these smaller panels, but you don't see the whole thing until you walk around the corner. Doing it this way also saves me from having to design an aquascape that looks good from all sides!

In addition to the plywood aquarium, I built a plywood sump. The construction of the sump and aquarium are detailed in these posts:

Sump assembled

Tank shell first assembled

Epoxy work begun

Epoxy pour process explained

Display tank complete, except for glass

Glass install begins

Stand and hood framing complete
 
#5 ·
For those too lazy to click, here's a quick photo-montage of the building of the system as a reef.

Tank location on floorplan:


Building the tank and sump:




tank put together, lawn chair to show scale:


epoxy and supplies:


Tank sealed, waiting for glass (it's upside down):


Installing the glass:


Installed and framing begun:


Sheetrock hung and finished:


Saltwater, rock, sand, and first livestock in the tank:


And here's a random shot of one of the LED arrays in progress:


After it had been up and running for a while, I realized there was a delamination in one of the plywood braces. I drained the tank, put the livestock in a temporary system, and contemplated what to do. I ALMOST converted it to a planted FW tank at that point but decided that I had so much invested in the reef configuration that I should stick with it. That was maybe two years ago.
 
#6 ·
Speaking of LEDs, I will be retaining those with the planted FW configuration. I DIY'd the LED arrays, as well as the drivers and controller that are running them. Here are some photos during my initial testing of the LEDs, playing around with different settings on the controller:

All on 100%:



Whites 100%, blues off:



Whites at 50%, blues 100%:



Whites off, blues 100%:

 
#11 ·
It's really frustrating to take pictures of this thing. It's so large it's hard to capture the scale. It's also frustrating to capture colors and contrast well. Plus I'm pretty much always using a cell phone camera, and they're just hard to use in general (especially around fish tanks where you have really high variances in light).

No Way! I knew I'd seen your screen name before, but I couldn't quite place it until now.
Welcome to the Planted Tank Forum DWZM! I followed your build thread for your tank and a lot of the other threads that you had a hand in over at ReefCentral. I'm looking forward to see what you come up with for a "serene" layout for this huge tank.
Be mindful that plants grow a heck of a lot faster than corals, so carefull selection of species will be needed, if your looking to keep maintenance time to a minumum.
I'm planning on going with mostly slower growing plants in the long term but will probably fill it up with stems initially. I'm reading every "large planted tank" thread I can find at the moment, as I'm finding it a little difficult to translate my experience planting smaller tanks to this size. Especially in the beginning stages - as a reef, it was fine to slowly add frags as I got them. But as a planted tank, I want to do the "stuff it full right off the bat to make sure algae doesn't stand a chance" approach, but stuffing a tank this large full of 6" stem plant cuttings is going to take a LOT of 6" stem plant cuttings!

I have a few pieces of manzanita that I will be using, plus probably a handful of rock. The rock will probably be locally collected, there's lots of slate right on my own property.

I will probably be starting a temporary tank in the next few weeks to start growing out some plants. I have a 55g in the basement to use for this. Already have lights, substrate, and CO2 for it, so it should be pretty quick to get it running. That will give me time to do the major modifications I'm planning to the main system while still growing out some plant mass.
 
#10 ·
No Way! I knew I'd seen your screen name before, but I couldn't quite place it until now.
Welcome to the Planted Tank Forum DWZM! I followed your build thread for your tank and a lot of the other threads that you had a hand in over at ReefCentral. I'm looking forward to see what you come up with for a "serene" layout for this huge tank.
Be mindful that plants grow a heck of a lot faster than corals, so carefull selection of species will be needed, if your looking to keep maintenance time to a minumum.
 
#12 ·
Time to put down on paper the details as far as I have them planned. Please comment/question/correct anything as you see fit, as I'd rather change things now than after it's up and running (yes, I realize that statement is somewhat ironic given the nature of this project).

I will cover each major system in a separate post, and I'll start by describing how that system was set up while running as a reef, to give a basis for a starting point. In MOST cases I'm planning on drastically altering/reducing the "infrastructure."

First we will cover flow/filtration/plumbing as I think it's the most straightforward.

Right now, there is a large overflow box (visible in the back right corner from the front viewing pane). It is roughly 10" x 12" x 24". This box has two 1.5" bulkheads that are running as a Herbie style drain to the sump. The sump is 18" x 18" x 48". Pretty plain jane layout with three baffles separating a return compartment. Return is through a 2" bulkhead via a Reeflo Dart pump, into 1.5" PVC back up to the tank. Filtration in the sump right now is a relatively undersized skimmer, an algae turf scrubber, and a mat of macroalgae. The sump is also used as a place to dose kalk and the float switches for the auto topoff are there, too.

Additional flow is via three bulkheads in the bottom of the tank plumbed to the biggest pump ever installed on a home aquarium.

My current plan is basically to make that all GO AWAY. :lol: No, really, I mean it. I don't want a sump any more. I don't want tons of equipment. I don't really think you need tons to run a planted tank anyways.

So I'm ditching the sump, but keeping the overflow box. I plan on packing the overflow box full of filter media (probably ceramic or expanded clay to act as biological media) and running one of the existing bulkheads to the Dart, which I will mount up by the overflow instead of under the tank. Also the closed loop will go away and I will block off the bulkheads it uses. This means no more plumbing under the tank, and all flow via the single pump. I will put the heaters and the ATO in the overflow box so it'll all be hidden from view. The second bulkhead I will likely screen off and use as an emergency high level drain in case the ATO fails, and/or for automated water changes (force the ATO on for X amount of time and let the excess drain off).

The Dart is rated at something like 3,600 gph and will be operating at essentially zero head. I'm guessing I will have to valve it back since I probably won't want that much flow in a planted tank. I was thinking about a spray bar at first, but I'd rather just have a single outlet and let the momentum from the flow create a gyre inside the aquarium.

I'll cover CO2 now to get it out of the way. I have a 20lb tank, regulator, needle valve, bubble counter, etc. that I saved from my earlier planted tank adventures, so I will just re-use them. I have one of those typical flower-shaped ceramic diffusers but I'm guessing that won't work well in a system this large. I'm considering just running the CO2 into the input for the Dart but I'm guessing that won't work well either and it'll probably just burp large bubbles. Maybe a small needlewheel pump to chop it up and inject it into the Dart's intake?

Thoughts on any of this?
 
#14 ·
I'll cover CO2 now to get it out of the way. I have a 20lb tank, regulator, needle valve, bubble counter, etc. that I saved from my earlier planted tank adventures, so I will just re-use them. I have one of those typical flower-shaped ceramic diffusers but I'm guessing that won't work well in a system this large. I'm considering just running the CO2 into the input for the Dart but I'm guessing that won't work well either and it'll probably just burp large bubbles. Maybe a small needlewheel pump to chop it up and inject it into the Dart's intake?

Thoughts on any of this?
Maintaining adequate CO2 levels in a tank that large is going to be tricky.
You'll probably need to create a "reactor" of some sort and plumb it in to the system to be successful.
Going "Sumpless" will definitely help, as will reducing the overall flow rate through the system. Be sure to minimize any Air/Water mixing at your over flow too, as that will help prevent CO2 loss from the system.
Maybe you could keep the Coast to Coast? The CO2 reactor could be integrated into that. A simple high point in the piping could be made to act as a CO2 "bubble trap"and being that it's under the tank, the added head pressure would encourage the CO2 to saturate the water as it passes through the piping.
I don't have a sump on my tank either. My overflow boxes are plumbed directly into my return pumps and my CO2 is injected directly into my two OceanClear filters. The filters, by their inherent design, act as my CO2 reactors. The added 6' of head pressure on the filtration system helps to force the CO2 into saturation.
 
#13 ·
I'm managing a 225 gallon system, so I've got a good idea of what you're up against. Getting enough plant mass into the tank to create "balanced" conditions right off the bat is difficult/expensive with such a large tank. I wouldn't recommend trying to fill it with 6" stems either. The labor time to plant it all and the on going maintenance trimming would quickly drive you crazy.
I've had a lot of success in the past, when starting out with only a small amount of plants, by employing "spot lighting". By keeping the lighting focused only on the plants that are in the tank and carefully controlling nutrient levels, nuisance algae won't invade the remaining tank space. You can probably rearrange some of your LED lighting to accomplish this.
Get your hands on as much Java Fern as possible. In my opinion , it's the best species to keep in large systems where low maintenance is desired. Most people claim that Java Fern is content with "low" light, and it is, but wait until you see the growth that occurs in "high" light conditions with proper nutrient levels and plenty of CO2!
I've grown massive Java Ferns surrounded by carpets of Glossostigma at the same time and the ferns only required trimming once a year or so. The Ferns required so little maintenance that I got bored of them and sold them off. I could kick myself for that decision as now, I don't have the time needed to maintain all the stem plants that I replaced them with.
 
#15 ·
My thought in mentioning the stem plants was just to get something in there that grew quickly. I definitely don't want a lot of stems longterm, though there are a few I may keep just because I really like them. I'm terrible with names so I don't even remember what they're called, though I recognize them on sight.

Part of my master plan for this system is to ditch the built in "canopy" above the tank in favor of a suspended lighting unit, in order to allow emersed growth to be observed. It's obliterated in the photo I posted above, but that planted 60g I had featured a lot of cool emersed growth, I want that on this system, too. Just on a larger scale. :D I'm thinking also about some riparium planters along the end that butts up against the wall (the end with the overflow box).

The issue with this desire is that as the tank sits right now, the water surface is pretty much at my eye level (and behind a 4" plywood rim). So even if I tear the hood off, only REALLY TALL people will be able to enjoy the emersive growth. So I'm thinking about tearing the whole thing down and rebuilding it with a shorter stand.

Hey, drywall is cheap. :lol:
 
#16 ·
Oh boy, here we go again! Drywall's cheap- so's a step ladder! LOL :D
It's your tank after all, so I'm just watching to see what you come up with.
Just do yourself a favor and don't consult "Kcress" about this. He'd immediately start running load calcs for a system of under tank "screw jacks" and "cheap" will fly out the window. LOL
 
#17 ·
Keith is among my idols when it comes to DIY! I really am serious about keeping it simple for this system though so I won't be copying any of his awesome projects.

I don't mind the construction work up front to get it the way I want, especially since it'll be a one-time effort. Plus, tearing it down will give me the opportunity to do something different with the space underneath the tank. Right now it's full thanks to stuff that is all going away or getting moved (return pump, closed loop pump, sump, etc.). I may do built in shelves or something like that this time around.
 
#22 ·
Definitely going to have some soil in there. I'm debating the cap though. I'd like something dark. Seems hard to find dark, cheap sand. Thought about blasting grit, but I don't know if I want to risk scratching the glass (it's an abrasive after all). I've done plenty of turface in the past (or whatever other fired clay soil product I could find) and I liked it, except for how "light" it is which makes it hard to plant...
 
#23 ·
Very impressive build. I went through a lot of it on your link before I saw you had a lot of it here.

One thing I thought about when reading your thread regarding noise. You may want to google "Owens Corning 703 acoustic panels". I had the idea since you have so much room. It will not soundproof, just absorb some noise. You could use some acoustic foam on top of that which will absorb some higher frequencies. This stuff is way better than off the shelf stuff you would find at a hardware store but the sump area would have to be completely sealed as well to be actually sound proof. Never done this myself on an aquarium but I use them in my studio's I have built over the years.

I can't give too much advice here as my biggest tank has been a 29 gallon. I think a medium light (maybe on the lower end of medium light) would work well for what you sound like you are trying to achieve with CO2 and soil could work really well. Just be aware that soil can leach a lot of nutrients at first so it's something that can take time to get right since it can go from having excess nutrients in the water column to not very much in a fairly short period of time. It also leaches tannins for awhile if you care about that.
 
#25 ·
Well there's a BIT of progress. I bought a package of plants from a user on here and they arrived yesterday. Nice variety and quality. They're planted in a temporary tank in the dungeon basement until the big system is ready. I figured this gives me a chance to get my green thumb back and experiment with some options before setting up the monster and potentially making a mistake. And, growing some things out ahead of time will prevent the problem of not having "enough" plant stock on hand.

One of the things I want to experiment with is substrate choice. One of the factors I'm most interested in is what I'd call "ease of use" given the size/scale of the tank. Most of the planted systems I've had in the past have been fired clay substrates (whatever the athletic field product of the day was - soilmaster select or turface I think). Anyways I liked everything about it except the fact that it was SOOO light (in weight) that everything floated out. Given the size of this system I am not going to buy anything marketed within the aquarium hobby, I don't want to pay $1/pound for substrate if I can get it for a few cents a pound.

Well, when the plants got here, all I had on hand was an old bag of that athletic field stuff, so I used it. Since I am planning on experimenting with substrate I want it to be "modular" in this temporary tank so I put it in some of those plastic produce containers you get lettuce or spinach in, then put them on the bottom of the tank, planted, and filled the tank with water.

EVERYTHING had floated out within about 10 minutes. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Back to the drawing board. Next up, I think I'll try MGOCPM capped with black diamond blasting grit. Hopefully the grit is heavier and things won't float out.

If anyone has ideas for cheap, dark substrate that can be used as a cap for soil, or on it's own, and is easy to plant (plants don't float out), please let me know!

Also discovered that my old CO2 rig doesn't work, sounds like the solenoid is stuck closed as no gas comes out and there's no click when I plug it in. Off to ebay...
 
#27 ·
MGOCPM isn't much better than peat moss and will make a mess if you try to rescape. I'd suggest regular dirt with a sand cap. Or MTS if you want to spend the time on it. With the limited overhead space you have it seems to me you'll need the least maintenance substrate as possible. ADA or any other made-for-purpose substrate would cost an arm and a leg for that tank.
 
#28 ·
I'd suggest regular dirt with a sand cap.
Sorry for the obvious ignorance, but what do you mean by regular dirt? Like, digging up my lawn? :D Or, purchasing topsoil or some other product?


Or MTS if you want to spend the time on it.
I've skimmed the thread. Not really interested. I could see myself doing it if it was for a tank small enough to fit the MTS in a reasonable bucket or bin, but for this tank it would take a garage full of bins...

ADA or any other made-for-purpose substrate would cost an arm and a leg for that tank.
Yup. It's not that I don't have the money, it's more that I don't think it's worth it if I can get a suitable product for cheaper. And I think I can, I just have to find it.
 
#29 ·
Yep. Dirt dirt. Diana Walstad famously did it. Dogfish has done an impressively gross version of it. I found a 'topsoil' at HD that I think I will be using in my big tank. If I can find some certifiably pesticide free dirt somewhere I'll use that too. I've heard some guys used mud out of their backyard pond (I wouldn't. Too many unwanted little pests).
 
#31 ·
Nice driftwood pieces!!

I"m currently using pool filter sand on top of my peat moss substrate, but in the future I will be going with something darker. The off white washes all the colors out. I like black diamond blasting grit, but I can't find any locally, so I'd have to ship it in. (Pretty expensive for a big tank)

I wouldn't recommend the "black sand" that is sold at petco. I bought a small bag of the stuff for a nano tank and it STINKS of chemicals. Almost gave me a headache just cutting open the bad. Its not actual black sand, they just paint the stuff, and I'm starting to think that is part of the reason why my nano tank isn't looking well ATM.
 
#35 ·
More progress. The tank is drained and mostly clean.

I've been keeping it running with livestock that I owed to a few friends, trying to get everyone's schedules aligned. That finally happened so Saturday morning the work began. I wish I had taken pictures but I was more concerned with moving the dozen or so fish and 30 or 40 corals that still remained in the system.

Bright and early I shut everything down and started a siphon to drain the water (with a normal garden hose, it takes a good hour and a half or so). Started a second siphon to fill buckets. As it drained I removed the corals and few pieces of rock that were left.

Once it was down to about 6" of water left (so, about 90 gallons!) the real fun began. :D I took off my socks and climbed in the tank. With a net in each hand I was able to corner and capture the fish.

The most interesting part was turning over the low, flat rock that my pistol shrimp had been tunneling through and building up daily for almost two years. It's about 18" across and the whole rock is just a maze of tunnels:



Anyways once the livestock was out I drained the rest of the water, scooped out the sand, drained the sump, and called it quits for the day. That was about 6 AM to about 3 PM. And left me with an empty, but dirty tank.

Anyone who has kept marine systems will know my next problem. Coraline algae. Lots of it. And it's not like I can take this tank out to the driveway to hose it out. So I did the next best thing. Brought the hose to the tank. :D

I've used vinegar and scraping tools in the past but just due to the sheer immensity of this beast I didn't want something that tedious. So I kicked it up a notch and bought some dilute HCL (muriatic acid). I bought a brand marketed as "low odor" which basically means it's sold diluted compared to what you'd typically buy. Of course they charge the same amount. But that's OK with me, because I was going to dilute it anyways and I'd rather buy it already partially diluted vs. full strength and dangerous.

My method of attack was to put about 2" of water into the bottom of the tank to allow for diluting acid as I worked. Then I put a 50:50 mix of the acid and plain water in a spray bottle that could shoot a cohesive stream (instead of anything resembling a mist - I wanted to reduce the amount of acid that was floating in the air). I sprayed down each wall, then went back and scrubbed with a natural bristle brush on a long handle. This worked incredibly well - the coraline just melted, and the brush was more to just push it down into the water rather than having to actually scrub. Other than a few very tenuous spots, it was more or less clean in about an hour.

Then I used the hose to put about 120 gallons into the tank, rinsing everything down, before siphoning it all back out.

So the tank is mostly clean now. As I have been prepping I've been rethinking some of my plans. Earlier I mentioned how I was thinking of converting to an open-top in order to allow emersive growth and potentially some riparium-like plantings. Now, I'm not so sure I want to do that. Mostly because of our cat, who I happen to like almost as much as aquariums. I'm pretty sure she'd be up on top of the tank, reaching into it, every chance she got. She's feisty and (unfortunately, in this case) actually seems to LIKE water, so there's nothing to deter her from making a mess of an open-topped tank. So I'm starting to think I'll have to scrap that whole idea and just leave the structure as-is.

The good news is, that means I can cut several weeks out of the schedule. :D More to come...
 
#37 ·
That IS a beast if you can just walk around in it like that :D . Nice strategy to catch everything.
 
#38 ·
The last time I emptied it (to repair a brace) I did the same thing, only a friend got in with me. Took a few more minutes this time but honestly it's the only way I would de-fish a tank this big. Trying to net the fish when it's full is beyond futile (trust me, I've tried). When you climb in with only 5 or 6" of water in it, they all tend to just hide in the corners and you can just scoop them out. I ended up scooping a few of them by hand to avoid net tangles. It's actually kind of fun. Reminds me of hunting the tidepools while vacationing on the coast as a kid.
 
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