Is Fluorite messing with my water? - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-14-2004, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1,740
Is Fluorite messing with my water?

I am currently in the process of setting up another planted/breeding tank. Three days ago all that was added was fluorite and tapwater.

Tap water parameters (when filling the tank):
KH:18
GH:15
pH:8.2 (rested 24 hours)
CO2:3.4ppm (pH/KH)
PO4:0.1ppm

Tank water parameters:
KH:12
GH:11
pH:7.8
CO2:5.7ppm (pH/KH)
P04:0.1ppm

So with just Fluorite in the tank, the KH dropped 6 degrees and GH dropped 3 degrees. I've made sure my test kits work perfectly fine, so this can't be the problem. It's also advertised that Fluorite won't alter the water parameters. Anyone know what going on or had the same experince?

The pH drop is understandable since the KH dropped, but it fell too much since the CO2 is to high - 5.7ppm. But I'm not worried, yet, that this is a sign of additonal buffers. The PO4 is still 0.1ppm and Fluorite shouldn't be adding any others. The CO2 probably incresed alittle because there is slight surface aggitation from the AC150. I'll cut the motor for 24 hours to see if the pH/CO2 will go back to where they belong (8.0/3.6ppm). If not then it could mean other buffers. .

I'm mostly concerned about the GH and KH though, I was not expecting this at all.
Rolo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2004, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1,740
BTW, the reason I'm concered about this is because of a substrate war I had before. I bought Profile, put it in the tank, and everything was fine for a while. After a few weeks my PO4 levels suddenly got locked onto 2.4ppm! What happened was that added PO4 would be sucked into the Profile (explains why the PO4 always dropped to 0ppm after every dose) which eventually got saturated, then releached it all back into the water.

I am hoping that the same thing doesn't happen with the KH and GH. I'm planning on using almost pure RO water so to breed some difficult softwater fishes. If the substrates going to raise the KH and GH now...erg .
Rolo is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2004, 12:36 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
ninoboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Las Vegas , Nevada
Posts: 1,261
I have a tank with 100% Flourite and has no change in KH. In my other 2 tanks those use Onyx, KH rose about 0.5-1 dKH.

Eheim Pimp #21 (2) 2028 and auto feeder
ninoboy is offline  
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2004, 06:28 AM
Planted Member
 
djlen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somerdale, New Jersey USA
Posts: 216
To be honest, I don't understand your problems at all. I am using and have used both for years with none of the affects you report, to any water parameters in any way.

Len

Regards,
Len

HAVE DISCS - WILL TRAVEL
djlen is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2004, 03:17 PM
Planted Tank VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lebanon, CT
Posts: 4,939
Flourite does not effect water parameters...

The test results you are getting are normal , the proper way to test your tap water parameters is after it has sat for at least 8-10 hours. Its called "out-gasing" basically...

Some cases are more drastic then others but a false reading is taken when you come straight from the tap.
Buck is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2004, 05:22 PM
Planted Member
 
djlen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somerdale, New Jersey USA
Posts: 216
Agree with Buck, but the results reported were more dramatically different than typically seen after out-gassing. No?

Len

Regards,
Len

HAVE DISCS - WILL TRAVEL
djlen is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2004, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck
Flourite does not effect water parameters...

The test results you are getting are normal , the proper way to test your tap water parameters is after it has sat for at least 8-10 hours. Its called "out-gasing" basically...

Some cases are more drastic then others but a false reading is taken when you come straight from the tap.
Out gassing the water for several hours has nothing to do with GH or KH, only CO2 and pH. If the GH changes any, or the KH more than 1 degree just by letting the water sit - there's some funky stuff going on. Anyway just to fit the bill Buck, the GH and KH tap water parameters are the same when coming straight out, or after sitting for 24 hours. So the kits are working great!

So am I the first and only person ever to experience parameter changes from Fluorite? djlen is correct, the change in GH and KH is far too much, especially when it says fluorite doesn't affect water parameters.

BTW, I took a sample of water from the tank and rested it for about 24 hours. The pH rose to 8.0 so the extra CO2 in the tank was just do to light surface agaitation.
Rolo is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2004, 10:13 PM
Planted Tank VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lebanon, CT
Posts: 4,939
Quote:
Out gassing the water for several hours has nothing to do with GH or KH, only CO2 and pH.
...OK

Quote:
So am I the first and only person ever to experience parameter changes from Fluorite?
...Yes
Buck is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2004, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck
...OK

...Yes
Lol. Ok, it appears you are telling me something. However, as I said, the parameters of the tap are when the water is throughly out-gassed. The changes in the tank are not from further out gassing or anything of the sort.

Come on, someone else has had to have the same experince I'm going through.

Last edited by Rolo; 08-16-2004 at 04:07 AM.
Rolo is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2004, 10:47 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
ninoboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Las Vegas , Nevada
Posts: 1,261
Rolo,
I don't think you're alone. When I did a search (google and askjeeves) on Onyx and its effects to KH, I ran into a few articles or threads those have problem with Flourite and drop in KH. Some of them were quite similar with yours (no wood etc). No explanations though. Even the replies from Seachem denies that Flourite had anything to do with it.

Try do Google search, you'll see a few threads on this.

Eheim Pimp #21 (2) 2028 and auto feeder
ninoboy is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-16-2004, 04:03 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
malkore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 2,165
I seemed to have a Kh drop in my 20gallon when I first set it up, using flourite.
A few big water changes fixed all that...then I added fish and plants.
water changes help get rid of the residual cloudiness, which is just dust settling onto the top of the substrate. don't vacuum deep into the substrate, just the surface.

Malkore
Filstar XP2 PIMP #3
Visit my aquarium pages - see specs on my tanks, and photos of how they've evolved
malkore is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-17-2004, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1,740
Good to hear at least one other who has had the same experience. I did a google on this topic and found only a few more testimonies about fluorite lowering KH.

Malkore - isn't that eco-complete in your 20 gallon?
Rolo is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-17-2004, 04:08 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
malkore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 2,165
Yep. I had terrible cyano problems in the 20gallon, mostly on the substrate. I decided to swap to eco-complete to see if that'd help.
It didn't...but treating with maricyn did. I do like the eco though...adn eco can add to the buffering of your water if you use the 'liquid amazon' water it's packed in.

Malkore
Filstar XP2 PIMP #3
Visit my aquarium pages - see specs on my tanks, and photos of how they've evolved
malkore is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 06:03 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1,740
I setup a very simple experiment, so simple you could laugh but at least it reaches a conclusion. Since most here are saying flourite hasn't changed their water and that I found only a tiny handful of testimonies that fluorite can lower GH and KH, I had to prove it to myself.

With two 20 gallon aquariums, and 2 AC150 filter on each (both with 1 brand new sponge) I put into one tank just plain tap water, and into the other, tap water and brand new flourite. I tested the tap before filling the tanks and after, and confirmed that the parameters where the same during the entire filling process. Even tested both tanks right after filling, and expectedly they had the same parameters.

So then, I let the filters run them for two days and tested them tonight. Here are the parameters:

Tank with Tap Water
pH:8.2
GH:15
KH:21

Tank with Tap Water and Flourite
pH:8.0
GH:10
KH:13

Well there you have it. In rare occasions Flourite will change your water parameters.

What set my case apart for most is that my water is very hard. Carbonates (KH) are not very soluble, and with my high levels to begin with, all I can assume is something in the fluorite percipitated/bonded them out of solution. The Ca++ and Mg++ could have been collected at the CEC spots in fluorite, thus lowering GH.
Rolo is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 01:47 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Rex Grigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Portland Orygun
Posts: 9,600
It's very possible that the Flourite has removed some of the mineral from your water. But I would suspect that this is pretty much a one time thing. I suggest you either ask this question on the APD or call Seachem and talk to Dr. Morin about it.
Rex Grigg is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
fish deaths and ich problems???? cvarcher Fish 18 05-18-2007 02:17 PM
ultrasonic foggers? Anonymous Riparium/Terrarium/Vivarium 44 06-08-2004 08:20 AM
pH drop help! NFish Fertilizers and Water Parameters 4 12-11-2003 04:19 AM
Need some advice Zaphod_Beeblebrox General Planted Tank Discussion 8 11-05-2003 07:11 PM
Best Water Chemistry mattrmiller Fertilizers and Water Parameters 7 10-22-2003 06:18 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome