Ironite fertilizer in the substrate?????? - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Hi, I found Ironite fertilizer at Wal-mart, check it out. it has a NPK ratio of 7-6-6 and it includes all the traces that plants need. It comes in little pellets and I was thinking of pushing them down into the substrate like root tabs. I have a pellet applicator. Anyone ever use Ironite before?
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 11:01 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Rex Grigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Portland Orygun
Posts: 9,600
Nope. And for good reason. It will turn your water very acidic. Also the iron is not chelated.
Rex Grigg is offline  
post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 02:31 AM
PT Biologist
 
SCMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Maryland USA
Posts: 3,220
Doesn't need to be chelated if it's in the substrate, it can work in small amounts, without turning the water overly acidic. I mix it with clay and add it to the substrate when I am setting up a tank, about a 1/4 cup to a pound of red potters clay which I used in three 30 gallon tanks as part of a soil sub-substrate.

You only need to worry about chelating iron (or any metal ion nutrient) if it is being dosed in the water column to keep it in the "plant available" ionic state.

Sean

Aquascape? I'm a crypt farmer.

It's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.

That IS an aquascape, it's titled "The Vacant Lot".
SCMurphy is offline  
post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 03:16 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
woohoo, if Sean endorses, then that's that. hehe, thanks Sean!

Okay, so now my question is...I've got a 10 gallon tank and a 20 gallon tank.... how do you suggest going about applying it into my substrate? i.e. 1 tblsp every inch..... every 6 inches?? or just under the crypts and swords?

Thanks again Rex and Sean for your replies.

Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 11:15 AM
PT Biologist
 
SCMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Maryland USA
Posts: 3,220
The idea is to make iron available to the plants, not to choke them with it. What else is in the your substrate, to be honest I wouldn't use it without the clay and soil. I used the mix under my entire substrate, everything seems to appreciate it, swords, crypts, hairgrass, sag, vals, I have Limnophila sending out runners, and the Lace plants are still flowering.

Sean

Aquascape? I'm a crypt farmer.

It's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.

That IS an aquascape, it's titled "The Vacant Lot".
SCMurphy is offline  
post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Hi Sean, I have one inch of soil substrate and an inch of play sand over the soil substrate. the plants seem to do okay once they are ESTABLISHED with some roots. It's always the initial planting....that they grow perhaps too fast that they show some nutrient deficiencies..after a couple of weeks, they green up. i'm just tired of water column fertilizing because of all the algae it produces..perhaps because the phosphate content is so high in ironite...i was thinking if i put it in the substrate where the algae cannot get access to it, it would be much better.

if i may ask, why wouldn't you use it without clay and soil?

Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Another question Sean, how often do you add more ironite to your substrate? every month?

Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 05:37 PM
PT Biologist
 
SCMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Maryland USA
Posts: 3,220
The bio-chemical processes that have to occur to make the Ironite usable by the plants works better in a soil substrate than in a gravel or sand only substrate. I'm still trying to peg down why from the scientific literature, but I've found that plants in a soil substrate can overcome anoxic conditions where plants in a gravel substrate have a harder time. It has something to do with the rhizosphere and the pore space of the soil. The clay binds any excess production from these processes until the plants have a chance to take up the released nutrients.

I haven't added anything to my substrate (other than new plants) in about 5 years, all I've done is reap a harvest.

Sean

Aquascape? I'm a crypt farmer.

It's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.

That IS an aquascape, it's titled "The Vacant Lot".
SCMurphy is offline  
post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
what's the rhizosphere?

Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 08:05 PM
PT Biologist
 
SCMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Maryland USA
Posts: 3,220
Why did I have the feeling I might be getting too technical.

If I find a song lyric that explains it I'll let you know. :roll:

j/k

Aquatic plant roots are "leaky", in that they release O2 to the substrate. The area that is affected by this O2 release is called the rhizosphere. In an anoxic substrate this is the area that has aerobic metabolism occuring.


Sean

Aquascape? I'm a crypt farmer.

It's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.

That IS an aquascape, it's titled "The Vacant Lot".
SCMurphy is offline  
post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
haha I'm lovin it...tell me more tell me more...haha

i think i see what you are saying....you are saying that with all the roots in the substrate, it becomes aerobic...and there are no anaerobic areas to make iron in an available form for plants.... but in a soil substrate.. despite the oxygen richness of it all, iron is still made available vs. a gravel substrate?

anything i left out?
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 09:32 PM
PT Biologist
 
SCMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Maryland USA
Posts: 3,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubbahehe
haha I'm lovin it...tell me more tell me more...haha

i think i see what you are saying....you are saying that with all the roots in the substrate, it becomes aerobic...and there are no anaerobic areas to make iron in an available form for plants.... but in a soil substrate.. despite the oxygen richness of it all, iron is still made available vs. a gravel substrate?

anything i left out?
You don't quite have it but you don't really need to know it to grow plants. Neither substrate is oxygen rich at all, but in a gravel substrate the plants can't form an effective rhizosphere, and can't get the process going to get nutrients into an available form.

Sean

Aquascape? I'm a crypt farmer.

It's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.

That IS an aquascape, it's titled "The Vacant Lot".
SCMurphy is offline  
post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Sean, have you ever had your soil substrates "go bad"?? i read about it online every now and then from people who say that it turns into a "green stinky mess" or "went anaerobic and caused all the fish to die" ?? what are your experiences?

Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 12:27 AM
PT Biologist
 
SCMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Maryland USA
Posts: 3,220
I've never had a substrate go bad. I even set one up, filled the tank, and let it sit for a year before planting a couple dwarf sag and a crypt spiralis in the tank, I was a little distracted at the time. I also put some rotala rotundifolia on the substrate and held it down with a rock. All three plants took to this anoxic substrate, spread, and turned it over. You have to remember I don't use a topsoil with any organic material in it, it is mineralized.

Actually the ten gallon tank that I show the picture of in another thread is that tank, with that same substrate today, some of the plants are gone and others are planted in there now.

My substrates are lasting, at last count which is present day, 9 years. And that tank had a massive die off because of a heater malfunction, is got stuck on. However, everything that had below gravel biomass came back after a water change. I was very glad to see that because my 9 year old Lace plants are in that tank (at the time they were 6). Other plants that came back are Crypt parva, Crypt spiralis, Crypt walkerii, Crypt willisii, and an Amazon sword I don't know the species of.

Sean

Aquascape? I'm a crypt farmer.

It's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.

That IS an aquascape, it's titled "The Vacant Lot".
SCMurphy is offline  
post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 02:08 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
so thsi mineralized topsoil is the same one that you get at home depot right? 40 lbs for like a dollar?

Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jobes House Plant Fertilizer sticks for substrate? Jeffd17 General Planted Tank Discussion 4 05-23-2006 01:08 AM
Substrate and fertilizer cramramdon Equipment 8 08-23-2004 06:04 PM
Is it safe to use GelCaps for substrate fertilizer delivery? bharada General Planted Tank Discussion 3 04-02-2004 04:29 PM
Dosing fertilizer with eco-complete as substrate law Substrate 8 02-17-2004 01:02 AM
Growing plants without substrate....Just fertilizer?? sean General Planted Tank Discussion 10 04-25-2003 12:34 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome