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How to build a CO2 regulator

202K views 772 replies 120 participants last post by  oldpunk78 
#1 · (Edited)
*** I want to start off by noting that there are almost limitless possibilities when it comes to putting one of these things together. You are by no means limited to using the parts or methods listed here. If you have a question about compatible parts or the quality of certain parts, just ask. That's why this thread is here.

Here's a bunch of really useful info if you're willing to do some reading:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/8236-Regulator-Build-Links
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6470-Dual-Stage-Regulators
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/72328-victor-dual-stage-regulator-pimp-club.html

And here's another great guide to help you build a co2 regulator:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...regulator-part-numbers-sources-and-other-tips!


__ _

Picking out a suitable regulator



This is probably not the easiest thing to do if you don't know what to look for. Here's a few things to look for.


-Working Pressure


Generally, you want a regulator that has a working pressure between 30-100psi. In most cases the low pressure gauge will read 60-200psi. The low pressure gauge will usually read double the the max working pressure. Regulators with a lower working pressure can be used, but you will be limited as to how you can diffuse co2 as the new atomizers require about 30psi to work. Read you will limited to glass/ceramic diffusers and reactors. A regulator with a higher working pressure can also be used but you will not have as much control over your working pressure.


-Gauges


Make sure both gauges read "zero". Used regs with blown gauges can be signs of other problems. The high pressure gauge should read between 0-1000psi and 0-4000psi. If the reg has a high pressure gauge of less than 1000psi it's not for us. Sometimes someone will put a lower pressure gauge on a regulator that will handle more pressure but unless you know what you are getting yourself into, stay away from them. Again, the low pressure gauge should read 0-60psi up to 0-200psi. Note that some low pressure gauges will measure a vacuum. ie: -30psi to +100psi. Those are fine.


-Single Stage Vs. Dual(2) Stage Regulators




This usually turns into heated debate. I'm not going to make an argument for either. Both work, period.

The main difference is that when you have a 2 stage reg, it's like having two regulators in one body. The first stage is pre-set and the second stage is the one you can adjust. This helps keep work working pressure consistent when you have a gas that will change pressure inside the cylinder.

One of the great things about building your own regulator is that you have many choices. Most of the 2-stage regulators out there retail for over $400. We can find them used for a fraction of that. You have to ask yourself, do I want a regulator that is intended for precise delivery in a clean room or an industrial application or a regulator that was built with the intention of pressurizing a beer keg?


-Stainless Steel Regulators


These are the flagships of the regulator manufactures. They often cost $700+ retail. These are used for very high purity gasses or very nasty and corrosive gasses. I've gotten a couple that were very corroded and not usable. Some extra time/care should be used when looking into these. If you get one in good working order, it will probably out last your interest in the hobby.


-Diaphragms


Most of regs we would come across use either neoprene, brass or 316 stainless steel. A lot of the 2-stage regulators out there use the stainless diaphragms. All of the regs out there intended for beer use neoprene. As you might imagine, the stainless ones last a lot longer. Stainless diaphragms are nice, but are not a must have.


-Do I Need To Buy A Regulator With A CGA-320 Connection?


No. It's nice, but these are something we can change. Your local welding shop will have these or they are easily obtained on the web. These are sold as a nut and a nipple and for the most part can be found from $7-$20. Something to consider is that some regulator manufactures actually use a thread locker to seal the the high pressure "in" port. This can make removing the old cylinder fitting difficult. I don't consider myself a really strong person and I have yet to get a reg I couldn't remove the old cylinder connection with just hand tools. Some of will probably need a vise and and air tools depending on physical ability.


-Brand Names


There are a lot. Cornelius, Smith, and Micromatic are all good single stage names to use. These can be found either new or used for a reasonable price and have proven themselves to be good for our our uses. GLA and Sumo have been selling these for years without issue.

They don't make bad 2-stage regulators. There's no market for them. Some of the more common brand names you will see are:

Airgas, Airproducts, Concoa, Matheson, Victor, Linde, Smith, Praxair, Harris, and Union Carbide. There are many more I will probably add later as I remember...

*Note that all of these brand names produce single stage regulators as well.


-How and Where To Buy


This forum and Fleabay are your best bets. There are a few members that sell regulators and regulator supplies in the swap-n-shop and powerseller forums that have already done the work for you. If you are patient, you can find awesome deals on Fleabay. Just make sure you understand what you are bidding on. Many times, the sellers are not knowledgeable about the items they are selling/auctioning. Sometimes they even list the wrong brand or model number. There are a lot of us that can help out trying to select a regulator. Just ask if you know for sure. I'm going to say that spending around $50 on a used regulator body is fair(if it's in good condition). If I'm looking for a new one, I try not to spend over $100. These are just guide lines I try to fallow. There are better deals but they are fewer and fare between.




Parts Involved With Your Build



-Solenoid


You need a solenoid if you want to put reg on a timer and not have it going 24/7.

There are tons of different solenoids out there. Many of them will work for us. I'm only going to cover two for now.

Burkert 6011 - This is a very dependable choice. It comes with 1/8npt female ports and is easy to install and have work correctly. This a 110V solenoid that you can get with or with out a power cord or DIN connector. Note that it is directional. It comes labeled with a "P" on one end and a "A" on the other. "P" is the "in" side.
*Available in stainless steal.



Where do you get one?

Burkert

http://www.aquariumplants.com/product_p/sol.htm

*Note that if you order from Fresh Water Systems you will need to order the solenoid, DIN, and cable/plug. The one from aquariumplants.com you just need to decide if you want the cable/plug installed. Both available seal types work just fine - Buna-N is slightly better.

Clippard Mouse Solenoids - These are smaller low voltage solenoids. They come in standard and manifold mount and are available in 6, 12, 24VDC. I like the manifold mount because it gives you one 1/8npt male connection and one 10/32 female connection. You need Clippard part number ET-2M-6, or ET-2M-12, or ET-2M-24 and Clippard part number 15490-2. You will also need to come up with you're own DC converter of the appropriate voltage.

(manifold mount ET-2M-24)

(manifold 15490-2)

(standard mount ET-2-24)

http://www.clippard.com/store/
More to come.


-Needle/Metering Valve


There are a ton of needle valves out there to pick from. Many of them are not intended for the very low flow that we use for a planted tank. Ideal and Fabco are probably the most recognized. They are also a couple of my favorites. The best Needle valve I have used is the Ideal V54-1-12. It's stainless and has a metering handle. It's also expensive(>$130) and imposable to find used. It's brass counterpart without the metering handle option Is about $80, The Ideal 52-1-12(Vernier handle option V52-1-12) . The Fabco NV-55(10/32 ports) or NV-55-18(1/8npt ports) are great choices if you have more of a limited budget at $23 and $34 respectively.

Ideal valve 52 series(w/o vernier handle)



Ideal 54 series (stainless steel) (w/o vernier handle)



Needle Valve | Cast Bronze Needle Valve | Forged Brass Needle Valves | Stainless Steel Needle Valves | Custom Needle Valves | Ideal Valve Inc.
(you need to call Bill at Ideal to order)

Fabco NV-55



Fabco NV-55-18



http://store.fabco-air.com/products.php?cat=113


Here's one of Swagelok's better metering valves(for us), the 'S' series (These part #'s are for the stainless versions. Brass is also available.)

SS-SS4



SS-SS4-A-VH (same valve but angled with the vernier handle option)



Swagelok.com the source for tube fittings, valves, and other fluid system components

***Please note that there are many different Swagelok valves. While they are all very well made, I have only found the 'S' (low flow) series to be worth the money you're going to pay for them. These are best found used or 'new old stock' as they are expensive new. I should also add that most of them use tube fittings and a special adapter is need to plum them into your regulator. Try to find 1/8 npt or tube fittings models or 1/4 tube(best) fitting models. Also, the metric versions can be troublesome trying to find adapters for. Stay away from the VCR connection. 1/16 tube fitting models should only be used 'in-line'.


-Pipe Fittings


I really like Swagelok and Parker pipe fittings. They go together easily and don't leak if assembled properly. By no means are you limited to use these fittings. Most of these can be obtained at a well stocked hardware store. If you need the Swagelok part number for the stainless counterparts of the fittings listed below, just replace the first 'B' with 'SS'.


Swagelok # B-4-HRN-2 (Hex Reducing Nipple, 1/8 NPT x 1/4 NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-RB-2 (Reducing Bushing, 1/8 NPT x 1/4 NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-E (Elbow, Female 1/8 NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-SE (Street Elbow, 1/8 NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-ME (Male Elbow, 1/8 NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-HN (Hex Nipple, 1/8 NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-RSE-2 (Reducing Street Elbow, 1/4 in. Female NPT x 1/8 in. Male NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-HLN-1.50 (Hex Long Nipple, 1.5" 1/4 NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-HLN-2.00 (Hex Long Nipple, 2" 1/4 NPT)

Clippard # 11999-PKG (Short Coupling, #10-32)
Clippard # 15036-PKG (1/8” - 27 to #10-32 Reducer Plug)
Clippard # 2CPF-PKG (1/8” NPT to #10-32 Female Reducer)
Clippard # 15453 (Male #10-32 Coupling, stainless steel)
*You can't just order this one from their online store. You need to talk to a distributor. It is a lot stronger than part # 11999 and if you want to mount a NV-55, this is the way to go. This is a part you need to use Loctite with. I'll cover that later on. I've seen a couple builders here on the forum selling these as well.


-Swagelok Tube Fittings & Adapters


Swagelok # B-400-1-2 (Tube Fitting, Male Connector, 1/4 in. Tube OD x 1/8 in. Male NPT)
Swagelok # B-402-1 (Nut for 1/4 in. Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-403-1 (Front Ferrule for 1/4 in. Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-404-1 (Back Ferrule for 1/4 in. Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-405-2 (Tubing Insert, 1/4 in. OD x 1/8 in. ID)
Swagelok # B-6M0-1-2 Tube Fitting, Male Connector, 6 mm Tube OD x 1/8 in. Male NPT)
Swagelok # B-6M2-1
(Nut for 6 mm Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-6M3-1 (Front Ferrule for 6 mm Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-6M4-1 (Back Ferrule for 6 mm Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-6M5-4M (Tubing Insert, 6 mm OD x 4 mm ID)
Swagelok # B-2-TA-1-2 (Male Tube Adapter, 1/8 in. Tube OD x 1/8 in. Male NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-TA-1-2 (Male Tube Adapter, 1/4 in. Tube OD x 1/8 in. Male NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-TA-7-2 (Female Tube Adapter, 1/8 in. Tube OD x 1/8 in. Female NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-TA-7-2 (Female Tube Adapter, 1/4 in. Tube OD x 1/8 in. Female NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-HC-A-401
(Hose Connector, 1/4 in. Tube Adapter, 1/8 in. Hose ID)
Swagelok # B-2-HC-A-201
(Hose Connector, 1/8 in. Tube Adapter, 1/8 in. Hose ID)

Here's a great resource about how to use Swagelok tube fittings:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/8226-How-to-use-Swagelok-tube-fittings


-CGA-320 Nut/Nipple



These come in various lengths. You can get them in brass, chrome plated brass, and stainless steel.


-Check Valves


Clippard part # MCV-1BB
(#10-32 ports, female in/out)
Clippard part # MCV-1
(#10-32 ports, male in/female out)
Clippard part # MCV-1AA
(#10-32 ports, male/male)

Swagelok # B-2C2-1/3
(Poppet Check Valve, Fixed Pressure, 1/8 in. MNPT, 1/3 psig)
Swagelok # B-4C-1/3
(Poppet Check Valve, Fixed Pressure, 1/4 in. Swagelok Tube Fitting, 1/3 psig)
Swagelok # B-2C4-1/3
(Poppet Check Valve, Fixed Pressure, 1/8 in. FNPT, 1/3 psig)


-Barb Fittings


Clippard part # 11752-4-PKG
(#10-32 male, 1/8 ID hose)
Clippard part # 11752-3-PKG
(#10-32 male, 1/8 ID hose, short barbs)
Clippard part # 2CP4-PKG
(1/8 NPT male, 1/8 ID hose)
Clippard part # 11924-1-PKG
(1/8 NPT male, 1/8 ID hose, short barbs)

The 1/8 NPT barb fittings can be found at most hardware stores.


-Bubble Counter


Here's the most common and reliable one:


It's made of brass and plastic and has an integrated check valve. This check valve is prone to failing and I highly recommend using another check under it when installing. While this style of bubble counter is convenient for the user, I don't really recommend them. There's a lot less that can go wrong with a cheap glass in-line counter.

__

Tools



You can build one of the with nothing but a couple crescent wrenches and a pair of Vise Grips. However, some other tools will make the whole process a little easier.

-8" Crescent Wrenches
-Vise Grips
-Bench Vise
-Air Compressor
-Air Impact Driver
-Assorted Open End/Box Wrenches
-A Clean Place To Work
-Small Set Of Allen Wrenches
__

Teflon Tape/Pipe Dope/Thread Locker



-Teflon Tape vs. Pipe Dope


High pressure connections. You need to tape these. If you use pipe dope on your CGA-320 nipple or your high pressure gauge, they will probably leak. Tape is also a good idea on all stainless steel pipe threads. It will probably keep you from breaking a thread one day. It is very important not to get tape on the ends of the threads. Little pieces get cut off and end up getting stuck places we don't want them. If you have to re-do a taped connection, be very careful to remove the residual tape from the threads.

Pipe dope. Great for small low pressure connections. I generally don't use it. When I do, it's for a situation where I can't use a lot force making the connection.

Red Loctite. You can pretty much use it for all your NPT connections. Problem is that it's very difficult to get them apart again. Some of you that have taken apart an old Victor reg probably know what I'm talking about. The only thing that I really use it for are those stainless 10-32 couplings. (That's how Clippard designed it...)


:poop: poop
 
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#556 ·
What up fellas...man, it's been awhile since last post.

I'm contemplating the idea of having two VTS 450D rebuilt. I purchased them from a seller on eBay....long time ago...anyways, the seller agreed to refund the money I paid for them as they did not work.

So, each reg was like $12 (shipping cost)

I would like to get them rebuilt and converted for co2 usage.

I honestly am done buying from eBay as I have no luck. Each reg will cost $60 to rebuild.

Let me know what you think.

~Cris
 
#557 ·
Hey Mathman,

I don't search ebay anymore but don't they usually have Concoa for 60 and less? What about a high purity regulator? You get the scientific/medical clean look rather than a welding look.

Then again, if you don't care about looks, 60 bucks for two Victor is still a great deal.
 
#559 ·
If you have a Swagelok poppet check valve with tube fittings, 1/3 psi cracking pressure... Is it possible that there could be enough water pressure in the reactor to force water through it? When the CO2 isn't running water gets through! So much for an expensive check valve lol.

And I quadruple checked the arrow when I installed it.
 
#560 ·
I have a Swagelok check valve and run a reactor and have never had problems with the water coming back. I also run a cheaper s/s check valve between the Swagelok check valve and the reactor. It may be a little redundant but it gives me piece of mind that my regulator will be protected.
 
#562 ·
Thank you TPT, Old Punk and Darkblade...

A premature shout out to this site and its members for giving me the direction and guidance to assemble this AP dual stage for less than most online bargain regulators. (and props to Matt F. at BR for the Burkert tutorial).

Of course I haven't leak tested the unit just yet, so if it totally craters I will have jinxed myself in sublime fashion...

I am waiting on the arrival of a Swagelok check valve to protect the Fabco before I wet run it...

Fabco - Gainesville
Julian Sprung - Gainesville
GLA - Gainesville
My first planted tank 1996 - Gainesville (Alice, Pam and Tom aka K. Cobain)

(The sky is Orange and the sun is Blue...)
 

Attachments

#569 ·
Question on the various Used regulators on eBay. Looking at the specs on some of the regulators I'm finding on [Ebay Link Removed] For example a Concoa 400 series regulator. The spec sheet lists several outlet pressure options for the regulator.
The question is, is this just solely based on the output gauge they put on the regulator or is there an internal part that actually limits the output pressure?
Basically, if I pick up any 400 series regulator, can I just change the output gauge to whatever range I need or do I need to look for one that has the right gauge already since there is something internal that limits the output pressure?
 
#571 ·
If I understand the question correctly, yes, there are internal parts or designs that limit the output. The diaphram and channels cut through the body are some limiting factors. If you have a reg that is limited to some point like 30 PSI by design, you will not be able to change the meter and get higher. But we use such low pressure that I don't find too many of the quality regs that are too low for us. We tend to think of our tanks as high pressure but when compared to many uses for regs, our use is pretty lowball. The tank pressure is high but our output is very low. Just the basic shop compressor will go far beyond 100PSI.
It sure pays to check before buying, though.
 
#572 ·
Thanks for your input.
Some of the ceramic diffusers require 30-40 psi and in the example I gave above, the spec sheet for the regulator has options for maximum output pressure from 15 psi to 100 psi.
I was just wondering if the 100psi rated regulator is the same as the 15psi one except having a different gauge. Sounds like there is something internal that would need to be changed to go from say the 15psi regulator to the 100psi regulator.
Once again thanks for your help.
 
#573 ·
That "something internal that would need to be changed" is very rarely done in this hobby. It would require knowing how to do it (which means the willingness to possibly trash one or more regs as you figure it out) and having the tools to do it. There are some posts from people who have done this - or claim to - and they say it's not hard, but generally the feeling is it's more trouble than it's worth. And it wouldn't require you to change the gauge, but it would probably help to do so in order to get accurate readings.
 
#575 ·
I would not consider changing any internal part in the regulator to suit my needs. More trouble than it is worth.

I was just curious because I've seen some regulators on ebay that are pretty cheap but some of them don't come with any gauges at all. Looking up the spec for the regulator and I see many options for output pressure. Was wondering if it was as easy as just putting on the gauge I want but from what you guys are telling me, I think its definitely more trouble than its worth.
 
#576 ·
Putting on a new gauge does not change the set maximum output pressure of the regulator.

You can adjust working pressure with the knob on the front of the regulator.

An analogy:

The regulator's maximum output pressure is the maximum speed of your car. Changing the speedometer's maximum to (say) 500 km/hour will not mean your car is capable of going 500 km/hour.

Adjusting the working pressure with the knob on the front of the regulator is like your accelerator pedal in the car.

Hope this clears up the confusion.
 
#577 ·
If any of you builders have a decent quality reg "on the shelf" that can supply at least two tanks (i.e.: has a manifold with two or more needle valves/bubble counters I need to purchase one quickly. PM me please. Looks not so important as being in proper working condition. Thanks!
 
#578 ·
Q on wall mounts

Notwithstanding my previous post where I'm looking for a reg for immediate use I'd like to build my own system and have read this entire string and more. Josh built my last one but he is not building them anymore :)-(.

One thing I've seen on the auction site whose name shall not be mentioned are the set ups with flexible stainless high pressure hose. These look like they were salvaged from medical, computer or science applications. The thing that strikes me is that (assuming the regulator itself is working and useable in our world and assuming that it was not used for cyanide gas) the parts could be reconfigured so one could have a wall mounted regulator/needle valve/bubble counter with the co2 tank somewhere below. This is purely for looks as they say.

I clipped a photo below at random that has a matheson reg and some neat stainless tubing with swagelock fittings what look like cut off valves (but could be needle valves with a lever action, I suppose) and so on. It looks like the reg in this one is set up with two inputs -- presumably for two tanks. One would need to be plugged. It bears the model number 99111 which does not show up in Matheson's current product list so maybe it is a custom made application. It all looks like stainless from the photo but what do I know.

So assuming these things are functional and assuming that the reg itself is suitable for co2 I wondered if anyone has used one of these set ups to build a wall mounted rig and, if so, if there are any major issues to watch for? Come to think of it, I wonder why I have not seen wall mounts more often -- I think there is one example in this entire 14 page string... Thanks -- and also thank you for an incredibly useful string on building!
 

Attachments

#580 ·
Notwithstanding my previous post where I'm looking for a reg for immediate use I'd like to build my own system and have read this entire string and more. Josh built my last one but he is not building them anymore :)-(.

One thing I've seen on the auction site whose name shall not be mentioned are the set ups with flexible stainless high pressure hose. These look like they were salvaged from medical, computer or science applications. The thing that strikes me is that (assuming the regulator itself is working and useable in our world and assuming that it was not used for cyanide gas) the parts could be reconfigured so one could have a wall mounted regulator/needle valve/bubble counter with the co2 tank somewhere below. This is purely for looks as they say.

I clipped a photo below at random that has a matheson reg and some neat stainless tubing with swagelock fittings what look like cut off valves (but could be needle valves with a lever action, I suppose) and so on. It looks like the reg in this one is set up with two inputs -- presumably for two tanks. One would need to be plugged. It bears the model number 99111 which does not show up in Matheson's current product list so maybe it is a custom made application. It all looks like stainless from the photo but what do I know.

So assuming these things are functional and assuming that the reg itself is suitable for co2 I wondered if anyone has used one of these set ups to build a wall mounted rig and, if so, if there are any major issues to watch for? Come to think of it, I wonder why I have not seen wall mounts more often -- I think there is one example in this entire 14 page string... Thanks -- and also thank you for an incredibly useful string on building!
This rig is set up to have 2 bottles with a switchover with one outlet. It is meant to have 2 bottles hooked into the system, the knob in the middle is the switchover that directs which bottle to draw pressure from as priority, an when a low pressure reading (say around 200psi) for the bottle is read, it automatically switches to the second bottle. The top gauge is the outlet pressure and works just like a normal regulator. This setup would really only be useful for a very large aquarium where a lot of CO2 is being used, or if you had a manifold for several different tanks on the outlet of the regulator.

Most of these set ups are custom made and are quite expensive. This is probably the reason why you dont see many people have them set up for CO2 reg builds.

Hope this info helps you.
 
#579 ·
ok I need some more help. I found a guy locally that is selling both a Victor VTS-450D and a Matheson 3122-350 regulator. I'm going to meet with him today and get one of the regulators. The problem is I can't decide which one to get?
The Victor is currently set up with a CGA-346 nipple for oxygen while the Matheson is set up with a CGA-350.
I like the Matheson because it is smaller and lighter but looking at the usage for CGA-350 makes me kind of nervous with all kinds of poisonous gas allowed(spec sheet for the matheson says non-corrosive gas only but seems like CGA-350 allows some corrosive gas?).
The Victor is set up for oxygen but from my research the thing is HUGE plus this one is missing the low pressure gauge so I'd need to get a new gauge for it.
Without knowing the history behind these regulators, I'm trying to see if it is possible to determine which one might have a less chance of being broken based solely on the fitting currently on the regulator.
Or am I totally over thinking this and should just close my eyes and pick one?
So yeah, a lot of paralysis by analysis happening here. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. TIA
 
#582 ·
Ok. I met with the guy and decided to get the Victor VTS-450D. This sucker is huge! I think I have all the parts I need ordered so should be able to get the regulator built by end of next week.

One thing I noticed about the Victor. When I hook it up and open the CO2 bottle, the High pressure gauge builds up to the 800psi pretty slowly. Took like maybe 30 seconds to 1 minute until the needle went to 800psi. Is that normal or is that something I need to worry about?
 
#583 ·
It could be something wrong. In my experience, the high pressure gauge usually indicates the cylinder pressure immediately (within a second or two) of opening the cylinder valve.

You do not have oil filled gauges by any chance, do you?
 
#597 ·
Oldpunk thank you for this, gonna start buying what I need and had a question

I want to use


but was wondering how you connect it to the outlet? do they sell the one shown in this picture?


Or does it connect directly to a PH controller? (with a couple of wires)
the wire you see connected to the mouse solenoid is the 12/24 vdc from clippard. You'll want to look at this thread:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154557
 
#594 ·
I believe it is a modifier for the type of valve that comes out of the regulator, in this case "diaphragm valve".

You have a Series 500, HPT regulator, that has a low pressure gauge that goes up to 60 PSI, with a CGA580 inlet, it appears.
 
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