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How to build a CO2 regulator

202K views 772 replies 120 participants last post by  oldpunk78 
#1 · (Edited)
*** I want to start off by noting that there are almost limitless possibilities when it comes to putting one of these things together. You are by no means limited to using the parts or methods listed here. If you have a question about compatible parts or the quality of certain parts, just ask. That's why this thread is here.

Here's a bunch of really useful info if you're willing to do some reading:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/8236-Regulator-Build-Links
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6470-Dual-Stage-Regulators
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/72328-victor-dual-stage-regulator-pimp-club.html

And here's another great guide to help you build a co2 regulator:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...regulator-part-numbers-sources-and-other-tips!


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Picking out a suitable regulator



This is probably not the easiest thing to do if you don't know what to look for. Here's a few things to look for.


-Working Pressure


Generally, you want a regulator that has a working pressure between 30-100psi. In most cases the low pressure gauge will read 60-200psi. The low pressure gauge will usually read double the the max working pressure. Regulators with a lower working pressure can be used, but you will be limited as to how you can diffuse co2 as the new atomizers require about 30psi to work. Read you will limited to glass/ceramic diffusers and reactors. A regulator with a higher working pressure can also be used but you will not have as much control over your working pressure.


-Gauges


Make sure both gauges read "zero". Used regs with blown gauges can be signs of other problems. The high pressure gauge should read between 0-1000psi and 0-4000psi. If the reg has a high pressure gauge of less than 1000psi it's not for us. Sometimes someone will put a lower pressure gauge on a regulator that will handle more pressure but unless you know what you are getting yourself into, stay away from them. Again, the low pressure gauge should read 0-60psi up to 0-200psi. Note that some low pressure gauges will measure a vacuum. ie: -30psi to +100psi. Those are fine.


-Single Stage Vs. Dual(2) Stage Regulators




This usually turns into heated debate. I'm not going to make an argument for either. Both work, period.

The main difference is that when you have a 2 stage reg, it's like having two regulators in one body. The first stage is pre-set and the second stage is the one you can adjust. This helps keep work working pressure consistent when you have a gas that will change pressure inside the cylinder.

One of the great things about building your own regulator is that you have many choices. Most of the 2-stage regulators out there retail for over $400. We can find them used for a fraction of that. You have to ask yourself, do I want a regulator that is intended for precise delivery in a clean room or an industrial application or a regulator that was built with the intention of pressurizing a beer keg?


-Stainless Steel Regulators


These are the flagships of the regulator manufactures. They often cost $700+ retail. These are used for very high purity gasses or very nasty and corrosive gasses. I've gotten a couple that were very corroded and not usable. Some extra time/care should be used when looking into these. If you get one in good working order, it will probably out last your interest in the hobby.


-Diaphragms


Most of regs we would come across use either neoprene, brass or 316 stainless steel. A lot of the 2-stage regulators out there use the stainless diaphragms. All of the regs out there intended for beer use neoprene. As you might imagine, the stainless ones last a lot longer. Stainless diaphragms are nice, but are not a must have.


-Do I Need To Buy A Regulator With A CGA-320 Connection?


No. It's nice, but these are something we can change. Your local welding shop will have these or they are easily obtained on the web. These are sold as a nut and a nipple and for the most part can be found from $7-$20. Something to consider is that some regulator manufactures actually use a thread locker to seal the the high pressure "in" port. This can make removing the old cylinder fitting difficult. I don't consider myself a really strong person and I have yet to get a reg I couldn't remove the old cylinder connection with just hand tools. Some of will probably need a vise and and air tools depending on physical ability.


-Brand Names


There are a lot. Cornelius, Smith, and Micromatic are all good single stage names to use. These can be found either new or used for a reasonable price and have proven themselves to be good for our our uses. GLA and Sumo have been selling these for years without issue.

They don't make bad 2-stage regulators. There's no market for them. Some of the more common brand names you will see are:

Airgas, Airproducts, Concoa, Matheson, Victor, Linde, Smith, Praxair, Harris, and Union Carbide. There are many more I will probably add later as I remember...

*Note that all of these brand names produce single stage regulators as well.


-How and Where To Buy


This forum and Fleabay are your best bets. There are a few members that sell regulators and regulator supplies in the swap-n-shop and powerseller forums that have already done the work for you. If you are patient, you can find awesome deals on Fleabay. Just make sure you understand what you are bidding on. Many times, the sellers are not knowledgeable about the items they are selling/auctioning. Sometimes they even list the wrong brand or model number. There are a lot of us that can help out trying to select a regulator. Just ask if you know for sure. I'm going to say that spending around $50 on a used regulator body is fair(if it's in good condition). If I'm looking for a new one, I try not to spend over $100. These are just guide lines I try to fallow. There are better deals but they are fewer and fare between.




Parts Involved With Your Build



-Solenoid


You need a solenoid if you want to put reg on a timer and not have it going 24/7.

There are tons of different solenoids out there. Many of them will work for us. I'm only going to cover two for now.

Burkert 6011 - This is a very dependable choice. It comes with 1/8npt female ports and is easy to install and have work correctly. This a 110V solenoid that you can get with or with out a power cord or DIN connector. Note that it is directional. It comes labeled with a "P" on one end and a "A" on the other. "P" is the "in" side.
*Available in stainless steal.



Where do you get one?

Burkert

http://www.aquariumplants.com/product_p/sol.htm

*Note that if you order from Fresh Water Systems you will need to order the solenoid, DIN, and cable/plug. The one from aquariumplants.com you just need to decide if you want the cable/plug installed. Both available seal types work just fine - Buna-N is slightly better.

Clippard Mouse Solenoids - These are smaller low voltage solenoids. They come in standard and manifold mount and are available in 6, 12, 24VDC. I like the manifold mount because it gives you one 1/8npt male connection and one 10/32 female connection. You need Clippard part number ET-2M-6, or ET-2M-12, or ET-2M-24 and Clippard part number 15490-2. You will also need to come up with you're own DC converter of the appropriate voltage.

(manifold mount ET-2M-24)

(manifold 15490-2)

(standard mount ET-2-24)

http://www.clippard.com/store/
More to come.


-Needle/Metering Valve


There are a ton of needle valves out there to pick from. Many of them are not intended for the very low flow that we use for a planted tank. Ideal and Fabco are probably the most recognized. They are also a couple of my favorites. The best Needle valve I have used is the Ideal V54-1-12. It's stainless and has a metering handle. It's also expensive(>$130) and imposable to find used. It's brass counterpart without the metering handle option Is about $80, The Ideal 52-1-12(Vernier handle option V52-1-12) . The Fabco NV-55(10/32 ports) or NV-55-18(1/8npt ports) are great choices if you have more of a limited budget at $23 and $34 respectively.

Ideal valve 52 series(w/o vernier handle)



Ideal 54 series (stainless steel) (w/o vernier handle)



Needle Valve | Cast Bronze Needle Valve | Forged Brass Needle Valves | Stainless Steel Needle Valves | Custom Needle Valves | Ideal Valve Inc.
(you need to call Bill at Ideal to order)

Fabco NV-55



Fabco NV-55-18



http://store.fabco-air.com/products.php?cat=113


Here's one of Swagelok's better metering valves(for us), the 'S' series (These part #'s are for the stainless versions. Brass is also available.)

SS-SS4



SS-SS4-A-VH (same valve but angled with the vernier handle option)



Swagelok.com the source for tube fittings, valves, and other fluid system components

***Please note that there are many different Swagelok valves. While they are all very well made, I have only found the 'S' (low flow) series to be worth the money you're going to pay for them. These are best found used or 'new old stock' as they are expensive new. I should also add that most of them use tube fittings and a special adapter is need to plum them into your regulator. Try to find 1/8 npt or tube fittings models or 1/4 tube(best) fitting models. Also, the metric versions can be troublesome trying to find adapters for. Stay away from the VCR connection. 1/16 tube fitting models should only be used 'in-line'.


-Pipe Fittings


I really like Swagelok and Parker pipe fittings. They go together easily and don't leak if assembled properly. By no means are you limited to use these fittings. Most of these can be obtained at a well stocked hardware store. If you need the Swagelok part number for the stainless counterparts of the fittings listed below, just replace the first 'B' with 'SS'.


Swagelok # B-4-HRN-2 (Hex Reducing Nipple, 1/8 NPT x 1/4 NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-RB-2 (Reducing Bushing, 1/8 NPT x 1/4 NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-E (Elbow, Female 1/8 NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-SE (Street Elbow, 1/8 NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-ME (Male Elbow, 1/8 NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-HN (Hex Nipple, 1/8 NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-RSE-2 (Reducing Street Elbow, 1/4 in. Female NPT x 1/8 in. Male NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-HLN-1.50 (Hex Long Nipple, 1.5" 1/4 NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-HLN-2.00 (Hex Long Nipple, 2" 1/4 NPT)

Clippard # 11999-PKG (Short Coupling, #10-32)
Clippard # 15036-PKG (1/8” - 27 to #10-32 Reducer Plug)
Clippard # 2CPF-PKG (1/8” NPT to #10-32 Female Reducer)
Clippard # 15453 (Male #10-32 Coupling, stainless steel)
*You can't just order this one from their online store. You need to talk to a distributor. It is a lot stronger than part # 11999 and if you want to mount a NV-55, this is the way to go. This is a part you need to use Loctite with. I'll cover that later on. I've seen a couple builders here on the forum selling these as well.


-Swagelok Tube Fittings & Adapters


Swagelok # B-400-1-2 (Tube Fitting, Male Connector, 1/4 in. Tube OD x 1/8 in. Male NPT)
Swagelok # B-402-1 (Nut for 1/4 in. Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-403-1 (Front Ferrule for 1/4 in. Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-404-1 (Back Ferrule for 1/4 in. Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-405-2 (Tubing Insert, 1/4 in. OD x 1/8 in. ID)
Swagelok # B-6M0-1-2 Tube Fitting, Male Connector, 6 mm Tube OD x 1/8 in. Male NPT)
Swagelok # B-6M2-1
(Nut for 6 mm Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-6M3-1 (Front Ferrule for 6 mm Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-6M4-1 (Back Ferrule for 6 mm Swagelok Tube Fitting)
Swagelok # B-6M5-4M (Tubing Insert, 6 mm OD x 4 mm ID)
Swagelok # B-2-TA-1-2 (Male Tube Adapter, 1/8 in. Tube OD x 1/8 in. Male NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-TA-1-2 (Male Tube Adapter, 1/4 in. Tube OD x 1/8 in. Male NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-TA-7-2 (Female Tube Adapter, 1/8 in. Tube OD x 1/8 in. Female NPT)
Swagelok # B-4-TA-7-2 (Female Tube Adapter, 1/4 in. Tube OD x 1/8 in. Female NPT)
Swagelok # B-2-HC-A-401
(Hose Connector, 1/4 in. Tube Adapter, 1/8 in. Hose ID)
Swagelok # B-2-HC-A-201
(Hose Connector, 1/8 in. Tube Adapter, 1/8 in. Hose ID)

Here's a great resource about how to use Swagelok tube fittings:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/8226-How-to-use-Swagelok-tube-fittings


-CGA-320 Nut/Nipple



These come in various lengths. You can get them in brass, chrome plated brass, and stainless steel.


-Check Valves


Clippard part # MCV-1BB
(#10-32 ports, female in/out)
Clippard part # MCV-1
(#10-32 ports, male in/female out)
Clippard part # MCV-1AA
(#10-32 ports, male/male)

Swagelok # B-2C2-1/3
(Poppet Check Valve, Fixed Pressure, 1/8 in. MNPT, 1/3 psig)
Swagelok # B-4C-1/3
(Poppet Check Valve, Fixed Pressure, 1/4 in. Swagelok Tube Fitting, 1/3 psig)
Swagelok # B-2C4-1/3
(Poppet Check Valve, Fixed Pressure, 1/8 in. FNPT, 1/3 psig)


-Barb Fittings


Clippard part # 11752-4-PKG
(#10-32 male, 1/8 ID hose)
Clippard part # 11752-3-PKG
(#10-32 male, 1/8 ID hose, short barbs)
Clippard part # 2CP4-PKG
(1/8 NPT male, 1/8 ID hose)
Clippard part # 11924-1-PKG
(1/8 NPT male, 1/8 ID hose, short barbs)

The 1/8 NPT barb fittings can be found at most hardware stores.


-Bubble Counter


Here's the most common and reliable one:


It's made of brass and plastic and has an integrated check valve. This check valve is prone to failing and I highly recommend using another check under it when installing. While this style of bubble counter is convenient for the user, I don't really recommend them. There's a lot less that can go wrong with a cheap glass in-line counter.

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Tools



You can build one of the with nothing but a couple crescent wrenches and a pair of Vise Grips. However, some other tools will make the whole process a little easier.

-8" Crescent Wrenches
-Vise Grips
-Bench Vise
-Air Compressor
-Air Impact Driver
-Assorted Open End/Box Wrenches
-A Clean Place To Work
-Small Set Of Allen Wrenches
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Teflon Tape/Pipe Dope/Thread Locker



-Teflon Tape vs. Pipe Dope


High pressure connections. You need to tape these. If you use pipe dope on your CGA-320 nipple or your high pressure gauge, they will probably leak. Tape is also a good idea on all stainless steel pipe threads. It will probably keep you from breaking a thread one day. It is very important not to get tape on the ends of the threads. Little pieces get cut off and end up getting stuck places we don't want them. If you have to re-do a taped connection, be very careful to remove the residual tape from the threads.

Pipe dope. Great for small low pressure connections. I generally don't use it. When I do, it's for a situation where I can't use a lot force making the connection.

Red Loctite. You can pretty much use it for all your NPT connections. Problem is that it's very difficult to get them apart again. Some of you that have taken apart an old Victor reg probably know what I'm talking about. The only thing that I really use it for are those stainless 10-32 couplings. (That's how Clippard designed it...)


:poop: poop
 
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#521 ·
Oh Learned Masters of Pressurized Gas,

So I made an impulse purchase and scooped up this dual stage regulator:

Air Products E-12-4-N145B
Max Reg PSIG - 50 psi
Inlet: 3/4" threads with a CGA-326
Outlet: 1/8" MNPT with a Swagelock 316 GIV 90 deg fitting

My inexperience tells me at the very least I need to convert the inlet to a CGA-320 with a nut/nipple combo. Next the Swagelock needs to be replaced with a needle valve/solenoid combo, possibly with an adaptive fitting in between.

I know it can't be this easy, however ignorance is bliss and at the moment I am blissful. Any direction and advice would be most appreciated...
 

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#522 ·
I have never heard of anyone converting a regulator that was initially used for nitrous oxide, so your mileage may vary.

As you already seem to be aware, you need to replace the CGA326 nut and nipple with a CGA320 set.

In addition, as you mentioned, the Swagelok outlet needs to be removed, and a solenoid and needle valve need to be added. The regulator outlet is likely 1/4", and solenoids for our purposes are generally 1/8", so you will need a reducer in between. Depending on the solenoid and needle valve you choose, you may also need adapters/fittings to connect the two.
 
#526 ·
What's the weight on that thing? I only ask because vcr fittings aren't really intended to support much weight. You'll probably be fine but that thing looks heavy. Remember that the in port is only essentially a 1/4" tube. It's possible that if you knock the assembly over the tube could break and discharge your cylinder completely in just a couple seconds. It would be wise to build a stand to help support the regulators weight. Also, don't forget that the vcr fittings use a metal gasket to make the seal. You don't want to use any type of sealant when assembling them. You'll ruin the regulator.
 
#527 ·
The weight is the same as my regular npt reg. i only need the vcr 320 nipple and will be converting vcr hex to regular npt on the low pressure side, so the solenoid, needle valve will be regular npt. Hope that will work...
 
#528 · (Edited)
Thanks for the help guy's.I have had this up and running now for a week.I just set it and got lucky the first time with the bubble count.The way it is built I can add on later.Thanks again for the help.So glad I did not buy one of those pre-built systems and listen to you all instead. Feel free to check out my tank, link is in my signature
KH3
GH 8
pH 6.4
co2 35ppm

 
#529 ·
Sup guys! I'm trying to buy a decent regulator and it such a hassle. The more i look into the Milwaukee and I found out the pressure isn't stable and so is the aquatek. I'm thinking about the gla regulator but i think its a little much. So how much is it to get a custom built one with a solenoid and a precise needle valve and a regular reg with the paintball adapter would be great for future bigger tank since I'm gonna spend some money on it! Any suggestions?
 
#535 ·
Where did you fail? There are still plenty of people who will help you out, within reason.

I started with those 'beer' regulators. Took me a year of fish loss and lots of head scratching to figure out the reasons fir some of the snide comments I got from people who walked the same path.

(at least LeftC was really nice about it)

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2
 
#537 ·
Oh no no, friend. I started long before I met you.
Sorry, no idea how my post came across the wrong way. My appologies in any case.

If anyone, I became a regulator 'snob' given my middle of the night emergency water changes, watching my fish die. Somehow, a stuck open solenoid and EOTD that NEVER happens to anyone else but myself. 2 equipment failures at once.

Given that, I try to gently steer people away from what I consider junk. But try to explain that over and over again to people looking for a 'cheap' solution... That was the point I failed to make in the above post.

I paid for my lessons. Many times over.

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2
 
#538 · (Edited)
Daygoboiz,

I'm not going to lie to you, for me, the learning curve was steep to build my own regulator. I spent a LOT of time poring through oldpunk's and bettatail's guides over and over. At times, I even left the project alone for a while so that I can sit and stew over what I read. The vast plethora of choices is just daunting sometimes. But in the end, just the impressive beauty alone of that Dual Stage Regulator (DSR) sitting under my tank makes it all worth it. Like darkblade said, give your co2 tank and regulator some prominence and it even becomes a conversation starter. Heck, the regulator alone initiated tons of conversations. Your price range is more than enough to join the DSR club. Just remember, you can simplify a LOT of the things. You don't have to go all out. The essentials are merely intake/regulator/solenoid/needle valve. And if you run your CO2 manually or 24/7, you can even drop the solenoid -- but I think it's really worth it to have the solenoid.

It's merely the commitment of your time. Then, you too, can become a regulator snob! :)


Oh, also, if you go this route, and are not space limited, don't bother with the paintball valve. Just get a 5LB co2 tank or bigger. A real regulator looks ridiculous on the paintball tank and it also doesn't balance right -- which makes it somewhat dangerous. I had your mindset and I wasted my money on a paintball to CGA320 adapter. That alone was 15-16 bucks. That's almost 1/4 the price of the tank!
 
#546 ·
Hey OVT what is wrong with the regs for beer? Are they all single stage?
 
#547 · (Edited by Moderator)
Most, but not all.
I used an old cornelius for a few years without issue, they are cheap.
The few dual stagers tend to be a lot more $.

I've had several clients with rather interesting demands and requirements so I ended up putting a 1200$ mass flow controller on one tank, and recently I installed an automated tank replacement system.

When gas tank #1 gets down to 200 psi, the other tank switches over and the system is never without CO2, say if you do not catch the tank being empty for a few days, or a couple of weeks.

We've all done this and if not, wait, you will:cool:

Cost is about 450$ for the micromatic.

You can also get digital gauges for the read outs which can then use a signal to alert you electronically when the psi in the tank drops before a user defined set point.

About 200$ or so.

ADA fan boys(have not yet met a gal like this) often come across as snobs, but these dual stage regs with some of this stuff makes the best ADA CO2 system look like plastic bubbling skeletons by comparison.
 
#550 ·
WTF? A wall of wire mesh? Inlet filter?

A few posts back, I asked for some guidance in regards to an Air Products regulator that needed some modification. Darkblade was kind enough to point a noob down the right path, yet expressed his concern since I was converting a reg that was previously used for NO2. (Hopefully it was coming in under 10 seconds on the quarter mile.)

So I get the CGA-326 nipple/nut off without too much difficulty only to reveal what appears to be a dense wire mesh within the intake port. Please see the photo and tell me I didn't hit a dead end... Could this be some form of intake filter? Specific for NO2 use maybe?

Any advice appreciated!
 

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