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What causes BBA? It's killing me!

34K views 139 replies 34 participants last post by  dkraft12 
#1 · (Edited)
So what causes BBA? Every time I read on here about everyone points to inconsistent co2. IMO my co2 is consistent and at a high level, at the end of the day I'm at a 1 point ph drop if not more. I can't turn it up more than it is or I'll kill all my fish. I've trimmed it out, hit it with h202 and excel but it just keeps coming back. I started getting it about 2 months ago when I stopped dosing csmb for a week and it just won't go away.

Water parameters are as follows

Tank - 40B
Lighting - high
Ph- 6.8 degassed, 5.8 peak co2
Gh - 6
Kh - 6
Temp - 77
No3 - 40ppm
Po4 - 5ppm (have a hard time with test as I'm always unsure of the color)
EI dosing:
Kno3 - 1/2 3x week
Po4 - 1/16tsp 3x week
Csm+b - 1/16tsp 3x week
 
#2 ·
BBA selectively grows on non-growing parts of plants, or at least that is what I have seen. Anubias is a very popular target for BBA because of its very slow growth. Also, leaves that have stopped growing - those farther down on stem plants, and dead leaves, all attract BBA. That seems to suggest that if your plants are always actively growing, in good health, they are much less likely to become hosts for BBA.

I have also consistently noticed that I get BBA when I don't have the same amount of CO2 in the water during each photo cycle. Even if I don't dose Excel in the same amounts every day I notice BBA starting up.

Other people have posted that not keeping dissolved organics out of the tank water - regular water changes - encourages BBA. And, likewise, not keeping the tank clean, the filter clean, and all debris removed from the tank, seem to encourage BBA. I think I have experienced that also.

Perhaps we can say that BBA is the opposite of the good housekeeping seal of approval?
 
#3 ·
I don't agree with the idea of inconsistent CO2 as I was running a controller and letting it keep PH within .2 so the CO2 should have been level both day and night. However I felt that I created a bad situation when using Osmocote plus capsules. It seemed to be the cause of my phosphate shooting high.
I read many reports stating that high phosphate will not be a problem but then my experience watching a lake seemed different. We lived on a very nice clear lake which had one arm which started to collect far more algae and the water was no longer clear. As a solution, the largest city in the area installed phosphate removal on their sewage treatment and the water cleared in a very short time. The local EPA experts blamed high phosphate levels for algae blooms.
When using O+ tabs, I was getting BB even on my limestone rocks and equipment like filter in/out. I have gone back to using Flourish tabs and have far less BB.
But then algae has been around far longer than people so I doubt that we will solve the riddle any time soon. I hope to just help it down some.
 
#4 ·
Yeah I don't really buy the inconsistent co2 viewpoint. The only thing I see to that is that if your tank is used to a certain level of co2 and then it drops for an extended period of time the uptake drops so your organic load in the WC is higher thus the BBA or other forms of algae find a niche. Whenever I see a tuff of the stuff I increase water changes, reduce lighting a bit, remove any dying or dead leaf, clean filter and it seems to stop.

The dissolved organic viewpoint makes sense to me in that when we have a tank loaded with plants (much greater uptake) it's easier to control algae vs one with just a few plants. Same with a new tank. We get algae because the biofilter is immature and the plants aren't uptaking enough as they adjust. That is the reason you need more chemical/mechanical organic removal media when you start up.
 
#6 ·
I've had BBA recently (hoping I've one this latest battel). For me it is on the rocks and the circulation pump, not on any plants. i had other algae issues, but resolved them with H202. The H2O2 treatment damaged teh BBA and the fish ate some of it, but I had to manually remove it in the end.

I did this by removing all the items with BBA (rocks, pump) and soaking them in chlorine water. I then used a stainless steel pot scrubber to scrub them clean. I then soaked in Prime water and back in the tank.

That was about 3 weeks ago and I've seen no sight of BBA since. I think that it is easier to keep it out, than to get rid of it.

I don't know what causes it to start, but I've always had to manually remove it.

david
 
#10 ·
I'm with Leeatl on not having ever seen it until I went planted. But that also comes with upping the lighting and adding ferts so it doesn't help me pin it to any single cause other than it does seem to come with plants.
Maybe it is the simple fact that I used to fight to keep tanks clean and now I'm putting dirt in instead of taking it out?
 
#11 ·
It seems to have to be true that there is more than one way to stop BBA, since various people report good results with different corrective actions. The most "impressive" is Tom Barr's report that he took BBA infested plants and put them in one of his BBA free tanks, which had good CO2, and the infested plants all recovered as the BBA disappeared. My experience with it is that once I get it, I never totally get rid of all of it. It does become just a small nuisance maintenance issue sometimes, but it is still there. Keep in mind that I have low light, so at worst, it grows slowly anyway.
 
#13 ·
So what are come causes of BBA? Every time I read on here about everyone points to inconsistent co2.
It is a lot of times but not always. I had a problem with it when I started my tanks. I did not have the option to increase Co2. My nitrates were very low. I worked on increasing the nitrates. Plus added a 3hr siesta period in my light period. Lights on 3hrs/ off 3hrs/ on 3hrs on. The siesta period helps the most. When I try the mid noon affect, lights strongest at noon, the black algae comes back. When it pokes its head I start dosing with peroxide and increase the dosing of Metricide Co2 additive.

Bad algae is due to an imbalance. Imbalance can be caused by lights on too long, poor circulation, and over feeding fish.
 
#14 ·
Don't know if this will be of any use to you guys, but, at work I access to this product. At 7.9%, it contains at least twice the concentration of peroxide as what you can buy in the store. I have used it in my tank several times and it definitely is potent stuff. Turns bba red pretty quickly. I typically use this during a water change when the water level is below what I want to clean.
Advanced Peroxide Cleaner
 
#16 ·
Looks to toxic for me to get near. I have a chem sensitivity problem.

How do you dose it?

Bump:
But then I also do not spend much effort to fight algae as I have several African cichlids who do search the algae as if they were going to find some micro organism.
Part of the old idea that all African mbuna eat algae that has been proven wrong. They eat from the algae but not the algae but either way I like to leave it. I feel it may keep the little buggers busy so they don't invent some other way to do me in!
:icon_lol:
 
#15 ·
And for yet another "cure" whether it works or not?
I had a chunk of limestone that was totally covered in BBA. But then I also do not spend much effort to fight algae as I have several African cichlids who do search the algae as if they were going to find some micro organism. Basic genes for them? Part of the old idea that all African mbuna eat algae that has been proven wrong. They eat from the algae but not the algae but either way I like to leave it. I feel it may keep the little buggers busy so they don't invent some other way to do me in!
But finally I did want to move this rock to another tank and as a part of that I did want to knock the algae down. That part was complicated by the amount of java fern growing on the rocks and wood with some algae there also. So I settled for just doing a bleach soak on the parts that I could cover without getting too much of the plant soaked. The bleach soak did a decent job of killing the algae so I put it in the new tank. After a few weeks, I got the six new rainbow cichlids into the tank but it was a really empty looking 75!
The solution that I had not considered showed up in a Craigslist ad and I went to pick up some free fish as simple "placeholders" while the rainbow grow.
Ten small to tiny platies who absolutely love picking algae off the rock!

Now, before anybody has spasms about the combo, I am aware of potential conflicts as I do intend to breed the cichlids. But they are rainbow cichlids and I have kept them before. The combo is serving the purpose and if it gives me trouble, I will change it. But for now the tank looks much better. The rainbow cichlids are great little folks when they are calmed by the presence of fish who do not hide. Before, I had no fish in sight and now I have 16 fish I can see as well as a group who is plucking algae.
Maybe turn some platies loose on your algae?
:wink2:
 
#33 ·
And for yet another "cure" whether it works or not?
I had a chunk of limestone that was totally covered in BBA. But then I also do not spend much effort to fight algae as I have several African cichlids who do search the algae as if they were going to find some micro organism. Basic genes for them? Part of the old idea that all African mbuna eat algae that has been proven wrong. They eat from the algae but not the algae but either way I like to leave it. I feel it may keep the little buggers busy so they don't invent some other way to do me in!
But finally I did want to move this rock to another tank and as a part of that I did want to knock the algae down. That part was complicated by the amount of java fern growing on the rocks and wood with some algae there also. So I settled for just doing a bleach soak on the parts that I could cover without getting too much of the plant soaked. The bleach soak did a decent job of killing the algae so I put it in the new tank. After a few weeks, I got the six new rainbow cichlids into the tank but it was a really empty looking 75!
The solution that I had not considered showed up in a Craigslist ad and I went to pick up some free fish as simple "placeholders" while the rainbow grow.
Ten small to tiny platies who absolutely love picking algae off the rock!

Now, before anybody has spasms about the combo, I am aware of potential conflicts as I do intend to breed the cichlids. But they are rainbow cichlids and I have kept them before. The combo is serving the purpose and if it gives me trouble, I will change it. But for now the tank looks much better. The rainbow cichlids are great little folks when they are calmed by the presence of fish who do not hide. Before, I had no fish in sight and now I have 16 fish I can see as well as a group who is plucking algae.
Maybe turn some platies loose on your algae?
:wink2:
Would be more inclined to turn the rainbow cichlid's themselves loose on the algae.
They are noted for eating algae and one of a few species of smaller cichlid's that have teeth for doing so.
I kept a small group of them with some keyhole cichlid's some year's ago, and was one of my favorite tank's.
Necropsy evidence suggest's that mbuna as well as some south American cichlid's do indeed ingest fair amount of algae.
just sayin.
 
#23 · (Edited)
High light makes it grow faster (as it does I think to every plant/algae), but definitely not a requirement for BBA. Go into any LFS that's been around awhile and look at some of their tanks. Most have lower light levels, lots of fish, a few plants (maybe) and you'll almost always find BBA on some cheesy decor in the tank.
 
#29 ·
So, reading over the answers and considering the question, "what causes BBA", I think I would say we don't know?
Lots of ideas but no firm answer so this is when I would try a few things to see how it might work in my tank. Step one for me would be to try simple things. One is stop dosing phosphate and see if it moves in the right direction. I have the feeling that you will still be getting phosphate in the fish food but at least it may be a lower level.
If you have Osmocote tabs under the sub. it may take a lot to get the phosphate lower but for lack of a really good answer, that is the way I would move.
 
#48 · (Edited)
Well you may be onto something here. Today when I got home I broke out the po4 test kit, test results pictured below. The vile on the left is out of the tap and the one on the right is tank water. Now these things make me feel like I'm color blind every time I use them, but to me it looks like it's in the 3-4ppm range. This is concerning due to the fact po4 is almost nonexistent in the tap water and I just did a 50% wc yesterday. So today being the start of the fert schedule I only dosed kno3 and will retest po4 on Wednesday before dosing.

So other than algae, what will excess po4 cause? What can I look for and what are some possibities for the plants not using up the po4?
 
#35 ·
from my experience, it was keeping the CO2 high and consistent that got rid of my BBA. I mean high until my fishes are gasping and pearling on the plants at the best ive seen. I mean consistent as in 3-4 days without any changes to CO2 levels.

BBA will grow on parts that aren't doing so hot. I make it hot for them by dosing 200% recommended liquid fertz.
 
#38 ·
Since I started adding about 3-6 ppm of CO2 to my low medium light tank it looks like I now have a bit more BBA than I used to. My plants are growing much, much better, but I may have more BBA, so, for me, the jury is still out on whether using low CO2 encourages BBA, even while improving the plants health. That makes no sense to me, but BBA makes no sense to me either.
 
#40 ·
I think this will be one that there will be no clear answer for a long time yet. With each of out tanks being different in many ways, I would expect things like algae to perform differently as well. Just thing that will vary and we can't measure very well is the CO2 in the water. We can know how much we bubble into some degree but how much do we lose? We can use a drop checker and judge colors but then we also know that is not very precise. We can measure our PH and guess at how much CO2 but then that also depends on what minerals are in our water doesn't it? Without far more precise measurement of CO2, how do we ever say we have 20PPM or 30+ PPM?
Other than only having half as many bubbles per minutes, etc. how do we know when we have moved from one level to another? Do we just assume that the gassing off has not been changed in some way like a lower tank water level?
I don't see much chance at getting a firm answer until we get a far better way to test the questions.
 
#42 ·
I only have had BBA on some wood and on powerheads and filter pipes. Similar to what Hoppy said, it seems to only grow on things that dont grow, old leaves, and hardscape. A good solution I have is 2 SAE, they clear out algae quickly, but prefer fish food. The thing I have heard people say is that once they get older, they stop. They will stop regardless if they are full. If algae is a problem, I will let the tank go hungry for a couple days, then the algae magically is gone. They dont touch my plants. Flagfish are arguably better, they eat a ton of it, and once I got rid of them, hair algaes and BBA popped up on my driftwood. I got rid of them as they are nasty, they nip fins like crazy, and ate 1/2 of my DHG and all of the HC I was trying to grow. If you have tougher plants like swords and crypts, they are very good for keeping it under control, fine leafed plants are a no-go with these guys. Guppys and platies are pretty good, I often see my guppies eating hair algae off my plants, they dont eat a lot but they are pretty good. Not really the most on-topic post, but may be helpful for people trying to get rid of it.
 
#46 ·
My humble understanding is that as long as CO2 remains above non limiting levels, it can go up and down without any (algae) problems.

But when co2 up and down at a limiting level, or between limiting and non limiting, the plants become confused, so to speak, as it tries to adapt by allocating resources (energy) to either gathering CO2 from other sources (via rubisco production) or being able to use all it's resources for other things when CO2 is plentiful.

I believe having stable co2 is most important, regardless of how much it is. This goes along with the idea that healthy plants are the main deterrent. Plants take time to adapt to varying conditions, days or even weeks sometimes. Algae doesnt.

Also just from personal experience, big thing for me that that keeps away bba specifically, is maintaining very clean conditions with no organic waste or decaying matter laying around, this includes any dead or dying plant leaves.
 
#47 · (Edited)
..
Also just from personal experience, big thing for me that that keeps away bba specifically, is maintaining very clean conditions with no organic waste or decaying matter laying around, this includes any dead or dying plant leaves.
As most of you know by now this has been my rock solid position as well. Everything is based off of this for me.
 
#52 ·
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not quick to pull out the test kits. The last time I tested po4 it was about the same color, so I feel likes it's probably been running this high for months. I'll have to go back in my threads and see what the issue was at the time I last tested it. I'm only about 8 months into the whole dosing aspect and it's a constant learning experience.
 
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