My office bowl (Updated Pics 10/22) - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #31 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 04:27 PM
ony
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If he isn't stunted he should be 4 inches and quite chunky.
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post #32 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 05:23 PM
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Thanks for sharing your bowl, it looks quite amazing.

And People just lay off the witch hunt over the paradise fish. It looks like it's doing quite fine, the OP will have a better idea of how the fish is faring than you do from looking at a few photos as they can observe their behavior and use their best judgement as to whether it appears healthy. Taking it back to the LFS would probably lead to a much worse end to this fish. The average LFS fish probably ends up in an overstocked 10 gallon community tank where it succumbs to poor water quality or possibly a lethal dose of chlorine. To dispatch fish behavior work as "animal testing" is purely ludicous, its actually more valid than even someone with 2 paradise fish in a 75 gallon tank because it's actually providing valid scientific information about this species, avaiable to all in the annals of peer reviewed journals. If you actually get into the concepts of animal ethics you will find that a fish in captivity is best off euthanized, they belong in the wild, and they can't go back, so be grateful for the enjoyment you are getting from keeping your fish and stop trying to chastise others who are doing the same. Anabantoid fish are well suited to an unfiltered tank, many of them are fine unheated, as these are the conditions they inhabit in the wild. Sure they may be reported to grow to 4", this fish doesn't look to be 4", in fact, it looks like about 2.5" and 30-40% of that is tail, if it grows rapidly and is clearly distressed, I'm sure the OP will find it another home.
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post #33 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 05:51 PM
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A-frickin-men to that. Put em away and zip it up.
Awesome bowl, I think it looks great, and I wish my job would let me keep a bowl on my desk.
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post #34 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 07:39 PM
ony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james1542 View Post
And People just lay off the witch hunt over the paradise fish. It looks like it's doing quite fine, the OP will have a better idea of how the fish is faring than you do from looking at a few photos as they can observe their behavior and use their best judgement as to whether it appears healthy. Taking it back to the LFS would probably lead to a much worse end to this fish. The average LFS fish probably ends up in an overstocked 10 gallon community tank where it succumbs to poor water quality or possibly a lethal dose of chlorine. To dispatch fish behavior work as "animal testing" is purely ludicous, its actually more valid than even someone with 2 paradise fish in a 75 gallon tank because it's actually providing valid scientific information about this species, avaiable to all in the annals of peer reviewed journals. If you actually get into the concepts of animal ethics you will find that a fish in captivity is best off euthanized, they belong in the wild, and they can't go back, so be grateful for the enjoyment you are getting from keeping your fish and stop trying to chastise others who are doing the same. Anabantoid fish are well suited to an unfiltered tank, many of them are fine unheated, as these are the conditions they inhabit in the wild. Sure they may be reported to grow to 4", this fish doesn't look to be 4", in fact, it looks like about 2.5" and 30-40% of that is tail, if it grows rapidly and is clearly distressed, I'm sure the OP will find it another home.
He will never grow rapidly in such a small volume of water due to stunting. This basically means that the fish slows or stops growing externally, the internal organs are compressed until something stops functioning. There's often very little sign of damage until the spine starts starts warp under the the internal pressure or the swim bladder is damaged. If conditions improve in time stunting can be reversed, if not its permanent and ultimately fatal. Just to be clear I've not gone into ethics here and I'm not going to, my only beef is with the sheer quantity of misinformation in this hobby. If we don't speak up once we learn better it's endlessly perpetuated, if there is anyone in this thread who hasn't fallen foul of bad fishkeeping advice at some point I would be surprised.

Last edited by ony; 12-05-2012 at 07:40 PM. Reason: typo
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post #35 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 08:02 PM
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1 Paradise Fish in 20 gallon tank:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wd4pzswYsQ


Looks lovely.
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post #36 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idleivey View Post
Source: Pseudosphromenus cupanus inhabits lowland streams, freshwater ponds and even ditches.

So my bowl is a ditch in this example . . .
Pictures of "ditches" (notice the large volume of water).
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...w=1280&bih=611

Pictures of puddles (notice the small volume of water).
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...w=1280&bih=611

Bowl = a puddle, not a ditch. Just something to think about. Do with it, what you will.
Either way, good luck.

Last edited by Acro; 12-05-2012 at 09:20 PM. Reason: .
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post #37 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 09:12 PM
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To the OP,
There have been several smart and experienced Planted Tank members giving advice. Most have the same thoughts about the bowl. They are not attacking you, they are just trying to help you and your fish. They are expressing what they believe will help your fish live a fuller healthier and longer life. And if the fish can live a fuller healthier and longer life then you, the OP, will be able to enjoy the fish more and be happier because of that.
I strongly suggest you take their concerns and advice into consideration. It is natural to put up one's defences when one feels attacked, but try to really absorb the advice that has been given. If the advice does not work for you, then abandon this post, do things your way and move on.
Either way, good luck.

Last edited by Acro; 12-05-2012 at 09:32 PM. Reason: .
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post #38 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 01:33 AM
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I'm intrigued, I know you denounced animal research as evil, but where are the studies providing the data for this stunting theory of yours(and don't give me some gold fish paper because goldfish are not paradise fish, they probably diverged 15 million years ago so they are not same). Why would the skeleton, muscles and epithelium cease growing, but the organs continue growing? That doesn't make any sense. And if your just going off of, oh I see deformed fish in small tanks, well, there are so many factors that cause skeletal deformity in fish it's impossible to just declare one thing as the culprit accurately. It could very well be genetic, temperature, viral, bacterial, pH, nutritional, physical trauma-all well documented causes of skeletal deformity, but it's the tank that is 3 body lengths in diameter?

I agree with you that it's probably not the best choice in stocking a 4 gallon bowl, as you have a lot less margin for error with a fish that will basically max out your carrying cap when fully grown (maybe in a year or 2.....c'mon man the average lifespan of a tank now a days is probably 3 months...sad I know). But keep an open mind, you might learn something about balancing a heavily stocked, low tech planted bowl tank at your office! Just because some one else does something diffrently than you doesn't automatically make them wrong. I know no body is trying to attack the OP as a person, but you have effectively hijacked their tank journal, and told them to get rid of their fish, or stop posting here. What is wrong with you guys. If you really want to do something about the abuse of aquarium fish, you should be protesting out side the pet shops selling these things to whoever shows up with 6 dollars, or telling the breeders who puts thousands of them on the market each month to stop producing them.

I look forward to the next update, I hope all the BS doesn't discourage you from participating in this forum in the future. Thank you for taking the time to share with us.
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post #39 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james1542 View Post
I'm intrigued, I know you denounced animal research as evil, but where are the studies providing the data for this stunting theory of yours(and don't give me some gold fish paper because goldfish are not paradise fish, they probably diverged 15 million years ago so they are not same). Why would the skeleton, muscles and epithelium cease growing, but the organs continue growing? That doesn't make any sense. And if your just going off of, oh I see deformed fish in small tanks, well, there are so many factors that cause skeletal deformity in fish it's impossible to just declare one thing as the culprit accurately. It could very well be genetic, temperature, viral, bacterial, pH, nutritional, physical trauma-all well documented causes of skeletal deformity, but it's the tank that is 3 body lengths in diameter?

I agree with you that it's probably not the best choice in stocking a 4 gallon bowl, as you have a lot less margin for error with a fish that will basically max out your carrying cap when fully grown (maybe in a year or 2.....c'mon man the average lifespan of a tank now a days is probably 3 months...sad I know). But keep an open mind, you might learn something about balancing a heavily stocked, low tech planted bowl tank at your office! Just because some one else does something diffrently than you doesn't automatically make them wrong. I know no body is trying to attack the OP as a person, but you have effectively hijacked their tank journal, and told them to get rid of their fish, or stop posting here. What is wrong with you guys. If you really want to do something about the abuse of aquarium fish, you should be protesting out side the pet shops selling these things to whoever shows up with 6 dollars, or telling the breeders who puts thousands of them on the market each month to stop producing them.

I look forward to the next update, I hope all the BS doesn't discourage you from participating in this forum in the future. Thank you for taking the time to share with us.
Entirely unscientific but I made a mistake with an over large batch of paradise fish fry when I was new to the hobby myself. Paradise fish grow very fast in good conditions and should be ready to breed within a year so your suggestion that the OPs should reach adult size in a year or two is ridiculous. I'm not suggesting the OP discard his fish, merely upgrade its tank but I think you already knew that.
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post #40 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 02:41 AM
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I too keep blue paradise fish. I have a pair (male/female) and a few platys in a 150 gallon tank. Yes, they move around alot, but about every two weeks or so they spawn and the male barely moves at all since he's guarding the nest.. perhaps in a 15 cm radius. Their natural habitat is overgrown backwaters where there is no open water and they sit around waiting for pray or poke around to find things to eat while roaming slowly..

I think bigger is better with these fish, but I also think they'r one of few fish that wont really care about small tanks, as long as its vegitated.

As for stunting, if Im not totally off, it happens because the water gets saturated with hormones. Regular waterchanges should do fine to prevent it
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post #41 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 06:25 AM
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For most fish, they don't max out for a few years. they could mature in say 4-5 months of age true, but most fish keep growing throughout life. To me I guess I'm mostly concerned more with water quality and agression management than tank dimensions. I've kept dozens of sub-adult Apistograms-together in 5 gallons of water, without any harm to the fish. Of course they were on a much larger recirculation system with their waste products constantly being flushed away, but the point is they didn't have much space but they never developed any deformities. I agree it's a dicey move to select a fish of this size for a 4 gallon tank, but by the OP's restraint in just adding the one fish (any others would probably be killed by it) and clearly their ability to maintain a lushly planted aquarium, all looks fine to me. And like Soil mentioned, this species is probably one of the few of this size that could work in this setting. Had they selected a 4" rift lake cichlid it would end horribly, a 4" angel fish-horribly, a 4" goldfish-horribly.
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post #42 of 66 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the kind words james, I had sort of stopped looking here but I can post another update

Here it is in its current state, upgraded the hardware a bit courtesy of my local goodwill. Sorry about the pictures, I need to bring something better then my cellphone camera to work.







edit: Here it is from the other day before the water change so no micro bubbles everywhere.

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post #43 of 66 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 09:54 PM
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What's that plant growing out of the bowl? I tried to look at previous posts but got annoyed from all of the arguments lol I like the wooden stand the bowl is sitting on!
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post #44 of 66 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks!

It's some form of ludwigia, it has pretty much gone entirely emergent at this point. I moved some to my PAR38 5 gallon to try the same thing.
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post #45 of 66 (permalink) Old 01-07-2013, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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