Frank's Planted Tank How-To Mini Novel - The Mini S Returns! New Layout - Page 66 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #976 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-06-2013, 01:01 AM
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Adding floating plants would only further shade the layout and inhibit the growth of the plants underneath - if you were to add, I would add more plants that survive in the substrate.

The best thing to do is to keep up with the tank, use it as a learning exercise and start budgeting for a very basic Co2 system and light - it'll definitely earn you a lot of return on your dollar over time.
The whole thing is planted or has stones, so really there isn't anywhere else to plant things...
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post #977 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-06-2013, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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The whole thing is planted or has stones, so really there isn't anywhere else to plant things...
If the aquarium is totally grown in or mostly full - then this hints at a filtration capacity problem (or again, the co2 consistency issue), speaking in terms of biological filtration capacity.
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post #978 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-06-2013, 06:04 PM
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If the aquarium is totally grown in or mostly full - then this hints at a filtration capacity problem (or again, the co2 consistency issue), speaking in terms of biological filtration capacity.
It is mostly full I would say, but only because I planted it to the amount I wanted it, knowing the plants wouldn't grow fast. So it is full because I planted it not because the plants filled in. If that makes sense...could be filtration. How does filtration directly affect algae? Would you suggest changing from 50/50 mechanical to bio media to 100% bio media?
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post #979 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-06-2013, 07:14 PM
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It is mostly full I would say, but only because I planted it to the amount I wanted it, knowing the plants wouldn't grow fast. So it is full because I planted it not because the plants filled in. If that makes sense...could be filtration. How does filtration directly affect algae? Would you suggest changing from 50/50 mechanical to bio media to 100% bio media?
I will speak on this, even though you are asking Frank, I have done many low tech tanks without hard to grow plants (HC for example) with no CO2.

The first key thing is having the right amount of light. It may or may not be low light. I like CFL bulbs on nano tanks because you can go from low light to high light by swapping bulbs. I get two sets of bulbs, starting with the lower and if I don't see good color I up the light (more important than growth to me because good color will get good growth). Good color is relative here because you won't get crazy rich colors with the amount of light that is reasonable. You saw the plants I sent you, that wasn't great color, even for low tech but they all had color.


Filtration, IMO, isn't as significant but you want good filtration. More good bacteria, more good happens in the tank. However, I have had plenty of low tech tanks that didn't have great filtration that worked great.

Watch what happens after water changes. If you get algae afterwards, do smaller, or less often, or smaller less often. That changes the CO2 level. Even though you are not injecting CO2, their is CO2 in the water. Large water changes lead to inconstant CO2 levels.
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post #980 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-07-2013, 07:52 AM
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Frank, that is a great post. It shows that even a little amount of effort can go along way toward solving algae problems.

I look forward to seeing the further progress!
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post #981 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 04:55 AM
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Thanks for the great information.
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post #982 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 04:42 AM
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Re: Frank's Planted Tank How-To Mini Novel - ALGAE MESS! and how to fix it fast!

Maybe you can answer this one Frank. My stems will not grow vertical.. all to the side under the aquasky. Right now my co2 is around 1-1.5 bps and dosing one pump each daily. Everything was good until now, I'm starting to get some algae on glass. Not diatoms but green stringy one. What would you say is different here compared to ada view mini m setup. In 8 days the stems were to surface (2" growth). Mine are making new leaves and shoots but refuse to go up. Perhaps the reason of growth rate and algae is a sign up needing more nutrients? If my light is so high couldn't I bump the co2 to 2bps, and raise ferts to two pumps or is there something I am missing?

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post #983 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe you can answer this one Frank. My stems will not grow vertical.. all to the side under the aquasky. Right now my co2 is around 1-1.5 bps and dosing one pump each daily. Everything was good until now, I'm starting to get some algae on glass. Not diatoms but green stringy one. What would you say is different here compared to ada view mini m setup. In 8 days the stems were to surface (2" growth). Mine are making new leaves and shoots but refuse to go up. Perhaps the reason of growth rate and algae is a sign up needing more nutrients? If my light is so high couldn't I bump the co2 to 2bps, and raise ferts to two pumps or is there something I am missing?

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I sure can explain it.

Aside from the fact that the Niigata gallery sits on a special magnetic spot on the planet which polarizes nature for optimal growth, it's a pretty easy explanation.

ADA exclusively uses wabi kusa now - which are basically plants "pre-growing" while being farmed. This means that when they use a wabi kusa, the plant in question has already been well established, has everything it needs to grow and is optimally healthy in most cases.

A similar kind of advantage can be had with Tissue Culture plants because they arrive healthier at your door and make an easier transition to a planted tank.

Where as when we get other plants, even from living-but-sub-optimal tanks, they have to 1.) Get cut, 2.) planted, 3.) make transitions and adjust to a new environment where all the variables are still up in the air.

If you look at earlier Amano work and time lapses - you'll see growth similar to yours, and it's not typically until the end of the first month that the stems are at the top.

If you're starting from zero by using a normal plant (non wabi kusa, non tissue culture propagated), then basically starting with tissue culture is like +1, and bona fide wabi kusa is +3.

Basically the stems you have now are doing a very common plant strategy for dominance in their environment - they're growing out to cover ground so they can grow up to shade out other plants. You can steadily increase you dosages without much issue and just keep things going.

The wabi kusa with Rotala green in it just has like 10 trillion individual stems in it, so they're already "spread out" and they have no choice but to go up except on the periphery. Like my 60-P at home now, which had a rough start, I had like 100-200 stems of Rotala Green going and it's formed a hugely thick bush that is now pushing up since there are other stem plants essentially blocking the path.

The only difference (aside from wabi kusa) between your aquarium and Mr. Amano's, is Mr. Amano's first hand experience. He just knows how much to plant, where to plant and in what quantities from over 20 years of doing it. That's really the only magic going on.

In a lot of cases, the reason for mishaps or improper growth is simply experience and technique. For example - today I did a 100% water change on the 180-P in the gallery on the third week, instead of the normal 40%. Not only in that tank am I stretching the schedule (daily water changes for 2 weeks, every other day in week 3 & 4). I can't even tell you approximately why I did it - except that to my eyes the water looked weird / off from what it should look like. So, that's not a schedule or a thing that can be taught, it's purely just practice and experience.

As it turns out, it was a good thing to do that water change, as there was a power outtage over the weekend, and the water wasn't flowing for 5-6 hours.
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post #984 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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Admittedly, I've fallen a bit behind lately.

Mostly due to the SXSW festival, if I were to be totally honest.

But I have some goody teasers for you in the Mini M:


Revamped Unzan Stone Layout by Francis Wazeter, on Flickr
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post #985 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-19-2013, 12:38 AM
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It looks truly amazing Frank!

I know you're a huge fan of the aquasky, but I've found that it is just way too much light, and I can't increase the co2 anymore without gassing the fish. Do you know if ADA will ever make dimmable ones?
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post #986 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-19-2013, 02:14 AM
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Hey Frank, what is the other plant next to the moss?
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post #987 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-19-2013, 04:10 AM Thread Starter
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It's staurogyne Porto Velho - I replaced the bolbitus heteroclita mini after my suspicions of it not being truly aquatic. It seems to stay alive in water but not a single new bud concerned me. Fortunately this layout style is easy to modify on the go - once I get a complete shot of it like this ill add a few varieties to change the layout over time and enjoy different interpretations of the same core skeleton.
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post #988 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-19-2013, 06:22 AM
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SXSW is most def an awesome experience! i go almost every year. but on to the real question what kind of fish are those? i saw some in my LFS and almost got them but wasnt sure on their requirements or what they were!
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post #989 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-19-2013, 11:23 AM
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Pseudomugil furcatus (threadfin rainbows)?

"I am Groot", the faithful protector
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post #990 of 1094 (permalink) Old 03-19-2013, 01:57 PM
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Pseudomugil furcatus (threadfin rainbows)?
Right scientific name, but the common name is "furcata rainbows" or "fork-tail blue eye" depending who you talk to. The green ones are microdevario kubotai (emerald rasboras).
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