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Goldfish-happy to hear your input

2K views 15 replies 9 participants last post by  overgrown 
#1 ·
I kinda hijacked a journal asking about goldfish so to avoid further hijacking I'm posting a new thread here and quoting the conversation from earlier:

Hi Aqua Aurora,

I always enjoy your tank posts, especially your 10 gallon.

I kept goldfish for around a decade, and in my experience they sample everything in the tank to see if it's edible; they're quite omnivorous. This behavior was affectionately referred to as "sharking" in my family. I'd encourage you to try goldfish if you're willing to maintain a large tank for them and fight the constant nitrate war, as they are eating and waste producing machines. They are a lot of fun, not easily spooked, and make for a unique display tank. But also a lot of maintenance in the way of water changes, at least in my experience. Java ferns and Java moss, hornwort as a floater (about the only place I use it, as the goldies don't seem to eat it), and fast growing "sacrificial" stems like anacharis are what I've used successfully in goldfish tanks. I've had crypts and swords survive but not thrive, as the goldfish would grub around in the substrate and eat plant roots, even though they didn't consume leaves.
Thank you for the compliment and info! I'd be re-using a 55g with an ehiem pro 3 2080 (monster canister filter) either for 1 comet OR 3 of one of these types: fancy, fantail, or veil tail (3 fish total not 9) not sure which I prefer yet, from my research yesterday that will put me at a high stock but not over stock (please correct me if I am wrong). I'd use riparium plants and most likely 'cage' them away from the fish via use of craft mesh and silicone so water passes through but no root nibbling, or possibly diy background with holes to let water pass through. Debating if I'd plant the tank.. if I did it's be larger anubias species.
As for maintenance... I kept a leopard sailfin pleco for over a year (went from under 2" to over 13") then re-homed it to a group with several over 100g tanks and pleco experience. I admittedly got it before knowing how big it got (store sword under 6"). For most of his time here I did daily water changes then every 3 days with aquaponic system (because he ate EVERYTHING plant-wise under water-even anubias and java fern), so I'm use to major maintenance... so much poop x.x
Reading about the fungus eating got me excited that I'd possible had a driftwood cleaner, (really hate that newly submerged driftwood fungus) ans could consider getting large driftwood again, but if they just test nibble everything I may stick to stone/diy. That reminds me I needed to research if goldfish tails are as insanely delicate as betta fins to see if driftwood would be a non fin shredding option.
Good luck with your new goldfish!
I have always wanted a bigger tank myself, i have a 6' 100g sitting in my garage for when i have a house that can support that sorta thing.

I personally believe that goldfish are a species only type of fish. I look forward to seeing how things go with the other species in the tank.
Five goldfish in a 120 is OK, but i think understocking in key in goldfish success. Some (due to genetics) get really big and with raingarden fish that might just happen. I found that with two in a 55g tank that they looked cramped at times. I also had a hard time keeping my nitrates at an acceptable level despite my amount of aquatic and terrestrial plants that i had in the tank.

I love your driftwood i found that my goldfish were too clumsy and would get injured from trying to swim behind my wood and getting stuck. I used a dremmel and softened all the sharp edges before i used it in my tank. I still have that piece of wood, im waiting to put it in my 100g when i have the opportunity.

Oh and sand is the best substrate for goldfish. Goldfish can choke on gravel. Sand is easily digested or spit out. Pool filter sand is the best too. Its large enough grain that it sinks to the bottom quickly after being stirred up, unlike play sand that just floats around in the water column getting sucked into filters and ruining impellers.
Saw you post after posting mine, looks like I might rethink wood and stocking #s (2 instead of 3 fish if I do not do a comet).
Have you (or other goldfish owners) used Black Diamond 'sand' (coal slag) I have 20/40 grit and -60 grit- sand sized and had hoped to clean and re-use it for goldfish. I use it in all my tropical fish tanks.


Less is more when it comes to goldfish stocking. If you find that their size and bioload allows for another then you can always get a new goldie! And that is always exciting!

Wood looks great in tanks, you just need to choose wisely...I am a fan of mopani wood, its heavy and automatically sinks. It can grow fungus but that eventually goes away. i dont like pieces that have sharp edges, clumsy lazy goldfish tend to get hurt on them and if you have a male and a female the male can push the female into the wood and really hurt her while attempting to spawn. You can find mopani in the reptile section of petco and petsmart. I sanded down the edges and points of almost all of my wood so they would not be so sharp. It also usually has a lot of nook and crannies to glue anubias and java fern too aswell.

I have looked into black diamond sand at tractor supply once. I thought it was too fine and sharp but im pretty sure other people have used it. If it comes in a larger/ heavier grain then it will probably work well. The thing is that goldfish forage and pick it up and spit it out. If its too light it will float around in the water and get sucked up by filters and collect or do damage to impellers.
So this means older/larger goldfish won't bully younger/newer/smaller ones like angel fish do?

The sand getting in the filter worries me.. but if I'm keeping the equipment and riparium caged off in the back I should be ok.. might put a foam pre-filter over the intake just in case.. I also have standard size aquarium gravel, this to b e precise (does not look at all like photo btw):

Is this a chocking hazard size for goldfish?


Aqua Aurora,

Three large fancies in a 72 gallon bowfront was about right stocking wise for me; around 20-30 gallons per large fancy goldfish fish is what worked best long term in my tank. To be fair, I didn't get water changes done weekly a lot of the time, due to travel and work obligations, so I needed more "wiggle room" than you likely would, with your excellent tank maintenance. But I am totally with xjasminex regarding less is more with stocking.

Goldfish do like to shoal together, and I haven't tended to keep them long term as singles, 2 comets would be OK in your 55 gallon, imho. I've only had one aggressive goldfish, so aggression isn't usually an issue with goldfish in my experience. However, comets are much faster than fancies, and it's less than ideal to keep the two types together. Fancies, being slower, tend to be somewhat easier on the hardscape.

I have kept driftwood in the goldfish aquarium successfully; the key, in my experience, is not to have anything sharp, pointy or fragile in the tank, wood, rocks, ornaments etc., as they lose scales on this type of tank decor. The more streamlined and rounded pieces of driftwood never gave me an issue with fish injuries, though the goldfish did manage to excavate all the substrate off the slate base and dump a piece over one time. I didn't experience fin damage from decor, but those beautiful flowy fins are prone to fin rot if water quality decreases.

As xjasminex experienced with goldfish getting stuck around driftwood, they can also get stuck behind tank equipment. They are sort of like toddlers, and thinking of how to "fish proof" the hardscape is helpful. Further, if there are caves in your tank, and the goldfish can enter them, getting stuck will likely be a problem, so having an easily deconstructable cave is important (just trust me on this one:). For this reason, and the fact that sometimes plecos try to attach to the sides of large goldfish, and ideal water parameters are very different, in my opinion it is less than ideal to keep plecos in a goldfish tank. Species only always worked best for me.

Goldfish tend to appreciate places they can get out of direct light, so good plant cover and a low light tank is a great environment for them. Fancies also really appreciate low flow; they have a hard time getting food and staying put if there is too much current. Comets can handle higher flow. Goldfish also love to clean tougher plant leaves, and spend a lot of time doing this in a planted tank; they just devour soft leaved stem plants. I have not grown anubias, but if they are tough plants that can be tied to driftwood/rocks like ferns, they would probably be awesome for a goldfish tank.

I haven't used sand as a substrate, but as long as it doesn't cloud the water column when they root around in it, suck it up and spit it out, etc., it should work fine. You don't want it to damage your filter, as xjasminex indicated. My all time best luck with goldfish substrate was actually large smooth pebbles, close to a centimeter probably, as they were too big to be sucked up and get stuck in goldfish mouths; this tank required aggressive gravel vaccumming however, to get detritus. Goldfish do love hard water; some fish keepers blessed with soft water add salt to increase hardness, and report a decrease disease issues. I haven't done this, but I have pH 8ish water with high GH out of the tap. Not sure about your water parameters.

Similarly, I haven't tried a riparium setup, but would really like to try it for nitrate control in the goldfish tank. Alternatively, a heavily planted sump with lots of floaters/emergents would be interesting to try. If you have a male/female pair, do check a sump for babies if you use one though; sumps can be a great fry nursery. I think xjasminex has posted something about doing riparium type filtering in the past.

It seems like we should start a new post; this old one is getting hijacked.
I'd not keep two types, I'd either have 1 single tail goldfish (actually leaning towards shubukin instead of comet now) OR 2 fan tails OR 2 veil tails.

I'll have to look at he driftwood I was thinking about using, it has a twist in it.. might not get to sue it if a goldfish is prone to getting itself stuck.. I know all about sanding wood-keeping betta splendens I am a huge fan of wet-dry sand paper for easy sanding ^^

My tank pH is 7.5, gh 40, kh 80, tds 210-ish if I need harder water I'd consider diy 3d rock background as I've read the cement paint raises hardness even after curing.

I plan to only have a small part of the tank planted with under water plants (maybe the middle or one side) and will only light directly over the tank for that so there should still be plenty of darker areas. The riparium will be caged off and have lighting on it but the amount of plants should diffuse most of the light before it gets to the water.. worst case I put in a lot of sacrificial floaters as snacks/shade.

Flow should be manageable with spay bar or output aimed at nearest wall to reduce flow if I get a double tailed variety.

I've kept ripariums for over a year and a half now, they're wonderful aspect to aquariums, great way to deal with nitrates and a lot of options you can usually get locally at nurseries and home improvement stores (even grocery store sold house plants (half of mine)). I've not kept goldfish yet obviously so I can't say how they've behave with roots in tank... but the plants work great with my non plant munching tropical fish! I have a thread (that I need to update ^^'') with a decent riparium list going, its linked in my signature.
 
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#12 ·
Some house plants are poisonous, just google and find the list. Other than that, rips should work fine.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I have over 18 months of riparium experience, I know which are safe to keep on a riparium and will simply keep roots and leaves out of reach to avoid nibbling.


Goldfish do bully, but it depends on certain factors. When overcrowded goldfish tend to bully, its like living in a small house with many other people, everyone is in your space and you get frustrated. Sometimes spawning behavior looks like bullying. Females can get pretty beat up and even die in a worse case scenario. Thats why its good to have less males and more females, or all females or all males. But younger fish are hard to sex sometimes and there are only a handful of distinguishing features to tell them apart like breeding stars, and whether they have an inny vent or an outey vent. Sometimes body shape can help too, females tend to be larger bodied, like rounder. Males are skinnier usually unless you have fat goldfish =]

I have been using sand for years now and have no problems with my filters. Sometimes when i dump the canister (which is not often) i find some sand in the bottom but not alot. Its actually one of the best substrates for goldfish. They can forage all they want and dont get hurt or hurt anything. With sand all the fish waste sits on top, unlike gravel or river rocks where wastes settle down into the substrate.

Im at a loss for what species i would want next myself...I love the thought of a shubunkin or other long flowing single tail but i also love my fantails/ veiltails...I also love ranchus and their chubby egg bodies and cute faces. And i think celestials are out of this world!

Your water sounds fine. You can use crushed corral for buffer it up or baking soda. I started using wonder shells, not that they raise your PH or Gh/KH they provide other minerals. There is nothing scientific to prove anything about them but i have seem increased fish health with their use.

Water flow isnt to much of an issue. Smaller goldfish will have a problem because of their size. In my fifty five tank with two large fantails i had two 500gph circulation pumps going at each end along with the flow from my canisters. They had no problems at all.

Id plant as much of the tank as possible. I find that if i buy smaller plants and hope they grow larger they never did for me, my fish beat them up and they were sad. But buying larger versions gave me better results. The more plants you plant the better. Its possible to overwhelm your fish with plants and they wont bother them as much plus more plants means when they do get beat up its being distributed amoungst lots of plants and not a few.

They will probably nibble at the roots of the rip plants....Or they might not...hard to say depends on the fish and diet like i stated before. Goldfish are natural scavengers so they tend to pick at most anything =]

i did just watch a video from solid gold where she put repashy on a rock and placed it in the tank. My mind was a little bit blown, lol. It was perfect for how goldfish naturally eat.
Pun bold-ed ^^ Thank you for the extra information!

Just food for thought, in a 55 gallon, I'd go with the slower, fancier goldfish over the pond breeds. For me, I found a 55 to be too short (length-wise) for the pond breeds (comet, sarasa, shubunkin) once they grew past the 6" mark. Plus, once they're mature and breeding season starts up, the chase gets very energetic and violent. Life was much less stressful (for me!) after moving them into a 100 gallon. Whoever said goldfish were sedate never saw a horny comet.

I never had luck keeping plants alive in the same tank as goldfish. It was basically a glorified, all-you-can-eat salad buffet for them, and anything that wasn't eaten was eventually "tasted" to death. I've kept them on sand and gravel; pea gravel was my favorite. My goldies tended to sift through the substrate and mouth the pebbles a lot. Too small or too large a substrate runs the risk of gut impaction. Plenty of fiber/veggies helps to reduce that.

Personally, I would raise the GH/TDS for the fancies especially as they get bigger, but that's only my opinion. Goldfish were one of the few species I would use salt on (lightly, ~1ppt).

Best of luck!
Got a laugh out or your honey comet comment ^^ Thank you for the input

Its is sad. Its hard to be an advocate without coming off as a major weirdo, lol.
They get really put down on this site too. Ive seen people post about doing a tank with them and some people have flat out told them not to and there is still alot of mis-info here too.

People get real defensive about their fish keeping too. Sometimes when trying to better educate people they just dont want to hear it.

Hey Aqua Aurora, I just updated my thread. Pics are included.

=]
I can understand that, for me I'm a huge betta splenden advocate but -like goldfish- people assume they can be kept in improper care (less than 1g, unheated, unfiltered) and don't think they're all that great (because they're cold and miserable). Also woot I'll check out your thread later ^^
 
#3 ·
Goldfish do bully, but it depends on certain factors. When overcrowded goldfish tend to bully, its like living in a small house with many other people, everyone is in your space and you get frustrated. Sometimes spawning behavior looks like bullying. Females can get pretty beat up and even die in a worse case scenario. Thats why its good to have less males and more females, or all females or all males. But younger fish are hard to sex sometimes and there are only a handful of distinguishing features to tell them apart like breeding stars, and whether they have an inny vent or an outey vent. Sometimes body shape can help too, females tend to be larger bodied, like rounder. Males are skinnier usually unless you have fat goldfish =]

I have been using sand for years now and have no problems with my filters. Sometimes when i dump the canister (which is not often) i find some sand in the bottom but not alot. Its actually one of the best substrates for goldfish. They can forage all they want and dont get hurt or hurt anything. With sand all the fish waste sits on top, unlike gravel or river rocks where wastes settle down into the substrate.

Im at a loss for what species i would want next myself...I love the thought of a shubunkin or other long flowing single tail but i also love my fantails/ veiltails...I also love ranchus and their chubby egg bodies and cute faces. And i think celestials are out of this world!

Your water sounds fine. You can use crushed corral for buffer it up or baking soda. I started using wonder shells, not that they raise your PH or Gh/KH they provide other minerals. There is nothing scientific to prove anything about them but i have seem increased fish health with their use.

Water flow isnt to much of an issue. Smaller goldfish will have a problem because of their size. In my fifty five tank with two large fantails i had two 500gph circulation pumps going at each end along with the flow from my canisters. They had no problems at all.

Id plant as much of the tank as possible. I find that if i buy smaller plants and hope they grow larger they never did for me, my fish beat them up and they were sad. But buying larger versions gave me better results. The more plants you plant the better. Its possible to overwhelm your fish with plants and they wont bother them as much plus more plants means when they do get beat up its being distributed amoungst lots of plants and not a few.

They will probably nibble at the roots of the rip plants....Or they might not...hard to say depends on the fish and diet like i stated before. Goldfish are natural scavengers so they tend to pick at most anything =]

i did just watch a video from solid gold where she put repashy on a rock and placed it in the tank. My mind was a little bit blown, lol. It was perfect for how goldfish naturally eat.
 
#4 ·
Just food for thought, in a 55 gallon, I'd go with the slower, fancier goldfish over the pond breeds. For me, I found a 55 to be too short (length-wise) for the pond breeds (comet, sarasa, shubunkin) once they grew past the 6" mark. Plus, once they're mature and breeding season starts up, the chase gets very energetic and violent. Life was much less stressful (for me!) after moving them into a 100 gallon. Whoever said goldfish were sedate never saw a horny comet.

I never had luck keeping plants alive in the same tank as goldfish. It was basically a glorified, all-you-can-eat salad buffet for them, and anything that wasn't eaten was eventually "tasted" to death. I've kept them on sand and gravel; pea gravel was my favorite. My goldies tended to sift through the substrate and mouth the pebbles a lot. Too small or too large a substrate runs the risk of gut impaction. Plenty of fiber/veggies helps to reduce that.

Personally, I would raise the GH/TDS for the fancies especially as they get bigger, but that's only my opinion. Goldfish were one of the few species I would use salt on (lightly, ~1ppt).

Best of luck!
 
#5 ·
Just wanted to give my input, as I attempted to do exactly what you are doing. I had incredible difficulty getting my plants to grow in my goldfish tank. 2 Shubunkins, and 2 Fan Tails.

I started with some Jungle Val. No matter how quickly it grew, it was not save from my goldfish. They would literally just cut the blades of Val in half. Eventually they just started ripping it up from the roots. I tried tying it out, weighing it down, etc.

I've since just pulled the plants and substrate. My goldfish tank is now a huge bin in the garage, where I can run powerful filters and air pumps to give the fish as clean water as possible, while cutting down on the noise in the house. I don't have a substrate to make it easy to clean up. I have a bunch of fake plants in there to keep them occupied.

Honestly my goldfish were a bit tricky to keep in the tank, while making sure their needs are met. They are still young, but I had trouble keeping up with the waste even with a sponge filter and HOB filter.

Just my two cents.
 
#6 ·
we had "feeder" goldfish for years they started in a 5gal & eventually ended up in a 30gal. After 5 years we had to rehome them b/c I didn't have room upstairs for a bigger tank for them & I said if I was ever getting a bigger tank it would be salt water.
As everyone else has said Do Not plant a goldfish tank. While I love goldfish personality & feel they are the clownfish of the fw side, they are disgusting pigs. With that fact go minimal decorations (less for you to clean) b/c you will be doing 50% water changes, cyphoning the gravel & scrubbing anything decorative atleast once a month. Also over filter the tank, Go the biggest you can afford.
here were my goobers
 

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#8 ·
Why only fifty percent water changes?

I did as much as possible every 5 or so days. Probably was around 80-85%. Goldfish are pretty hardy fish which is why people think they can live in bowls or too small tanks. They are hardy enough to survive in those conditions so people think its ok to keep them that way (then wonder why they die....). I honestly have had friends comment to me that they thought they only lived for a year or so normally when i have told them mine are probably older than seven years.
 
#9 ·
I suppose 80% would be fine, I just preferred to change less water more frequently.

I remember as a child, I had a small 5 gallon tank with 3 goldfish, a plecostomus and neon tetras. A lot of people are massively uninformed about goldfish, and its sad to see the abuse that goes on, even inadvertantly.
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
Its is sad. Its hard to be an advocate without coming off as a major weirdo, lol.
They get really put down on this site too. Ive seen people post about doing a tank with them and some people have flat out told them not to and there is still alot of mis-info here too.

People get real defensive about their fish keeping too. Sometimes when trying to better educate people they just dont want to hear it.

Hey Aqua Aurora, I just updated my thread. Pics are included.

=]
 
#11 ·
Right now I only have one Ryukin in my outside nursery tank but I kept a large goldfish aquarium indoors for many years with great success. I always did 2 50% water changes and kept 3 large fancy fish in a 75 gal. Sometimes I would have 2 smaller ones in with them for growout before putting them outside so a bird wouldn't snatch them. I would recommend sparse java fern if you want plants with them and hardscape with low river rock to keep lots of open space. With big fish they should be the focus rather than the aquascape in my opinion.
 
#13 ·
I yell at people all the time about their "keeping habits" towards betta's & goldfish. it makes me so mad, fish aren't disposable they are pets (ok some are feeders for other pets) but that's the circle of life!
 
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#14 ·
Sadly, I have been guilty of keeping 2 fantail goldfish in a 10g, that got a wc every 3 months. They lived for 7 years though. I also have kept a betta in a vase that was far too small. I regret doing that. But I was 5 and now I know, the best we can do is educate people, some may remain ignorant, but some will learn
 
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