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Humanely getting rid of fish - death by ambush predator?

5K views 21 replies 12 participants last post by  WickedOdie 
#1 ·
Okay, here is the story: I got a bunch of platy females, and at least one must have been pregnant, and since then - plop, plop, plop. I need to get rid of them, and ideally I'd also get rid of the adults.

I don't want to take them back to the store because it would just continue there. Plus, let's face it, life in a platy tank even at a good LFS is not fun. And if they get survive the stress of being caught, transported, and put in the store tank...the average platy buyer is a terrible fish keeper...

So I was wondering if adding an ambush predator would be a good idea. Something that doesn't freak the other fish out but takes them one by one. I was thinking of an African leaf fish, but those need warmer temperatures than I can offer. Are there other suitable species?

By the way, I am familiar with clove oil and other more or less humane methods of killing fish. But I have a very heavily planted tank, and trying to catch all the fish would cause an insane amount of stress, and I wouldn't probably catch all of them.
 
#2 ·
Any kind of cichlid would demolish the population of babies, angels will eat them if small enough, Kribensis will if they are hungry enough. Gouramis, pretty much any omnivore that can eath them, will eat them
 
#3 ·
I have an ancient pearl gourami in there, but he doesn't even try to catch the little guys. ;) Cichlids would be great - in fact I am planning to stock a pair of sunfish soon, but I'd prefer something more subtle. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I'd like those platies not to be freaked out 24/7 until they get taken.

Just came across this page: Pocket-sized Pikes | Details | Articles | TFH Magazine® A small pike-type fish would be great. Are there any Florida gars that stay small? That would also go wonderfully with the sunfish later.
 
#4 ·
In my opinion, you are way overthinking the effort. There is no "humane" way to kill something that has a mind larger than a BB. Anything that thinks as much as a fish will know that he is in danger any time he spots something out of the normal. Worry about humane is nice but not really practical. Even a cow knows they are in danger when you take them to slaughter.
Quick is as close to humane as it gets so your job is really just figuring out how.
 
#6 ·
Probably. I might give the fish traps Bishkill mentions a shot. In my experience, major capturing event in large tanks are just a huge mess and terrible for the fish. In the past, I had neons die just from being transferred to a bucket for a few hours and back into the tank. Same water obviously. That's the kind of stress I would like to avoid.

Do a little digging for DIY fish traps. I would be more inclined to take them to the LFS. You may be too quick to judge the average platy keeper and although I agree stores can be horrible it's not universal. I haven't owned one in several decades and there was an auction on Aquabid for a trio a few weeks ago that I missed out on and I'm still kicking myself about it. Buy a predator because you want the fish rather than what it can do to fix a problem.
I live five minutes from an amazing LFS. One of the best I have seen. And yet - the vast majority of customers I see around the live bearer tanks are "One of these, and one of these, and can we get one of the neons, mommy?" kind. You could argue that these horrific fish keepers may be tomorrow's leading ichthyologists, but probably not. ;)

The other thing is that the adult platies would just continue to have babies at the LFS, so it would not actually solve the problem. I will take the remaining tetras that I have or somehow keep them around. That's a bit of a different story.
 
#5 ·
Do a little digging for DIY fish traps. I would be more inclined to take them to the LFS. You may be too quick to judge the average platy keeper and although I agree stores can be horrible it's not universal. I haven't owned one in several decades and there was an auction on Aquabid for a trio a few weeks ago that I missed out on and I'm still kicking myself about it. Buy a predator because you want the fish rather than what it can do to fix a problem.
 
#8 ·
Predator: Keep it. Next tank setup is going to be a sunfish tank. There is also the option of just pruning down hiding spaces and adding sunfish right away. They won't eat the adult platies, but they will eat the fry. Platies don't live very long, so the population would just die out.

But I think I'll give the trap a shot. I just used a basic bottle trap to catch a shrimp that decided to go rogue on some corals. I would assume the same basic principle (cut bottle invert part with opening, add food, position strategically) works for fish too?
 
#9 ·
Hypothetically...If you take the predictor route.. what do you do once it eats everyone? Return it to the store? Start buying feeder fish? Its better to just catch and kill them yourself if you're not inclined on taking them to a lfs. But thats just my opinion.
 
#13 ·
There are plenty of predators that also happily take frozen food, so that wouldn't be an issue. But yeah, I definitely wouldn't want to end up with one that only accept live fish.

Why not just let the platys live in your tank? Obviously you wanted at least some platys....now you have more. If you dont want them anymore, then the humane thing to do would be getting them all out of your tank and into the hands of someone who does want them. While nature dictates that certain fish might be eaten by other fish, that doesn't make it "humane" to turn platys into fishfood. The LFS likely has lots of customers who would want them; and whether or not they're fully knowledgeable about the requirements of keeping all fish they're likely to try and they might even learn a thing or two along the way. We all had to start somewhere and I'd bet platys were in many of our tanks at some point early on.

I think you've got to decide if you just dont want these fish or if you're concerned about them being treated humanely.
Right, good point. The problem is that I signed up for six platies originally. If the LFS/breeder had done their job, the females would have been separated from the means before reaching sexual maturity (I know that's not always easy with platies). If I return these fish to the LFS now, I am just passing on the problem to someone else. Once inseminated, a female platy can keep giving birth for quite a while. But otherwise, I agree with you. The most humane strategy would probably be to keep the fish but make sure no juveniles survive.
 
#10 ·
The fishtrap as described will likely do the job. One point that's missed sometimes is that the trap need air/water flow through to avoid killing what is caught in the stagnant water inside. Which brings me back around to the humane question. Does a fish caught in a trap and assuming he will be eaten at any minute, suffer less than a fish who is caught in a net and assumes he is going to die at any minute? We scare the fish so many times and call it necessary, that I no longer see much difference in the humane question if we just go ahead and end the scary stuff with a good solid whack.
If I were captured by ISIS, I would think it better to be shot right away rather than dragging around scared silly for weeks and then be killed.
A decision we all have to make, but just my spin on a question with no answer.
 
#15 ·
The fishtrap as described will likely do the job. One point that's missed sometimes is that the trap need air/water flow through to avoid killing what is caught in the stagnant water inside. Which brings me back around to the humane question. Does a fish caught in a trap and assuming he will be eaten at any minute, suffer less than a fish who is caught in a net and assumes he is going to die at any minute? We scare the fish so many times and call it necessary, that I no longer see much difference in the humane question if we just go ahead and end the scary stuff with a good solid whack.
I agree. That's why I thought a predator of the ambushing kind (not one that cruises through the tank like a bully at a national chess club meeting) might be gentler than trying to catch and kill the platies. But I don't even know if real ambush predation would work in the confined space of a tank.

I think this thread may going a little off-point for the IP, but I just have to push it off-course just a little bit more. I think your point about the little one begging his mom for this and that may be a little short-sighted. Humane? Probably not, but I would bet that lots of us with tanks, large and small, one and many, at some point resembled that little one tugging at Mom to buy the pretty one.
Yeah, wow...that's a complex topic. I've actually been tempted to start a topic about it a few times, but the mods on this board don't like controversial topics, so it would probably get shut down quickly.

I used to think that the knowledge and appreciation we gain from keeping fish is worth the damage we do. I am not so sure about that anymore. People are terrible at keeping fish alive, and even those of us who become more than casual fish keepers...how many losses for each one fish that makes it into our tanks? A dozen? Many dozens? Plus, there seem to be a shocking number of people who have fantastic aquariums and still seem to have zero appreciation for how vulnerable our ecosystems are and how precious every single species.

I'm not actually saying our hobby does more bad than good. I'm just not sure of the opposite as I used to be. I am carefully optimistic though. I love it when I see kids on this and other boards taking the step from casual tank owner to real hobbyists. That's pretty awesome.

Bump:
Siphon out the fry? Then flush them? I have some guppies that i got from a friend that has 100's because they just dont stop breeding, try to get rid of some, give them to friends. My friend has to scoop 40-50 of the fry out and just kills them in clove oil because he has so many.
I don't flush any fish. Clove oil is better, but I'd rather eliminate the actual problem then keep killing masses of fry. Sounds like your friend has a worse problem than I, though.
 
#11 ·
Why not just let the platys live in your tank? Obviously you wanted at least some platys....now you have more. If you dont want them anymore, then the humane thing to do would be getting them all out of your tank and into the hands of someone who does want them. While nature dictates that certain fish might be eaten by other fish, that doesn't make it "humane" to turn platys into fishfood. The LFS likely has lots of customers who would want them; and whether or not they're fully knowledgeable about the requirements of keeping all fish they're likely to try and they might even learn a thing or two along the way. We all had to start somewhere and I'd bet platys were in many of our tanks at some point early on.

I think you've got to decide if you just dont want these fish or if you're concerned about them being treated humanely.
 
#12 ·
I think this thread may going a little off-point for the IP, but I just have to push it off-course just a little bit more. I think your point about the little one begging his mom for this and that may be a little short-sighted. Humane? Probably not, but I would bet that lots of us with tanks, large and small, one and many, at some point resembled that little one tugging at Mom to buy the pretty one.
 
#14 ·
Siphon out the fry? Then flush them? I have some guppies that i got from a friend that has 100's because they just dont stop breeding, try to get rid of some, give them to friends. My friend has to scoop 40-50 of the fry out and just kills them in clove oil because he has so many.
 
#16 ·
Didnt read over the whole thread, but why not just keep only males or only females so no more breeding issues for you?

Sure they will breed for someone else, but they might actually want the babies.

A predator in a tank of a rather small body of water (compared to the wild where the fish actually have more of a chance of surviving) will cause stress on the fish.

Catching fish even in a heavily planted tank really isnt that difficut and so it doesnt have to stress them out. But of course it depends on the skill of the person trying to catch them. Work on your techniques. Keep a net in a more open area, and use your free hand to herd/corral the fish toward the open area where the net is. Any motion by you in the tank should be rather slow and gentle to not panic the fish. If you have to, leave the net in the tank for some time so the fish arent so scared of it and if necessary, take breaks only catching a few fish at a time if you are stressing them out too much. A large net for just a few bucks can help a lot.
 
#17 ·
Didnt read over the whole thread, but why not just keep only males or only females so no more breeding issues for you?
Did you at least read the first post? ;)

Sure they will breed for someone else, but they might actually want the babies.
Trying to give away life bearers may work a few times, but that's it. They just breed too quickly under the right circumstances. Not an option unfortunately.

A predator in a tank of a rather small body of water (compared to the wild where the fish actually have more of a chance of surviving) will cause stress on the fish.
Yeah, I've come to the same conclusion after the discussion in this thread. I'll trap or go with something that eats the juveniles and let the population die out.

Catching fish even in a heavily planted tank really isnt that difficut and so it doesnt have to stress them out. But of course it depends on the skill of the person trying to catch them. Work on your techniques. Keep a net in a more open area, and use your free hand to herd/corral the fish toward the open area where the net is. Any motion by you in the tank should be rather slow and gentle to not panic the fish. If you have to, leave the net in the tank for some time so the fish arent so scared of it and if necessary, take breaks only catching a few fish at a time if you are stressing them out too much. A large net for just a few bucks can help a lot.
Then you must be vastly more skilled than me. I had my first tank over 20 years ago, and in my experience, catching fish is difficult. Platies a little less so, but platy fry a little more so because you have to find it to catch it.
 
#19 ·
After reading through the thread:

I'm glad that you're concerned with being humane to your fish, but I agree that you might be overthinking it. The idea of a platy expressing or feeling emotions is a stretch on its own, and going as far as choosing a specific type of predator that will provide the least "pain" to the fish seems unnecessary to me. But maybe I'm just being cynical.

Also remember that your female platies are just like any female platies: pregnant. Taking them back to the store does mean that whoever buys them will get flooded with babies eventually, but wouldn't they if they bought any other platies?

Also, keep in mind that returning your platies to the store does not mean that the store will sell any more platies than it would otherwise. If you do return/sell/donate them, the store will just order less in the future.

To be completely honest, unless I misunderstood something, it seems as though returning the platies to the store--so that the store buys less from the wholesaler, who in turn breeds less--will result in less fish death than killing the fish in the first place.

That being said, if you planned on feeding your sunfish live fish anyway, then you may decide to just keep the fish and use them as food. If you do so, you will have the guarantee that they won't have disease (many feeder fish do) and it will save you some trouble.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#20 ·
I think you are not only over thinking it but approaching it from a moral standpoint rather than one if humaneness. In reality, both morally and humanely, NONE of us should be keeping fish, they are wild animals - even domesticated species like Betta splendens, Poecilla reticulata, GloFish. They are such simple animals(as a blanket statement) they really don't know the wild versus the glass/plastic/acrylic boxes we choose to keep them in. Sure, they react differently to enriched environments(planted, appropriately adorned, and well maintained). What it boils down to is the level of responsibility YOU(anyone who decides to keep wild animals) take as their steward. This includes not only creating an "ideal" environment but familiarizing yourself with the habits of the animal. Like you said, it's hard if not impossible for livebears to NOT get pregnant eventually EVEN in a strictly gender controlled environment(sex changes in gender biased populations is common in nature). What were you expecting when you bought them? My suggestion: 1) trade the adults or, fry to LFS at least you will get store credit, right? 2) keep them as your own feeders: free, healthy food! 3) quickly kill them or, 4) selectively breed them! Not the only options just what I see as good solutions.
 
#21 ·
May I ask how big your tank is? Whatever route u choose ur tank size and other stats are important. That will depend on the efficiency of each tacts. Also, about humaneness-if u keep fish u must try to be humane-honestly, tanks are kinda inhumane-they dont give the space an active fish must have-but lets try to keep it nice as possible. Killing fish because u dont want them is not an option. So stick with he fish u have if u cant remove them. If the population grows to an unkeepable state, sell them/give them away to a responsible owner/seller that u know. As for the predator, it is natural to have a predator-in the wild-but not in a closed ecosystem. This is because a predator's presence will harass the prey-and constant harrassment is basically inhumane. If u remove some at a time to feed to a seperated quick killing predator, that will be more humane. So, I recommend capture and sell, or capture and kill(quickly and unpainfully), and NOT a predator. Or like HDBenson siad, keep it as a feeder farm if u have predatory fish.
 
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