UPDATE: IT'S FISH TB. ...Help me diagnose this disease that's killing my fish - Page 8 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #106 of 109 (permalink) Old 01-25-2013, 07:57 PM
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I just finished going through this thread again and all related links today.
Some of the research papers I posted in my post above duplicate some you had already found.

On the bleach testing mentioned it was brand specific.
Cleaning methods with bleach at normally considered ratios won't kill all myco strains. The 10% once reported effective is now considered wrong. Tested bleach washes strong enough to kill myco was also strong enough to damage tank sealants. Clorox Ultra was tested as only 'moderately' effective (50,000mg/L) with >20 minutes nessary to eliminate growth. But bleach is still part of it. Bleach will clear the biofilm to help expose the bacteria. H2O2 above 3% can also be effective for that part. But it's the wash of 50-70% alcohol that Doc say's kill it. Alcohol was effective within 1 minute so a spray bottle will work for surface cleaning rather than a soak. (Journal of Aquatic Animal Health 2005)

Glutaraldehyde activates effectively in alkaline solutions. Effective on myco at 2% and above I believe (but need to verify by the paper I have at home). Excel strength is reported to test out as 1.5% in two posted lab tests I've been able to find.

Wet heat will work according to the Doc I'm following advice from.
Thinking turkey fryer and 30 minute boil to raise large wood cores, gravels, Flourite etc. completely to temperature. Even new soils will be boiled or baked here.

For dry heat 350F is what was approved in query.

3-5 individuals from all fish orders received going forward will be sacrificed in the name of safety before the rest leave my entry quarantine tanks.

Yeah you guess correctly,,, a 'friend' brought myco into my entry tanks and I have been evaluating cross contamination potentials for the last month.

LMAO! I just realized this is my first forum post declaring I have myco positive fish. Those that have PM'ed for plants and fish and haven't received any answer now know why. I won't share crap like this. Like Shawn I'm figuring how far it has gotten and I slammed the door shut on the mailman in December.
Those that received critters prior to that from me they were clear of it and I'm certain of that.

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If at first you don't succeed,,, keep kicking it
2-75g planted, 5-55g planted, 5-20g planted, 110g w/30g sump, 8-10g, Refugium, doghouse/newbie
2012 update adding table top pleco pans & a 90g (Nutz)
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post #107 of 109 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 02:29 AM
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Thank you wkndracer for this update.
Now back to read those links!
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post #108 of 109 (permalink) Old 07-03-2013, 03:04 PM
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Shawn and I exchanged posts in another thread on this topic recently and using heat to kill myco (the temperature needed) was one of the things briefly talked about. Locating open source (allowed for copy or link) isn't easy.

Here's one open source lab study protocol excerpt quoted here with the ref. link.
This is regarding water boiling (212F) Deactivating = kill.
I have compiled a number of PDF documents and web links to lab and medical study regarding viable temperature range for a large number of myco strains. Reading several of them at once will send my brain into a spin LOL

"For procedures that do not require intact, high quality DNA such as PCR testing, our laboratory depends on the much more expedient lysate method of boiling culture at 100C for 10 minutes, followed by mechanical lysis for 2 minutes to release DNA. Although crude, this procedure is adequate for our PCR testing needs, has been shown to completely destroy live organism in our laboratory, and is consistent with other studies [7,8]. The study by Zwadyk et al. concluded that inactivating mycobacteria by heat lysing at a temperature of 100C for 30 minutes did not inhibit its ability to be amplified by PCR or strand displacement amplification [8]. Furthermore, this study has shown that inoculating the boiled lysate alone without mechanical lysis was adequate in rendering the sample non-viable.

The viability testing of the two methods outlined above for DNA extractions were performed by various technicians who routinely follow these procedures, lending interpersonal variability to the study. It was demonstrated that the small nuances to procedure, such as the varying density of culture used, did not affect the method employed to deactivate the organism."

Research article tittle:
Viability testing of material derived from Mycobacterium tuberculosis prior to removal from a Containment Level-III Laboratory as part of a Laboratory Risk Assessment Program

The Fraternity of Dirt
If at first you don't succeed,,, keep kicking it
2-75g planted, 5-55g planted, 5-20g planted, 110g w/30g sump, 8-10g, Refugium, doghouse/newbie
2012 update adding table top pleco pans & a 90g (Nutz)

Last edited by wkndracer; 07-03-2013 at 03:25 PM. Reason: *
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post #109 of 109 (permalink) Old 07-14-2013, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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Wnkracer, what are the latest thoughts on the idea of using "sentinel" fish as part of a quarantine protocol to help screen new arrivals for Myco?

If memory serves, I first saw the idea proposed by Walstad in one of the articles I read during my initial research (although I'm afraid I've forgotten which one and am not even positive it was Walstad). The idea was to keep a population of Zebra Danios (which I seem to recall are especially susceptible to Myco, potentially even more so than Rainbowfish) in quarantine for an extended period of time (6+ months) to ensure they are healthy, move them into a non-quarantine system like a display tank, and then move a couple of them back into your quarantine tank each time you have a new arrival.

You'd still have to keep the new arrival in quarantine with the Zebras for a long time (I'd guess a minimum of 45-60 days), but their higher susceptibility would theoretically allow you to be more confident of the new arrival's health at the end of that time.

My main tank is still not up and running again and will likely be a while (I'm hoping to get a more detailed update posted before too much longer), so I was thinking that now might be a good time to get the Zebras and put them in the initial quarantine if that's still considered a helpful precaution.

Have you seen anything in the more recent literature that references this concept?
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