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Ich...when am I in the clear?

14K views 17 replies 5 participants last post by  joebob296 
#1 ·
It's been a rough 2 days! Tank is about 7 weeks running. Acara pair spawned over a week ago. I noticed a few days ago that the number of fry were diminishing but they were also moving around more. I suspected one of the syno cats. While the parents turned kujo on anything that came near the fry, they were very passive with the cats. And I observed the cats hanging out quietly in the fry area...no doubt picking off the more adventurous fry when they came too close. Around the same time, I noticed that my newest acara had some 'damage' to his fins. I'd observed just a couple spots before and assumed it was from shipping or from being chased by the other acara; he was regularly targeted by the parents for venturing too close. When he developed additional white spots elsewhere, my stomach turned. That tank I had for years as a teen where I did everything wrong (no internet back then!) and nothing died? Well, I lost all but one fish when I didn't have heat in my condo for 2 months (Oct and Nov) and all the fish got ich. I'm all too familiar with it and how quickly it spreads. I checked my other fish and most of the other acara had already developed white spots. Ugh. I'm not into meds for ich as I've heard of too many accounts of entire tanks being killed. But my one acara was covered and the others already had it on their fins. So I went online 2 nights ago and discovered...garlic :D I threw in 5 huge cloves and minced up another and fed it to them. I spent the last 2 days jacking up the heat to 86 degrees as well....mincing up garlic for one feeding and soaking their food in minced garlic the rest of the time. Yesterday, I siphoned the entire bottom and did a PWC as well. Of course, the filter went while I was mid-siphon and since my husband was away chaperoning a DECA trip in AC, I had the inconvenient task of pulling apart the canister and replacing the impeller...and then getting the darn thing started again. There's a reason the previous owner lost all his fish and gave me his tank. I suspect it's the canister; it's been a problem from day 1. Anyhoo...with the bottom siphoned and PWC done, I added Purification and Lemon essential oils to the tank. I know...seems so unconventional but for those embracing quackery, they work ;) Today, I removed all old garlic and added fresh garlic, fed more minced, siphoned bottom again, did another PWC and added more EOs. So far, the majority of the acara have lost most signs of ich except for an occassional spot on the tail fin here or there. The rest of the tank has not developed symptoms and the sickest of the acara looks much better. His head had quite a bit of white but now looks much clearer. Though his fins still have enough to keep me nervous. Despite the outbreak and some intial off behaviour a couple days ago, all fish are now swimming normally and eating great. But I know I'm not out of the woods yet. Hoping all symptoms disappear in the next day or 2 because this siphoning/PWCs for a 120 gallon in the attic with no water supply remotely close....not fun. How long after symptoms disappear do I need to keep temp at 86? Garlic in the tank? Siphon bottom daily? Want to make sure I kick the ich but also want my life back! LOL
 
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#2 ·
Sorry, Life does not Safely return to normal for 10-days for me. Have you read up on the three stages of life for ich? the one you see is just the easy one. There are more at all time, some on the bottom as the reason for siphon to help clear them. But there are those who are free in the water looking for a host as well as those on the fish. Some of those on the fish will be in places like gill covers where you can't see them!!
So the choices are these inf my view. You can struggle on until safe or you can back off as tired. In the first you get worn down and that is bad but in the second you get to start all over and that is double BAD!
Prevention is definitely the way to go but at this point you are pretty well stuck.
But I also would suggest changing up. Your choice , of course but the garlic sounds like a bad idea. One is what the garlic does to the water quality. I use it with sick fish as it will get them to eat but I would not want it in my water full time. I much prefer the more common combo of salt to help kill the ich and heat to speed up their life cycle. It requires far less work than 50% water changes.
Major point might be a warning not to believe much of what you can read.
 
#4 · (Edited by Moderator)
Aw, PlantedRich...thank you! I guess I'm in it for the long haul. Lucky my husband is even letting me have this tank so a quarantine tank for new fishies isn't something I can ask for. Yet. Certain it came with the new fish. As for the salt...it scares me. That's why I opted for the garlic. I'm into the greener way of life....got so sick of my 3 kids being sick all the time from school and church and parties a few years ago. It was constant despite our efforts to eat clean and organic, remove fluoride from water, get sunshine and exercise and sleep, etc. And then I got into EOs and holistic remedies (including garlic!) and like a switch, my kids didn't get sick. Not a cold in over 2 years until I got lazy and stopped oiling them up. They did get a stomach bug here or there...maybe once a year...but generally kick them in 1/2 day to a couple days while their friends suffer for days on end. I don't understand it but there's something to it. I trust it. And the fish seem to like it. Whereas salt...ouch. Isn't that uncomfortable for them? I've been checking my water levels and they remain consistent despite the garlic and such. So far. I haven't tested yet today. If I were to embark on the salt/heat combo, what do you recommend for a 120 gallon...how much salt? How many days? How long do I maintain the heat?

10 days at high temp.
Nordic...so reardless of whether I use garlic, salt, or meds...10 days at high temp should put me in the clear? Crossing my fingers.... :)
 
#5 ·
I think you should be able to find the table of google. There is basically a set amount of time for the lifespan depending on temperature.
I'm sure there are always outliers, but for the most part you should be OK be then. So 10 days free of visible ich. This does not mean it is a good idea to give fish from such a system to a friend after 10 days.
I'd keep an eye on it for a good few weeks first.
 
#6 ·
Not planning on giving any of my fish away any time soon <3 Even if I am successful with another batch of fry, I'll keep them in a separate tank until they have some size so they'll basically be quarantined for months and I can keep an eye on them. And if my fish guy sells them, well, they'll only go back to the store I got the ich fish from. Not certain I want to get another fish from there for a bit. Not his fault...the sick fish had just arrived the day before I bought it...but it was in his tank :( All my other fish from him have been really healthy and looked great...better than the same fish in more local LFSs. That's why I drive farther to buy from him. Well, what's done is done and if nothing else, I've been given a crash course in levels, buffering, spawning, replacing faulty cannister parts, and now ich. Quite a lot to learn in a 6ish week period but valuable none-the-less. Thanks for your input! :x
 
#8 ·
If he sold you fish he didn't quarantine it is his fault. Also, no one forces him to buy stock sight unseen.
I think garlic should only be used as an appetite stimulant when it comes to fish. And only used when fish go off their food.
 
#11 ·
I understand...I must not have clarified correctly. I planned to do what I'm doing (since the fish appear happy) until symptoms disappear. Then I aimed to treat with salt/heat for 10 days. Though most of the white is now gone...so I might just start with the salt today and add the necessary day or so to ensure there's a 10 day stretch after the last symptom. Still worried that all that heat and salt will destroy my plants and stress the fish but I do prefer it over meds so here goes....
 
#14 ·
Hi, Nordic. I started to add the salt but my gourami seemed stressed. And since they weren't displaying symptoms, I stopped adding salt. I added 1 TBSP over the course of an hour in diluted water for 4 hrs before ceasing. The heat didn't seem to bother them up until that point so it seemed the way to go. But this morning, I found my one dwarf gourami dead :'( He's been a little more lethargic and both have been hanging out at the top more with the heat but I expected that. I've got a bubbler going and I have the spray from the return really high so that there are a lot of bubbles in one area of the tank without robbing the gourami of a quiet area on the other. I thought it was working but now he's dead :( On the plus side, the rest of the fish look great. So possibly one of those correlation/causation situations. He is a dwarf gourami and the possibility of losing any to that virus wiping them out is always present. Most of the LFS in the area can't even get them due to low supply. At least that's what I've read is the reason. Supposely large numbers are wiped out regularly. So far, the other DG is still swimming/eating great. I stopped feeding garlic after their morning feeding yesterday since it seemed as though almost all of the white spots had dropped off most of the fish. The sickest acara still has a few which means I'm going to have to keep up the elevated temp for another 10 days starting tomorrow. Worried my other gourami can't handle the temps but saw how even a little salt stressed him...so that's not an option. I hate this. All my fish have names...the koi in our ponds, the fish in my daughter's 10G and all the fish in my tank. So when I lose one, it's not just a fish. Guess I need to find another Bolt...he actually had a lightning bolt marking on one side :( Now Hurley is all alone. I'll be lucky to find another dwarf gourami; let alone another neon blue....

Bump:
Just a curious question. At what temperature will all forms of ich die instantly at? 100 F? 150F? 175F?

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Iwondered the same. Though with a planted tank, removing the fish and raising the temps isn't an option...I still need to treat the plants. And then I worry about the silicone...would raised temps even for a brief period degrade the integrity of the material and compromise the bond. I've heard too many stories of leaking/exploding aquariums. Not sure I want to risk something like that. It's my fault for not utilizing a quarantine. I know better. But I also know that aquariums really aren't in our budget and so I crossed my fingers that skipping this step would keep my husband happy as we'd be saving just a bit. Hindsight is 20/20...we've both decided we need a quarantine....
 
#15 ·
You would normally go for 2 teaspoons per gallon, maybe adding a quarter of that every 6 hours or so until full dose is reached.
If fish show distress, take out some water and add fresh water to dilute it a bit, and give it more time before upping it again.
Don't do the salt if you have lots of expensive plants.
 
#16 ·
I do have a ton of plants...expensive or not, they're expensive for me...to buy initially and to replace. Not doing the salt. Going to stick with the heat alone. Feels safest. The less variables, the better. I do think the garlic and EOs helped as the white spots disappeared from all but the worst fish in less than 2 days and even before the temp reached 86 degrees. Quackery or not...they seemed happy and healthy and maintained their appetites. But now that physical symptoms are gone, less is more so I'm most comfortable with just the heat. Going forward, everything introduced to the tank will be quarantined. My levels are consistent and perfect...PH is in range, Ammonia and NI are 0, and NA barely registers. I think the plants use up most of the nitrates. For a newbie cycling with fish-in, I feel that I've been very fortunate in that area. But dumping new fish in that just arrived at LFS was a huge mistake and I've learned my lesson. I wrote my fish guy and informed him of the situation. Asked him to get me a replacement NBDG as well as the regular DG I've been waiting for...and hold them for a month. If he does, then I should have a pretty good idea of their health when I pick them up...and still I'll quarantine since you never know what's lurking in the water. Hopefully, this is the last I'll deal with ich!
 
#17 ·
You Will get to the point where you rarely buy in new fish.
It is just such a hazard once you have a healthy established system. I basically buy a few of the best quality examples of what I like and breed the heck out of them.

Think the last fish I bought was the albino plecos, and that was direct from the breeder after inspecting his operation.
 
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