Troubled Goldfish - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman911 View Post
But they do have their reasons that you may not see I can explain the obvious ones I see. I used to breed fish and would cull all of the fry that were deformed, weak and even some runts. There is a selection in nature and the ones I listed generally do not survive. They also contribute to a decline in health of the overall species in the aquarium hobby and that's why that statement was made. Agree with it or not it is a valid and highly debated reason. Just because people put in a few words does not mean they have not considered the information given, to give their opinion. It may show lack of empathy but that has no difference on whether the opinion has merit. You or myself may not like it but that does not make it invalid. The fact is blindness and gills and swimming tilted all need to be considered. Just because they can be common does not take away from the fact they contribute to quality of life. For instance blindness may cause a fish not to be able to effectively avoid aggression, Gills with have an affect to an extent on breathing and overall health, swimming tilted will cause the pectoral fin to be extremely overworked on one side and will lead to further complications in the future, tumor may or may not be cancerous but may impact digestion swim bladder and other internal organs. I would hope that on a subject like this everyone has considered what was stated by the OP before recommending a decision but just because they use 5 words does not mean they did not or that they are jumping the gun.

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Oh no, I totally understand why culling exists, and I do think that it's necessary. However telling someone that their pet should've been dead at birth isn't appropriate and definitely isn't helpful.
Opened gill flaps, as long as they aren't hugely open, getting infected, attacked, etc, aren't really a detriment to life. For the OP, it sounds like a non-issue. As for his fish's blindness, he stated that the fish had been doing pretty well on life despite being blind, so I see that as a non-issue as well. Really, the only thing I see as problematic to the health of the fish would be the tumour. I agree 100% with you, that if it isn't removed, it will definitely cause harm to quality of life for the little guy. The fish has lived for a long time with everything except the tumour. So, the op can take a slide of the fish's tumour, and if it's not cancerous, just remove it, or have it removed. Then the fish's life would be back to the way it was. Easy. Personally, I think the people with 2-second responses aren't considering everything the OP wrote, and if they are, they are being callous. Saying "just kill it" (and that's it) denotes laziness. If we can't be bothered to actually find out what the quality of life would be/is, then we don't have a right to give advice or opinion on the life or death of the animal.

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 10:09 PM
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It is an emotionless, souless goldfish. The ones that don't meet the standard should be culled. Period. Goldfish like that only exist to try and pry a few more pennies out of the farms yield. A goldfish's only purpose in life is to exude beauty. The fact that it doesn't serve its purpose is reason enough destroy it. Its his fish to do with as he pleases but all three of his problems are untreatable and he paid good money for what should have been a cull.
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 10:23 PM
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Oh no, I totally understand why culling exists, and I do think that it's necessary. However telling someone that their pet should've been dead at birth isn't appropriate and definitely isn't helpful.
Opened gill flaps, as long as they aren't hugely open, getting infected, attacked, etc, aren't really a detriment to life. For the OP, it sounds like a non-issue. As for his fish's blindness, he stated that the fish had been doing pretty well on life despite being blind, so I see that as a non-issue as well. Really, the only thing I see as problematic to the health of the fish would be the tumour. I agree 100% with you, that if it isn't removed, it will definitely cause harm to quality of life for the little guy. The fish has lived for a long time with everything except the tumour. So, the op can take a slide of the fish's tumour, and if it's not cancerous, just remove it, or have it removed. Then the fish's life would be back to the way it was. Easy. Personally, I think the people with 2-second responses aren't considering everything the OP wrote, and if they are, they are being callous. Saying "just kill it" (and that's it) denotes laziness. If we can't be bothered to actually find out what the quality of life would be/is, then we don't have a right to give advice or opinion on the life or death of the animal.

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I agree but taking the time to find out and get a diagnosis or accommodating the needs all take time, effort most likely investment with no certainty of benefit which is where you get the opinions that are being posted. Like I said its a personal choice that needs to be made. Mine would be to euthanize but that's based on my evaluation of the quality of life I see for the future of this fish in my care. I feel as though it is suffering in its current state and do not see its quality of life improving without what I see as a significant investment of my time, money etc. which still may not improve its quality of life. That's just my opinion and it doesn't make it right but it also doesn't make it wrong.

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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 10:54 PM
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I agree but taking the time to find out and get a diagnosis or accommodating the needs all take time, effort most likely investment with no certainty of benefit which is where you get the opinions that are being posted. Like I said its a personal choice that needs to be made. Mine would be to euthanize but that's based on my evaluation of the quality of life I see for the future of this fish in my care. I feel as though it is suffering in its current state and do not see its quality of life improving without what I see as a significant investment of my time, money etc. which still may not improve its quality of life. That's just my opinion and it doesn't make it right but it also doesn't make it wrong.

Dan
<3 Agreed. Personally, I've spent $400 on my fish from Walmart, who has significant defects, and should have been culled as well, but I love him, and I view him as a pet, no less than a dog or cat. I know that not everyone feels that way though. ^_^

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 11:02 PM
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It is an emotionless, souless goldfish. The ones that don't meet the standard should be culled. Period. Goldfish like that only exist to try and pry a few more pennies out of the farms yield. A goldfish's only purpose in life is to exude beauty. The fact that it doesn't serve its purpose is reason enough destroy it. Its his fish to do with as he pleases but all three of his problems are untreatable and he paid good money for what should have been a cull.
You obviously didn't even read the OP's entire post. The discussion isn't about whether or not the fish should have been culled, and the OP didn't pay for the fish. A lot of people see goldfish as actual pets, and not just something pretty to look at. The OP obviously cares about his fish, and that's just as fine as someone who doesn't. There's no research to show what does and doesn't have a soul, or any research to show that fish do or don't have emotions. Tumours are completely treatable as long as there is no complication, and it's not cancerous. Have a little empathy, and get off of your uneducated high horse.

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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 11:27 PM
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Ah. The name calling begins. I read the post. He wanted options. He got from me the only two there are. I don't feel anymore sympathy for a fish than I do a cow, pig, or chicken. Educate yourself on the realities of keeping livestock and stop wasting his time with flowery non existent fish emotion.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 11:52 PM
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Ah. The name calling begins. I read the post. He wanted options. He got from me the only two there are. I don't feel anymore sympathy for a fish than I do a cow, pig, or chicken. Educate yourself on the realities of keeping livestock and stop wasting his time with flowery non existent fish emotion.
I feel like I have to jump in at this point. I don't think that they are saying that fish have emotion, they don't have the brain capacity. Fish can however, suffer and they also want to live. What if someone decided that you looked bad and decided that it was your time to die? Do you keep dogs and cats? I hope you don;t because a pig has more capacity to think than either of them, so by your logic, you would have no sympathy for those pets either. I don't think euthanizing is a good solution, especially if it is treatable. I would see if you can do anything about the tumor, especially if the goldfish has been fine with the defects. I have a Bolivian ram that swims a bit crooked because he has a weird fin (think Finding Nemo) but I don't euthanize him.

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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 12:31 AM
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Fine. I now suggest the OP carve a giant gaping hole in his fish to remove that giant tumor. Let it suffer with a giant weeping wound that will more than likely kill it. If it doesn't die I also suggest you go through it again when it grows back and hopefully you get lucky and it doesn't die again. Or get killed by a secondary infection from having no scales and a depleted slime coat. I also hope you enjoy keeping around a deformed and maimed fish because two spineless hippies talked you out of doing what was necassary against the opinions of several very experienced aquarists. Good luck and I'm out.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 12:44 AM
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Fine. I now suggest the OP carve a giant gaping hole in his fish to remove that giant tumor. Let it suffer with a giant weeping wound that will more than likely kill it. If it doesn't die I also suggest you go through it again when it grows back and hopefully you get lucky and it doesn't die again. Or get killed by a secondary infection from having no scales and a depleted slime coat. I also hope you enjoy keeping around a deformed and maimed fish because two spineless hippies talked you out of doing what was necassary against the opinions of several very experienced aquarists. Good luck and I'm out.
I don't know if you are classifying me under "Spineless hippies"but I have euthanized multiple fish, a dwarf gourami, praecox rainbow, a few guppies and a pristella tetra, all for various reasons. I have no issues euthanizing a fish that has no chance, but if something can be done, then I am all for it.
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 10:10 AM
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I feel like the OP's thread is getting derailed...

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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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This thread did get derailed, but I feel I need to clarify a few things instead of people speaking for me.

I love my fish. And I came here to ask for help and opinions, and I appreciate ALL of the opinions given, but certain responses did feel a little rushed and/or harsh. It's my fish, and obviously I'm going to be the only one who cares about it, but there is a general show of respect to the owner by showing empathy. I'm not mad at any of the responses given to me, if anything I'm disappointed by the lack respectable disagreement shown when a highly debatable topic comes up.

Gus should have been culled from birth. That is a fact. He's nothing but bad genetics, but I do still care for him.
I would love to bring him to a vet and have his tumor looked at, and while it's something I've looked into, it's not something I can realistically do right now. I'm a college student who can barely afford her books, I don't have the money to spend on him.

In the end, I think I will euthanize him. I've had blind fish before, and while he manages, he does not thrive or even succeed to the same degree my others have.
Even if his tumor is noncancerous, there's no telling if another problem would arise in the future. Overall, he's not healthy, and I don't think he's particularly content either, and I certainly don't feel like a good fish mama when I see him, and even though I'm doing the best I can, it's not the specialized care he deserves.

Because he is not yet suffering, as far as I can tell, I will wait a few more months until spring comes and I have a place to bury him.

Thank you everyone who replied, and a special thank you to those of you who gave obviously considered and thought out responses.
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