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Strange Disorder

3K views 35 replies 6 participants last post by  Varmint 
#1 · (Edited)
My male Betta has something going on. He acts like he cant stay at the bottom of the tank, like he has swim bladder disease for a couple of days, then he is fine for a few days....then on and on like that. At first I thought it might be electric current in the tank, since he seemed to be cured almost immediately after being put in a quarantine tank. But after about 2 days, he's back to acting like he has swim bladder issues. So back to quarantine, and immediately he swims normally. This has been going on for about a month now, off and on, and I'm stumped.
As soon as I move him around, he seems fine. I really don't know if I should treat for swim bladder, or if he is actually 'playing' this way.
He looks like he's playing in a pretend upward current and allows himself to go limp, lift to the surface, and then fights his way back to the bottom and start all over again.
Can swim bladder disease be intermittent this way? Almost cured just by moving the fish to another tank? I'm using the same water he is in for his quarantine, then he acts normal again.
I've added a pinch of aquarium salt to his quarantine. But since he looks fine even before I add the salt I wonder if I'm wasting my time with salt and should be treating for something else. He eats frozen shrimp, bloodworms, and flake. I feed every other day.
The only other thing I can think of is overfeeding. When I feed the frozen, I use a turkey baster and can't really measure the shrimp like I can flake. I'll see if I can measure out just about 2 brine shrimp/worms, or is that too much still?
I now have a name for him: Stumped.

P.S. no physical/visual signs of anything wrong. Body clean, gills good, fins full and beautiful
 
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#2 ·
My male Betta has something going on. He acts like he cant stay at the bottom of the tank, like he has swim bladder disease for a couple of days, then he is fine for a few days....then on and on like that. At first I thought it might be electric current in the tank, since he seemed to be cured almost immediately after being put in a quarantine tank.
What size is the quarantine tank? What size is the main tank. Could be a physiological problem. For some Bettas don't do well in big tanks. Can you post a pic of him?
 
#5 ·
.5g quarantine
5g Fluval Chi Cube
He's back in the cube now, and acting and eating fine...again....






Bump:
have you tried leaving him in the quarantine tank for several days? If so, is he fine the whole time? In that case maybe there is an issue with the permanent tank?

Have you done water tests in the permanent tank? If so are your parameters fine?

I want to talk to you about over feeding in case the turkey baster is a problem. If a Betta is over fed, the food in the gut can push on the swim bladder. Have you noticed if he seems constipated or bloated?
Thanks, yea he starts doing it in quarantine after about 1.5 days. I have white clouds in the tank with him, and they have shown no issue at all. I think I am over feeding him. It seems to start within hrs after I break a two day fast with food. So tonight I broke his fast with just 2 frozen brine shrimp. Tiny little things! It was hard to get just two separated. Cursed the whole time. I really feel that is the problem, since all of my other tanks and fish are fed the same way with the same baster at the same time. I think I've got to be more careful with him. I see no bloating at all when it happens.

Bump:
there might be some chemical/compound in your tank that is causing the behavior. A massive water change is involved.
Thanks, yea, I've been doing 90% water changes each week since this started about a month ago. The white clouds in his tank show no illness at all that I can see. I think it is about the amount of food he is getting. Tonight I broke his 2 day fast with 2 tiny brine shrimp. So far he is acting normal...again...
 
#3 ·
have you tried leaving him in the quarantine tank for several days? If so, is he fine the whole time? In that case maybe there is an issue with the permanent tank?

Have you done water tests in the permanent tank? If so are your parameters fine?

I want to talk to you about over feeding in case the turkey baster is a problem. If a Betta is over fed, the food in the gut can push on the swim bladder. Have you noticed if he seems constipated or bloated? In regards to feeding the frozen food, it is super hard not to over feed. Bettas always clean their plates, so to speak. Instead of a turkey baster, you may want to use a teaspoon or plastic fork (the duller the better). Pick up a couple worms on the fork or a couple of brine shrimp or daphnia in the spoon at a time. Remember that any food you drop that the Betta does not catch on the first pass, will probably be consumed later when he hunts in the substrate. I am guilty of over feeding the frozen food because I try to feed the tank mates too. My boys always find the scraps...always.

If you suspect constipation, cook a frozen pea. Let it cool. Mash it with a fork and feed about an 8th of the pea to your Betta. I don't know why, but most Bettas will readily accept a bit of pea. They love it. I would fast him for a day afterwards. The pea will clear his gut. Daphnia is a good food to break the fast with. It is tiny, easily digestible and they say it has algae in it's gut.

Good luck, I had problems with digestive issues until I stopped feeding dry food at every meal.
 
#6 ·
His belly looks pretty round in those pictures for a fish who has been fasting and then only got two brine shrimp. You have no substrate in that tank. That's good. It makes it easier to tell if he is pooping. Keep an eye out. If you don't notice he is pooping, you may want to try feeding him the mushed eighth of a pea.

Does he flare at an object? (Mirror, fishing bobber). If so play with him a few times a day. Flaring and opening his fins in play will believe it or not, help him poop.

I think cutting down on food and exercising could help get the pressure off his swim bladder.
 
#7 ·
Does he flare at an object? (Mirror, fishing bobber). If so play with him a few times a day. Flaring and opening his fins in play will believe it or not, help him poop.

I think cutting down on food and exercising could help get the pressure off his swim bladder.
Thanks. He flares because his quarantine is a floating glass inside of the 29g with another male betta. So I see him react quickly when the betta swims by. Maybe that's it, now that I think about it. Over feeding and no flaring makes for a dull bellied boy. Put him in the floating Q tank and he flares and gets the poop out...? humm. Might be on to something Watson! There is something to be said for a good poop, no doubt.
 
#8 ·
I've seen dropsy and it is not pretty. I get nervous about it now. Here is a Betta anatomy picture. The stomach is supposed to be the size of a Betta eyeball (so small that they never seem to include it on betta anatomy pictures :wink2:). As you can see all of the organs that can become inflamed, or distended due to various internal diseases are right next to the swim bladder. I think that is why swimming problems are often a first sign of organ problems. Organ problems often occur in Bettas due to diet.

That's why I started radically varying the boys diet. Eating pellets every day is like having a person on a steady diet of cereal and milk.

I like to make sure they gave a couple of small meals a day so that they don't go from being totally empty to overeating. Feeding the correct amount is a challenge. They beg and it is hard to say no. I always have to remind myself that they have plenty of wild food (snails, worms, micro organisms) in the planted tanks that they should never be hungry.


 
#9 ·
I've seen dropsy and it is not pretty. I get nervous about it now. Here is a Betta anatomy picture. The stomach is supposed to be the size of a Betta eyeball (so small that they never seem to include it on betta anatomy pictures :wink2:). As you can see all of the organs that can become inflamed, or distended due to various internal diseases are right next to the swim bladder. I think that is why swimming problems are often a first sign of organ problems. Organ problems often occur in Bettas due to diet.

That's why I started radically varying the boys diet. Eating pellets every day is like having a person on a steady diet of cereal and milk.

I like to make sure they gave a couple of small meals a day so that they don't go from being totally empty to overeating. Feeding the correct amount is a challenge. They beg and it is hard to say no. I always have to remind myself that they have plenty of wild food (snails, worms, micro organisms) in the planted tanks that they should never be hungry.
All the more reason to keep bettas separate from other fish. It's impossible to feed a betta in a tank with other fish carefully. I'm sure I don't want to pull him out to feed him every time. Because my other males don't seem to have this problem doesn't mean they won't eventually, so I need to figure this out. I think I'm on the right track now. Thanks everybody. :laugh2:
 
#10 ·
I feed my betta with tweezers,the reptile feeding ones? I pick out 2 or 3 bloodworms or brine shrimp on different days,and betta pellets.I try to alternate between the three foods,and never more than 3 tiny pellets.

Thought I'd mention the tweezers,takes the aggravation out of it.
 
#11 ·
Yeh he looks like he is getting over some health problem in the 1st pic. I usually start with aquarium salt. Also don't feed him for a week. Most likely you are overfeeding him. Fish do better underfed than overfed. Then there is the possibility he can not digest the food properly. An easy food to start with is Spirulina Powder Blue-Green Algae Super Food. You can find it at evilbay. I got a 4oz for 9. I feed it to my threadfin rainbowfish with an iron test spoon. I just tap a little in.
 
#12 ·
So he went thru another bout of it within hours of feeding just the two brine shrimp. So back in the Q tank with some aquarium salt, and he is fine again for the past two days. Pooping fine. I think I will take the advice offered by @Hilde and wait a few days before I feed him again. But when I do, I use the spirulina to break the fast. I'm guessing the Hikari algae wafers, just a scraping from one wafer, will give him the same.
 
#15 ·
I think I will take the advice offered by @Hilde and wait a few days before I feed him again. But when I do, I use the spirulina to break the fast. I'm guessing the Hikari algae wafers, just a scraping from one wafer, will give him the same.
Have you ever gone a fast? You can't start eating normal food right away. The algae wafers is a good idea.
 
#13 ·
Glad to hear things are going better. My black angelfish also started eating tonight.
It took two weeks of catching mosquito larvae to keep him alive.
Really glad I took his eggs from him yesterday. They should start hatching tomorrow.

Epsom salt is the preferred treatment for swim bladder issues. I have never seen swim bladder problems resolve with bettas.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the tip. I wasn't sure about epsom. Yea, if he can only live with an IV drip of salts I'll have to euthanize. But I'll work with him for the next few weeks, should he survive, and hope for the best. Good to hear your angel is better.
 
#17 ·
He eats frozen shrimp, bloodworms, and flake. I feed every other day.
The only other thing I can think of is overfeeding. When I feed the frozen, I use a turkey baster and can't really measure the shrimp like I can flake.
Oh missed that. Definitely over feeding him. When I feed my frozen shrimp. I scrape the cube into a cup of tank water. Did this even when I had 11 Von Rio Tetra.
 
#22 ·
I've been using a sourcream container filled with water approximatly the same temp as tank water,and defrosting my frozen fish foods into it,then feeding with tweezers.that way I can give the betta 2 or 3 brine shrimp or bloodworms with tweezers,and dump the rest to the other tanks.

those and yogurt containers are really handy for fish stuff.I keep small clumps of java moss in them as well.
 
#32 ·
Update: So I fasted the betta for 5 days, then feed scrapings from Hikari algae wafers for 3 days, and fish has been fine for the whole process, even during the fast, the fish was swimming normally. HOWEVER, yesterday I fed a tiny portion of a premium flake food, and back up to the surface he went. So I'm thinking @Nordic was correct, bettas may not recover from swimbladder issues. So either I keep the fish on algae wafers (haven't tried live food yet, waiting on some mosquito larvae), or euthanize. I'm assuming a betta can't live on algae forever? So if live food works, I don't mind keeping him on it. In fact, I may just feed algae and live food to all of my fish more regularly. I have plenty of brine shrimp eggs to hatch. I should get a good system going for live food.

P.S. Should I try antibiotics like @mistergreen mentioned? I feel like they would not be as permanent a fix because it looks like a physiological problem, or am I wrong?
 
#36 ·
In my opinion, flakes are bad for Bettas. I was adding flakes into the rotation of food and had a Betta get so sick, he got dropsy. I'm not so sure I would recommend the algae wafers either. Bettas are insectivores. They are made to eat wet protein. I do still feed them pellets regularly, but I switched to New Life Spectrum small fish formula. The pellets are very small. Maybe a quarter the size of their huge Betta formula pellets. My boys get 5-6 small pellets at a time. That equates to little over one regular Betta pellet. This brand is pretty high in fish.

Here is a link I found. Interesting feeding recommendation. In line with what I figured out on my own although according to this I still over feed Feeding Bettas | Betta Fish Care
 
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