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White bump bellow apisto's eye

4K views 31 replies 6 participants last post by  m9090 
#1 ·
Hi guys, My Apisto Agassizi Red Fire Gold was such an active, healthy fish that will eat like crazy.
These past two days he had being hiding behing the rocks around my plants and I didn't know why. So today I saw he had a white bumb bellow his left eye, It's hard to take a picture from where he is hiding [emoji30]
Any input? I love him and I don't want to lose him [emoji26]

Water parameters.
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
Ph: 6.7



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#2 ·
Bummer, friend :(.

Unfortunately, I have seen a lot of this on German Rams and the closest I came to a diagnosis was internal parasites or hole-in-the-head. I have tried pretty much everything, including prescription drugs with no results. In my cases, more bumps appear on the head first and then spread to the body.

I sure hope I am wrong and yours will pull through.

I recommend you PM matt13 on this forum and ask for his advise. He and his son are the most experienced dwarf cichlids breeders I know and respect.

Best of luck.
 
#4 ·
Bummer, friend :(.



Unfortunately, I have seen a lot of this on German Rams and the closest I came to a diagnosis was internal parasites or hole-in-the-head. I have tried pretty much everything, including prescription drugs with no results. In my cases, more bumps appear on the head first and then spread to the body.



I sure hope I am wrong and yours will pull through.



I recommend you PM matt13 on this forum and ask for his advise. He and his son are the most experienced dwarf cichlids breeders I know and respect.



Best of luck.

Urg... I really hope is not that and it's something that can be treated [emoji853] he's coming out when the lights are off and he's eating.
I managed to take a better pic, but since the lights are off it's a little blurry.
I will PM him, thanks guys. I hope he will pull through.





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#6 ·
Little update, it seems like it has reduced it's size or popped... He seems to be fine but still hiding... There's a very small bump now but the same colour of his body.

I'm crossing my fingers...


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#15 ·
API General Cure contains Metronidazole and Praziquantel.
Metro being an antibiotic, I would make sure to complete the entire treatment (not just stopping early because it seems cured) as the directions state, in order to make sure there are no bacteria survivors that could then develop an immunity to Metronidazole.

For what it's worth, that doesn't look like the typical Hole-In-Head disease (Hexamita, HITH, HIH, Lateral Line, Sensory pit Disease, etc) to me. Looks more like a fluid filled cyst. Not a tumor as it wouldn't have shrunk. If the cyst popped, it could have released spores into the water that may infect other fish. Or maybe it was a harmless (like pus??) cyst? I'm no expert. Who knows though, the medicine ingredients may just happen to treat whatever is wrong with the fish, whether it be HIH or not. If the fish remains fine, then great!

Whatever it is, I respect that you decided not to instantly kill the fish and instead, are trying to treat it.

That particular Apisto variant is pretty nice looking. I was really interested when I first saw them, but had to resist :)
 
#16 ·
API General Cure contains Metronidazole and Praziquantel.

Metro being an antibiotic, I would make sure to complete the entire treatment (not just stopping early because it seems cured) as the directions state, in order to make sure there are no bacteria survivors that could then develop an immunity to Metronidazole.



For what it's worth, that doesn't look like the typical Hole-In-Head disease (Hexamita, HITH, HIH, Lateral Line, Sensory pit Disease, etc) to me. Looks more like a fluid filled cyst. Not a tumor as it wouldn't have shrunk. If the cyst popped, it could have released spores into the water that may infect other fish. Or maybe it was a harmless (like pus??) cyst? I'm no expert. Who knows though, the medicine ingredients may just happen to treat whatever is wrong with the fish, whether it be HIH or not. If the fish remains fine, then great!



Whatever it is, I respect that you decided not to instantly kill the fish and instead, are trying to treat it.



That particular Apisto variant is pretty nice looking. I was really interested when I first saw them, but had to resist :)

No, trust me I really appreciate your input since almost nobody tried to help. Anyways. I also thought it was a cyst. I showed the people from my LFS the picture and they thought it was an infection and suggested to treat the tank with General Cure.
When I got home he was swimming around and the "cyst" had fallen off showing a hole, later I realized another tiny hole had appeared on the other side, I thought I was going to lose him but took a chance to treat the tank and finish the treatment, the tiny hole is now gone and the big one is showing cicatrization, tomorrow I should be doing a 25% water change as per the instructions but I will do a 50% water change and repeat the treatment just to be sure whatever affected my son goes away.
Also the white stringy poop stopped one day ago and now he's swimming around and eating extremely well. [emoji2]

What really makes me thing it was Hole in the head is the white stringy poop and the fact that the cyst fell off to show a hole. He would also try to eat and spit the food. I took a lot of time on the web to search for the symptoms and it all seemed to point to Hole In The Head.

Thanks again!

M.



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#17 ·
I wasn't aware of the hole left behind. I've seen Hole In The Head (Hex), but never seen the "cysts" grow like seen in your pictures. Usually it doesn't bulge out that far, at least not in such a smaller area (base of cyst). Usually the sensory pits are effected/have the erosion/hole/crater. The newest picture, I can't tell if the cyst is under the eye, on the "cheek", or if it's under the chin/mouth (underside of fish), where I don't think a sensory pit exists.

The slimy white poo can be a sign exhibited for Hexamita. Could be Hole In The Head, now that I hear a crater/hole was revealed after the cyst went away. It is a cichlid so it's possibility is higher (though I personally have rarely seen Hex effect dwarf cichlids such as rams and apisto).

Whatever it is, I'm glad things seem to be getting better. Hope it's cured!
 
#21 ·
I wasn't aware of the hole left behind. I've seen Hole In The Head (Hex), but never seen the "cysts" grow like seen in your pictures. Usually it doesn't bulge out that far, at least not in such a smaller area (base of cyst). Usually the sensory pits are effected/have the erosion/hole/crater. The newest picture, I can't tell if the cyst is under the eye, on the "cheek", or if it's under the chin/mouth (underside of fish), where I don't think a sensory pit exists.



The slimy white poo can be a sign exhibited for Hexamita. Could be Hole In The Head, now that I hear a crater/hole was revealed after the cyst went away. It is a cichlid so it's possibility is higher (though I personally have rarely seen Hex effect dwarf cichlids such as rams and apisto).



Whatever it is, I'm glad things seem to be getting better. Hope it's cured!


Now it is important to understand that the organisms, hexamita, that causes the hole in the head, normally starts off in the guts.

I would keep a very good eye on the fish as it might come back if the origin is not dealt with. But, good show in getting him better so far.

I think the only fishes I ever turned around with HITH were a betta and and angelfish.




Soaking fish food (I only advise if the fish will eat) in the med (General Cure/Metro) would help deliver the med to the fish's internals.

But if you have enough ions in your water (if not, you can dose potassium sulphate, like Seachem Aquazole uses) Metronidazole will still properly absorb (passes through membranes) into the fish, just dosing the med into the water column.



Good job!

Thanks guys for your input. It's extremy helpul!

While doing a research I found this online.

"HEXAMITA
a parasitic disease primarily of cichlid fish, some authorities consider that most, if not all aquarium cichlids are infected. the parasites are readily transmitted from cichlid to cichlid.
SIGNS
White stringy FAECES, sometimes also but not allways,accompanied by enlargement of the sensory pores of the head, which usually also become filled with whitish pus.
Dark colorisation and loss of appetite are common in advanced cases.
Both emanciation and distended body have been reported
CAUSE
These weakly pathogenic parasites are commonly found in small numbers in the intestines of cichlids, where they do no apparent harm under normal circumstances.
If however the fish is weakened (e.g. disease,stress,environmental problem) the parasitees multiply and migrate through the fishes system.If (and only if)they reach the sensory pores do the charecteristic pus filled holes develop
Death occurs if a vital organ is invaded and fatally damaged.
Many mystery deaths of cichlids may be due to hexamita infestations where the sensory pores have remained unaffected."

-------------------------------------------------

So it suggests my fish had "Hexamita-Hole in the head"

I finished the first treatment and I decided to do a second one just in case, I'm in the first dose of the second treatment, and tomorrow I should do the last dose. The hole seems to have closed but you can still see white healed skin.
I wonder if I should do a third treatment or just wait for the skin to completely heal by itself?

Also, can somebody tell if it's a male?

Thanks again!

M.






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#18 ·
Now it is important to understand that the organisms, hexamita, that causes the hole in the head, normally starts off in the guts.
I would keep a very good eye on the fish as it might come back if the origin is not dealt with. But, good show in getting him better so far.
I think the only fishes I ever turned around with HITH were a betta and and angelfish.
 
#19 ·
Soaking fish food (I only advise if the fish will eat) in the med (General Cure/Metro) would help deliver the med to the fish's internals.
But if you have enough ions in your water (if not, you can dose potassium sulphate, like Seachem Aquazole uses) Metronidazole will still properly absorb (passes through membranes) into the fish, just dosing the med into the water column.
 
#24 ·
When I was trying to keep my Rams alive, I could not find many, if any, accounts of successful hole in the head treatment. That's the reason for my original reply. Then your picture of the "cyst" looked different from what I have seen. Makes me wonder if there are more then one type / strain of parasites that cause similar symptoms.

Really, really makes me happy that your guy/gal is pulling through. Another important life lesson re-inforced: never give up.

:proud:
 
#25 ·
Things are not going as I hoped.
After the white growth which seemed to be HITH disappeared and there seemed to be a closing wund. I thought things were going to change. My poor fish still hides most of the time and comes out to eat. The growth has increased enormously and I don't know what else to do. He hasn't lose any weight, he wants to live and I want him to survive.
It's being two weeks that I'm dosing daily ParaGuard and every 3 days PraziPro. And nothing seems to be working. I don't want to dose the tank any more and I don't know which other med to use in this case. Any help will be highly appreciated. Please help me help my fish.

M




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#29 ·
I want to thank everybody for the support.

I took out my Apisto and put him in a bath of double dose of Paraguard for 10m but removed him as soon as he seemed to start getting stressed. It's been 5 days and there's no signal of infection or Fungus where it used to be, but my fish health has deteriorated enormously. He's pale, barely eating and barely swimming and I don't know if it's due to the strength of the medication or whatnot but I feel terrible for this guy. I'm giving him an extra week to see if he becomes active, I think he may be suffering, he's weak but holding on. I'm afraid I may have to put him to sleep. And that's the last thing I want.
I'll keep you all posted and thanks again!

M




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#30 ·
Shame, that fish is suffering and in terminal decline. Do the right thing and terminate it, there is no need to make it suffer any longer.
You tried your best.

The lesson for all is, the problem starts in the guts and you will need antibiotics, which may cost more than the fish.
 
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