Paintball Co2 Injection DIY Setup with Tons of Photos - Page 140 - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #2086 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by scags View Post
I am now using 2 needle valves. I have better control now, but find myself making adjustments daily. Really annoying. Definitely appreciating my main tank's 60 dollar dual gauge. Money well spent. I wish they would make a dual gauge that directly attached to paintball tanks - other than that 150 dollar red sea one- which looks cheap regardless of the price.

Searching the web for a high pressure fine adjustment needle valve seems hopeless.

PS- I am sure EOTD do happen, Co2 is deadly to fish/shrimp/snails and caution should be exercised when using any co2 setup!
first you have to realize exactly how this system works. it is not actually "regulating" the pressure. it is slowing the flow. similar but not quite the same. the pressure will still build even with low flow. a true regulator downscales the pressure from 800 to 150 or 70 or 15 or whatever, which you THEN adjust the flow on. now if you have 1, 2, 3, whatever needle valves in place, the "pressure" can still build across them. you have to (1) have the first valve nearly shut and (2) have the first valve not a cheap $8 valve that itself is only rated for 40lbs when the tank is putting out 800lbs. yhe high pressure is what makes these hard to adjust regardless of the valve. the last thing that will contribute to constant adjustments, other than minute leaks somewhere in the line, is the line itself. if you are using standard airline it will leak thru the line itself. maybe not at first but over time and under pressure. you need silicone line, at a minimum.

you "can" use a cheap needle valve with an expensive regulator but SHOULD NOT use a cheap needle valve on one of these. so, as you think it thru, getting the right equptment up front for a few dollars more starts to make more sense. a good system is set once and you rarely have to tinker with it after that other than changing the tank

Patrick
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post #2087 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Darkblade48 View Post
Perhaps I should clarify.

My first comment regarding the "real" regulator was unclear. Also, I may have misused the term "EOTD," adding to the confusion.

Let me define EOTD as when there remains no more liquid CO2 in the cylinder, and the gaseous CO2 begins to rush into the regulator, and it not being able to regulate the gas, will release it in increasingly large amounts into the aquarium (EOTD does not usually catastrophically release all the CO2 in at once).

Now, with most single stage regulators, the above phenomenon will occur.

With cheaper (I refer to this as "non-real") regulators, i.e. this one:

Paintball CO2

EOTD can occur, but it is more likely that they will not be able to regulate the pressure from the start (i.e. when there is still liquid CO2 in the cylinder), and will result in a catastrophic failure (as it did for that user).

Actually, in that thread, the paintball cylinder released all the gas (while the cylinder was new), killing all the shrimp.

Then (later in the thread), a single stage regulator end of tank dumped into another aquarium, killing off all German Blue Rams and their fry


If you were open to running inline needle valves (rather than mounting them), you could use any standard needle/metering valve.
I think I see where I was confused now as well. I always thought that co2 regulators used the gas from the top of the tank and not the actual liquid c02. If I understand what you are saying than the regulators are picking up the liquid from the bottom of the tank and releasing it as a gas after decreasing the pressure.

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post #2088 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by discgo View Post
I think I see where I was confused now as well. I always thought that co2 regulators used the gas from the top of the tank and not the actual liquid c02. If I understand what you are saying than the regulators are picking up the liquid from the bottom of the tank and releasing it as a gas after decreasing the pressure.
CO2 regulators use the gas from the top of the cylinder and not liquid CO2.

A regulator, as its name implies, will regulate pressure (i.e. reduce the pressure from 800 PSI to a delivery pressure of 30 PSI).

From what I can see, those cheap paintball "regulators" do not do this.

Anthony

A Primer to Pressurized CO2 and A Primer to Planted Tanks
Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
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post #2089 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-04-2013, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkblade48 View Post
CO2 regulators use the gas from the top of the cylinder and not liquid CO2.

A regulator, as its name implies, will regulate pressure (i.e. reduce the pressure from 800 PSI to a delivery pressure of 30 PSI).

From what I can see, those cheap paintball "regulators" do not do this.
That's what I always thought too until I read what you posted earlier about regulators not being able to regulate gaseous co2.

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post #2090 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-05-2013, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pglenn View Post
first you have to realize exactly how this system works. it is not actually "regulating" the pressure. it is slowing the flow. similar but not quite the same. the pressure will still build even with low flow. a true regulator downscales the pressure from 800 to 150 or 70 or 15 or whatever, which you THEN adjust the flow on. now if you have 1, 2, 3, whatever needle valves in place, the "pressure" can still build across them. you have to (1) have the first valve nearly shut and (2) have the first valve not a cheap $8 valve that itself is only rated for 40lbs when the tank is putting out 800lbs. yhe high pressure is what makes these hard to adjust regardless of the valve. the last thing that will contribute to constant adjustments, other than minute leaks somewhere in the line, is the line itself. if you are using standard airline it will leak thru the line itself. maybe not at first but over time and under pressure. you need silicone line, at a minimum.

you "can" use a cheap needle valve with an expensive regulator but SHOULD NOT use a cheap needle valve on one of these. so, as you think it thru, getting the right equptment up front for a few dollars more starts to make more sense. a good system is set once and you rarely have to tinker with it after that other than changing the tank

Patrick
I agree. I have a dual stage on my big tank, and I never have to touch it. It flows nice a smooth for months on end. My cheap setup is already empty. So I have to refill that tank again and look into buying proper equipment. Just seemed like I was hearing alot of people using these cheap setups and thought I would give it a try.
I was using proper Co2 line and I used teflon tape and checked for leaks. It was like you said first off- the pressure was continuously building and letting out massive amounts of co2 over time. Luckily I have no livestock in that tank right now- cause they'd be dead.

Where do I find higher rated needle valves?
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post #2091 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-05-2013, 07:57 PM
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Since you guys already have the paintball tanks, wouldn't it be more logical to just buy those 80 dollars Aquatek?

OR if you want to go the pure sexy paintball way, you can do this:




ADA 60P
|ADA 60F|ADA 30C|Fluval Edge[6g] |DIY Diffuser YT
E-series E60 on ADA60F - MicMol AquaMini x3 on ADA 60P - MicMol AquaPro on ADA30C
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post #2092 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-05-2013, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by scags View Post
Where do I find higher rated needle valves?
eBay, or here on the forum For Sale subsection are good places to start.

Anthony

A Primer to Pressurized CO2 and A Primer to Planted Tanks
Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
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post #2093 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-05-2013, 10:35 PM
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Thanks dark! I will start looking.
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post #2094 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-18-2013, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaggedfury View Post
I've been getting alot of messages about certain type of Valves to use. If you find something that resemble this type of On and Off Valve, it will work. I wouldn't use any of the other Mini On and Off Valves that are on [Ebay Link Removed] The On and Off Valve should be about 4 inches long. This is another one of my setup, but I decided not to use a gauge on it. So it's just capped off.






Hope that helps alot better.
I can only find a A-42 needle valve will it still work?
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post #2095 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-18-2013, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by newbieplanter View Post
I can only find a A-42 needle valve will it still work?
Rather than get an industrial type needle valve, you would be best off getting a finer needle valve that can control CO2 flow rate to a higher degree.

Without a needle valve that has fine control, you will be constantly fighting a floating flow rate, not to mention that the slightest shift will cause your flow rate to fluctuate.

Anthony

A Primer to Pressurized CO2 and A Primer to Planted Tanks
Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
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post #2096 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-18-2013, 09:24 PM
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How well does that paintball tank work, flyinghellfish? I was checking them out since apparently they'll help sort of prevent end of tank dump, but I hear that some of them leak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHellFish View Post
Since you guys already have the paintball tanks, wouldn't it be more logical to just buy those 80 dollars Aquatek?

OR if you want to go the pure sexy paintball way, you can do this:

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post #2097 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyingHellFish View Post
Since you guys already have the paintball tanks, wouldn't it be more logical to just buy those 80 dollars Aquatek?

OR if you want to go the pure sexy paintball way, you can do this:

Is there plans for this set up some where I'm missing?
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post #2098 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Darkblade48 View Post
Rather than get an industrial type needle valve, you would be best off getting a finer needle valve that can control CO2 flow rate to a higher degree.

Without a needle valve that has fine control, you will be constantly fighting a floating flow rate, not to mention that the slightest shift will cause your flow rate to fluctuate.
I got some Milwaukee regulator and I'm in the process of winning a reg from a guy who was doin planted tanks so it should have everything I need. Besides the fitment to the paintball tank which I have. This whole CO2 is becoming a problem and I haven't even set it up yet? Thanks for any info tho.
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post #2099 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Darkblade48 View Post
Rather than get an industrial type needle valve, you would be best off getting a finer needle valve that can control CO2 flow rate to a higher degree.

Without a needle valve that has fine control, you will be constantly fighting a floating flow rate, not to mention that the slightest shift will cause your flow rate to fluctuate.
This is one that I won so far.
It's a Smith Eqipment CGA320 medium duty.
Not Milwaukee sorry!

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps95249374.jpg
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post #2100 of 2412 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 01:29 AM
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The Smith regulator looks fine. Take off any extra fittings and add on the necessary fittings for your needle valve and solenoid (if you wish to have one) and you'll be done, since you already have the paintball adapter.

Anthony

A Primer to Pressurized CO2 and A Primer to Planted Tanks
Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
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