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DIY LED Pendants brainstorming. Multichip? Vero18? help me!

31K views 160 replies 20 participants last post by  Rinklr 
#1 ·
so been researching lighting for a bit for my 120 Gallon 60x18x27 build i'm working on. its going to be setup as a anubias tank with a riparium above the tank. want to light both the tank and the ripirium with some hanging lights. original plan was getting a couple 30" beamswork 2 row 3watt lights building a box so light spill in front and behind the tank would be controlled and suspending it a couple feet above the tank. I was unsure how much light would make it to the bottom of 47 inches, tank is anubias only but still want solid growth so need 30-40 par at the substrate.

I have been seeing some multichip LED projects and they seem like something I might be able to accomplish, especially a VERO18 build which keeps my not so great soldering skills away from the lighty bits. would you guys think 2 VERO 18 5600k CRI90 chips with 50 degree reflectors hung 2ft above my tank would push enough light down to the substrate? also I really want to have it programmable with sunrise sunset, but i'm not seeing a easy but cheap method like the TC420/sunsetter option I was looking at with the beamswork option. any thoughts? open to ideas.
 
#3 ·
yeah I might go that route. would love someone to kinda give me some direction here is what i'm thinking just not most up on electronics to make confident component choices. also the bluefin mini or storm controllers caught my eye but also not completly sure of what I need to get that all up and running.

I see a lot of the people who used the VERO led arrays mixed the 2700k and 5600k LEDs. if I got just the 5600k CRI90 leds would it look washed out?
 
#4 · (Edited)
Almost by definition, high CRI LED's will not render things washed out.
Most mix color temps for 1)sunrise/sunset effects and 2) supplement high photosynthetic red w/out toning the tank too warm.

Component choices are relatively easy as to the drive hardware (power supplies exceeding voltage needs of the LED's, LDD-h drivers, controller ect.)


50 degree lenses 2ft above the tank gives you a "cone" at the water line of 22".. requiring 3 to cover the 60" tank..

Now using a Kessil as a "baseline" since it is the best "COB" I can pick..you shouldn't have much a problem w/ getting PAR down there IF it is fairly close to equiv (fairly big claim but not out of the realm of possibility)

SPECTRA

forcing the calculator to a 50 degree lens and at 42" (106cm approx) calc estimates PAR at 60-ish..w 34W of LED's..

Doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility..

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/661818-diy-bridgelux-vero-18-led-build-2.html
I took a preliminary PAR reading of one Vero 18 with the Brooke-W and at 1000ma and 2ft high I got 165 PAR. This was done open air. For reference my old 9x Rebel ES cannon with 6x 6500K, 1x cool blue, 1x red, and 1x hyper violet got 150 PAR at that same distance in the tank with 60deg optics. At 1000ma the Vero 18 is only running at 33% power as it can go up to 3000ma. My goal is 60 PAR @ 3ft from substrate.
5000k 90CRI.. driven at 1000mA 29.5V 3885 lumens..
(29.5W effective)
BXRC-50G4000-F-24
BXRC-50G4000-F-24 Bridgelux | Optoelectronics | DigiKey

$11.21 each.. Get 4 if you are in doubt..
36V power supply (150W) 4 LDD-h's @ 1000mA, optics, heat sinks and controller
40 or 60 degree..
LED reflector family OP07520-C1C - LUMOTRIX


And no, 2 is not enough for FULL coverage and that PAR..
Each pendant "unit" will probably run $40-$60 (chip,lens,driver,heat sink)..

LPF6768-ZHP Bridgelux Pin Fin LED Cooler ø67mm
LED Heatsink R186-70 - heat sinks
NX501105 Aavid Thermalloy | Optoelectronics | DigiKey
$25 passive heat sink.. ..not cheap..
some choices...but not necessarily easy nor cheap-ish.
 
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#6 · (Edited)
well it can turn into a wash...but the main difference usually comes down to dimming protocol.. Most "all in 1" do any one or all of the following : pot dim, 10v PWM or 0(1)-10V.
Few, if any, do 5V PWM.. so some of your choice depends on controller..
There are plenty of "conversion" boards (PWM-10v, ect.) out there but just adds to the expense..
48v is only needed for any future needs.. 36 is fine for any # of Vero18's and any # of drivers in parallel as long as you don't exceed amp draw capability..

Voltage adds in series.. amps add in parallel..
Again LDD-s require a voltage differential so add 3V to whatever the V(f) of your chip is..
Vero 29's and some Luminous devices COBs would require higher than 36V ps w/ LDD's..

LDD's are buck regulators. They will increase (to ps max) or decrease voltage till the amp draw is in line w/ their specification..
Getting larger than necessary voltage only adds a bit to waste..

CORRECTION: Some of the 5V PWM will do 10V PWM....
 
#7 ·
ok talking with O2Surplus on the driver/controller end to see what he has avail that might fit my needs.

just a random thought I had if I go the full blow sunrise/sunset option it might be nice ot have some warm light on another channel.

lets say I go back to the idea of 2 sets of lights 1 5600k 1 2700k split apart 30 inches, giving each about 30 inches to cover, prolly actually would want to cover a bit more to make sure plants that will be growing above the tank a foot or 2 above get full coverage. so 90 degree reflectors 2 ft above the tank should give about a 38inch spread. the leds would then be in a 3 sided box that would block light spill outside the tank to the front and sides of the tank, this box would either be painted white on the inside or lined with say foil for reflectivity to bounce the light to the plants behind the tank.

running the Vero 18 5600k at 1000ma and the vero 18 2700k say 50% would yield 90 watt across the array or around 10-11k lumens (I know lumens aren't the best measure) so i'm thinking enough light

 
#8 · (Edited)
#9 ·
Why not go way "out of the box" and use some dual chips (2 channel ww/cw on board..)
SI-N8B1816E0WW Samsung Semiconductor, Inc. | Optoelectronics | DigiKey

These are 2700/5000k chips but supposedly have some w/ higher cool white..

$16/chip.. 2000 lumens 500mA at 35.5V approx..17.75W each..
Not stocked though..

Doing visible color temp mismatches w/ too much separation gives a "blotchy" rendering.

Samsung introduces LED modules based on chip scale packaging for spotlights and downlights | Solid State Technology
i'll look into that chip, this was a chip I was looking at though which kinda does what your saying as well. 60 watt CREE RGB WW W chip only 1 channel though

[Ebay Link Removed] Cree XP-E Multichip LED 60 Watt Red Green Blue Warm White Light 24-26V 1-2A | eBay[/url]

unclear if the Warm White is the high CRI version Cree makes or not. but I imagine with the RGB it will be fairly well covered spectrum wise.
 
#10 ·
The Samsung is still a "premium" chip @ $1/watt. Citizens makes one for stage lighting. Even higher cost.. Could be others out there Inc.@ Alibaba. Actually sure they have some Chinese clones.
 
#12 ·
I like that option. downside is it would be a pain to drive fairly high Voltage so can't wire them in series. and from what I understand bad to run in parallel. so to get the needed light output I'd prolly need at least 10 drivers prolly more actually since I wouldn't really want to have to have full light on the warm channel just to hit the par level I want.

unless i'm missing something that is
 
#15 ·
Those arrays are really nice. They're made by a guy called "Theatrus" ( he posts on RC and is a sponsor on the NBR forum). If money's no object, I'd go with a few of the AcroStar Half-Mega Daylight arrays. They'd provide more color temp tunability than two different colored Vero's. Plus those arrays are designed to work with reflectors right out of the box. Makes your build that much easier.
 
#16 ·
ok cool nice to hear its good stuff. price differene if I was running the Veros a 1000mah there not that much off watt for watt once you factor in sourcing reflectors and such for them.

any opinion on there driver setups? if I went with 3 there mini driver seems like a nice compact setup. would still need to do the dimming control. any recomendations? should I stick with the bluefish mini like I was talking to you about? Did you have any altrante driver ideas that might have some Pros over the options thru them?
 
#19 · (Edited)
Typhon is 4ch, no box, push buttons. TC-420 5ch, box,. USB computer programmable, needs work.
Main differences.
Both are 8 bit dimming. Typhon can be reprogrammed though. Just an Andrino.
Steve's hurricane is still 4ch, w box, 12 bit dimming.
Basically a reprogrammed, boxed Typhon.

I currently have 4 dimmer types and each has its plus and minuses.. That said, awaiting a Bluefish mini to make it 5.. ;)
 
#21 · (Edited)
Ch1 3@ 5000k 1@ bluest cyan bin available.
Ch2 3 @ 2700 2 660nm red

opps corrected errors..

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel PLUS (5000K) [120°] x3
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel PLUS (2700K) [120°] x3
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Cyan (490-510nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel DeepRed (650-670nm) [120°] x1
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 1,189 lm
Radiant flux : 4,343 mW
PPF : 20.4 umol/s
TCP : 4050 K
CRI : 85
λp : 659 nm
Color : #FFC47A
----------------------------------------

* PERFORMANCE @ 30cm
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 5.1 W/m²/s
Illuminance : 1,402 lx
PPFD : 24.1 umol/m²/s
----------------------------------------

by SPECTRA 1.0β @ 1.023world
http://spectra.1023world.net/
minor correction use one 4000k in place of one 5000k

Ch1 2@ 5000k 1@4000k, 1@ bluest cyan bin available.

Problem comes in on "look" 4000k effective vs 7000k..
You penalize CRI @D6500

Let me know if you can get cooler color temps than 5000k for the Luxeons.will adjust

Decided to try for ideal.. Some odd reason Luxeon III
Royal blue is superior to Rebel Royal blue
Ch1 3x2700k, 1x deep red
ch2 2x rebel cool white 1x luxeon III royal blue 1x cyan

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Cyan (490-510nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel DeepRed (650-670nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel CoolWhite (4500-10000K) [120°] x2
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel 2700K (2580-2870K) [120°] x3
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-III RoyalBlue (440-460nm) [120°] x1
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 933 lm
Radiant flux : 4,123 mW
PPF : 18.9 umol/s
TCP : 6130 K
CRI : 95
λp : 659 nm
Color : #FFC8CE
----------------------------------------

* PERFORMANCE @ 30cm
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 4.9 W/m²/s
Illuminance : 1,100 lx
PPFD : 22.3 umol/m²/s
----------------------------------------

by SPECTRA 1.0β @ 1.023world
http://spectra.1023world.net/
Makes no sense..
* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel RoyalBlue (440-460nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Cyan (490-510nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel DeepRed (650-670nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel CoolWhite (4500-10000K) [120°] x2
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel 2700K (2580-2870K) [120°] x3
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 953 lm
Radiant flux : 4,693 mW
PPF : 21.1 umol/s
TCP : 14490 K
CRI : 65
λp : 659 nm
Color : #D19DFF
----------------------------------------

* PERFORMANCE @ 30cm
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 5.5 W/m²/s
Illuminance : 1,123 lx
PPFD : 24.9 umol/m²/s
----------------------------------------

by SPECTRA 1.0β @ 1.023world
http://spectra.1023world.net/
 
#22 ·
as far as heatsinks did a bit more poking arround. I see a lot of the reefguys who do these types of setup use CPU heatsinks, stock intel heatsinks being a popular choice. I kinda like the form factor of them as well. the top frame the way its built would be a perfect spot to apoxy some sort of hook or mount to hang it like a pendant.



not sure if he bottom contact circle is large enough will need to look at the exact dimensions of both the array and the heatsink, looks like it will have solid contact under the led bits though fine so should be good right?



also in responce to the "perfect acro" talk. I think Jeff is on the right track I did notice when I was looking at the strips I asked the question unknowingly a few months ago of them when I saw one of there ads come accross my facebook stream. and there fresh water strip was described as "2x warm white + 3x 90CRI white + single 720nm red sound? Gives a nice red and blue peaks, with 720nm as well (not visually bright at all)" sounds like jeff is going for the same layout in the acro mold with 1 more red on the warm channel and a blue on the cool channel and I like that idea.
 
#23 ·
I just finished designing a solder footprint for the Luxeon C. That thing is tiny, but I'm confident that I can solder it LOL. I'm gonna design a layout that mimics BlueAcro's Mega Z array. I'm thinking that we need a minimum of 4 control channels to make this array worthwhile.

Jeff- The C's are available in a variety of colors including the new "Mint", as well as "Warm" & "Cool" White. Got an idea of the number of leds, colors, how they should be mixed across 4 channels? Keep in mind that I'd like to design the arrays in such a way that 2 could be wired in series per driver channel & driven by a 48V - 60V power supply.

Here's the new "C" footprint. It measures 2mm x 2mm.

 
#25 ·
I just finished designing a solder footprint for the Luxeon C. That thing is tiny, but I'm confident that I can solder it LOL. I'm gonna design a layout that mimics BlueAcro's Mega Z array. I'm thinking that we need a minimum of 4 control channels to make this array worthwhile.

Jeff- The C's are available in a variety of colors including the new "Mint", as well as "Warm" & "Cool" White. Got an idea of the number of leds, colors, how they should be mixed across 4 channels? Keep in mind that I'd like to design the arrays in such a way that 2 could be wired in series per driver channel & driven by a 48V - 60V power supply.

Here's the new "C" footprint. It measures 2mm x 2mm.

Interested in seeing how these turn out. Would be interested in trying some on my 90 gallon paludarium. Is 4 channels the max per board? I've got a bluefish mini so have 6 to play with
 
#24 ·
I like to approach this in the "simplistic" way.
First what would be "ideal"?
7 channels
R,G,B,WW,CW, UV,IR..
Next what could be combined or eliminated..
IR (>700nm) probably only important for crop plants and in our use not terribly important to be 1)controlled separately, just lump it in red or 2)inc. at all..
UV (<400nm) .. never is really needed. Possibly can influence red pigment production but.....just lump it in "blue" (which includes >400nm) or skip..

So that leaves 5..

Wrapping blue in w/ cool white is one most logical choice. cool white already ha a high component of blue and is usually best w/ added low K or red diodes..

so you have CWB,WW,R,G

Your worst case parameters limit each channel per chip to 6 to 8 diodes.
Assume you are shooting for 16 per board

so how about ch1 5CW,1B
ch2 5ww
ch3 2 deep red, 1 red
ch4 1 lime, 1 cyan

A bit of interpolation..;) green for lime

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Blue (460-480nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Cyan (490-510nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Green (520-540nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Red (620-645nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel DeepRed (650-670nm) [120°] x2
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel CoolWhite (4500-10000K) [120°] x5
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel 2700K (2580-2870K) [120°] x5
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 2,143 lm
Radiant flux : 9,905 mW
PPF : 45.7 umol/s
TCP : 7810 K
CRI : 88
λp : 659 nm
Color : #FFA9D7
----------------------------------------

* PERFORMANCE @ 30cm
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 11.7 W/m²/s
Illuminance : 2,527 lx
PPFD : 53.9 umol/m²/s
----------------------------------------

by SPECTRA 1.0β @ 1.023world
http://spectra.1023world.net/
 
#26 ·
I like that layout Jeff. Only downside I see is putting the blue on Cool White Channel is you lose the ability to use blue heavy light for night/ moon lighting, not sure if I would do that personally. But there are some who like to have that option. Not sure how one would avoid that though without going to 5 channels.

I think I'm going to build a lower power practice fixture with a cheaper 50/50 reef chip for a cube mbuna tank I'm not completely happy with lately to get my feet wet while I wait till next month to really dig into this setup and while I now wait and see what comes of this new array. Really appreciate the help of you guys. I think I'm finally getting my head around the basics of LED lighting
 
#30 ·
Making some progress.... 4 channels with 6 leds per channel. Don't mind the wiring traces.... I haven't pick out a connector yet. I designed the overall layout to match the Vero 29 Mechanical footprint. The array is laid out to fit inside and work well with a Ledil Angelina reflector. More to come......:smile2:

 
#34 ·
Yea!!!

anyways, starting layout:

ch1 5CW (6000-7000k),1B
ch2 6ww
ch3 2 deep red, 1 red, 1 orange red, 2 amber
ch4 2 lime, 3 cyan, 1 cw (6000-7000K)
(ch4 alt. 1 lime, 2 cyan, 3 cool white

alt est:
* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Blue (460-480nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Cyan (490-510nm) [120°] x2
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Green (520-540nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Amber (584.5-594.5nm) [120°] x2
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel RedOrange (610-620nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Red (620-645nm) [120°] x1
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel DeepRed (650-670nm) [120°] x2
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel CoolWhite (4500-10000K) [120°] x8
PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel 2700K (2580-2870K) [120°] x6
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 3,326 lm
Radiant flux : 13,742 mW
PPF : 63.5 umol/s
TCP : 6100 K
CRI : 93
λp : 659 nm
Color : #FFA1AC
----------------------------------------

* PERFORMANCE @ 30cm
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 16.2 W/m²/s
Illuminance : 3,921 lx
PPFD : 74.8 umol/m²/s
----------------------------------------

by SPECTRA 1.0β @ 1.023world
SPECTRA
 
#31 · (Edited)
Random thoughts from the peanut gallery on channel distribution. now this is based on no numers other than gut feel but why not something like

CH1 WW WW WW WW CW CW CW CW CW (not sure if 8 was doable on the channel if your going with 2 in series)
CH2 5 Reds
CH3 5 blues
CH4 5 Greens


theory being CH2-4 combined full light will give basically white if the right LED color spectrums are setup, when added to the CH1 Whites it should give full spectrum balance, with adjustment on coming from the RGB if different color temps are wanted.

other theory how hard would it be to go 5 channel with the thought of 3 being strung together? then just go 4 LEDS each of WW CW RGB on there own channels.

if 6 per channel is needed. another thought again just my uneducated idea.
Ch1 WW WW WW CW CW CW
CH2 5 Reds then a WW
CH3 5 Blues then a CW (maybe a 10k? or other blue heavy white?)
CH4 5 Blues then a CW (green heavy white? is that mint?)

the reasoning on the second layout is same as the first, but with the thought that i can't think of any reason you would need any color without some white mixed into it anyway so putting 1 white on each of the RGB channels will allow for spectrum adjustment, while still putting enough White LEDS on the board.
 
#32 ·
well was poking around on evil bay...and found this. So my last idea above might kinda be recreating the wheel, no idea of the quality of the leds though...but if it really takes 1amp per channel this thing is 150 watts if fully powered up? just thought it was a kinda crazy chip, optics on it would be equally crazy I would guess looking at dimensions



channel 1:XPE white 6000K 29-31V 350-1000MA
channel 2:XPE green 525NM 29-31V 350-1000MA
channel 3:XPE red 620NM 22-26V 350-1000MA
channel 4:XPE blue 470NM 29-31V 350-1000MA
channel 1:XPE warm white 3000K 29-31V 350-1000MA
SIZE:82*66*20MM
 
#33 ·
You never know if those chips on evilbay are the real deal or not. Likely a cheap knock-off
I would personally not want warm white and cool white on the same channel so you can adjust intensity of each to adjust the overall look of the tank warm and cool wise. I've got a bluefish mini controlling my diy led build with warm white, cool white, red, blue, cyan, and violet. Nice to control all individually. Definitely interested in these chips
 
#35 ·
Spent a few hours polishing this design up a bit....



Now we'll have our choice of 4,5,6,7, or 8 independent channels! I chose to forgo the use of a pretty wire harness for the flexibility of plain old solder pads. The Pcb measures 49mm in diameter. Take a look and let me know what you guys think?

 
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