VIV Lily pipes etc. - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #31 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SevenportsJohn View Post
Can't confirm or deny. I can tell you VIV is the manufacturer. They are the original manufacturer, not rebranded.
Ahhh, it's all clear now
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post #32 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 04:35 AM
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That's what patents are for. These "knockoffs" aren't copying some technology, they are copying a style. It's not like ADA spent months running flow optimization simulations on their filters and lily pipes (assumption, but let's be honest...), only to have someone copy their exact specs. Now, if someone copied something like the Spin pipe, which may or may not have a patent, you could make that argument
Actually they did do something like that. Almost all of their products have had a TON of R&D put in, seriously they rival Reef products like Vortech in this regard. The Solar series took 10 years to develop after an in depth study of lighting patterns and spectrum in the Amazon river (yep, straight to the source). They are not the gold standard for nothing. Back to the Lily Pipe series, they tested flow patterns to find which shape was the optimal one for use in a planted aquarium, one that would provide good circulation across the entire tank and not disturb the substrate or plants too much. This concept holds true even on large 180g where they use 1 set of pipes and have lush growth still. Then to further refine the design, you can raise the pipe to lower or increase oxygenation of the water. Finally they subtlety incorporated a element of Wabi Sabi in the product, when you raise it up it sounds like a Japanese creek or stream. The genuine P-6 Lily pipe is one of a very limited amount of products that impressed me after purchase. Pictures on a website don't do it justice, only once you purchase and use their products do you fully understand the hype and popularity. It is not because they are gimmicks, they are fully functional and aesthetically nice, form +function. If you are careful cleaning then the two downsides (algae and breakage) disappear and you are left with the perfect outflow. ADA further innovated by making multiple designs for use in different tanks like a Poppy (gentler), Violet (faster), Spin (nano) and stainless steel (durability) pipes. At least Cal Aqua tried to do something different with some of their glassware after the fact, but now loads of brands are knocking off what ADA created and popularized.

Ps: Sorry for going way off topic, last post regarding it. I just like everyone to have the knowledge and information available to them.
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post #33 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 05:02 AM Thread Starter
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What were we talking about again? Oh right, haha. That whole discussion out of the way, Lily pipes on the way.
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post #34 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 05:15 AM
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Actually they did do something like that. Almost all of their products have had a TON of R&D put in, seriously they rival Reef products like Vortech in this regard. The Solar series took 10 years to develop after an in depth study of lighting patterns and spectrum in the Amazon river (yep, straight to the source). They are not the gold standard for nothing. Back to the Lily Pipe series, they tested flow patterns to find which shape was the optimal one for use in a planted aquarium, one that would provide good circulation across the entire tank and not disturb the substrate or plants too much. This concept holds true even on large 180g where they use 1 set of pipes and have lush growth still. Then to further refine the design, you can raise the pipe to lower or increase oxygenation of the water. Finally they subtlety incorporated a element of Wabi Sabi in the product, when you raise it up it sounds like a Japanese creek or stream. The genuine P-6 Lily pipe is one of a very limited amount of products that impressed me after purchase.

Ps: Sorry for going way off topic, last post regarding it. I just like everyone to have the knowledge and information available to them.
My post was regarding lily pipes specifically, so I make no claims either way about lighting/Wabi Sabi (nor am I qualified to do so). What you wrote about ADA's lily pipes looks a lot like what they put in their website, which to me sounds like marketing gibberish. You can't find a single optimal shape for a lily pipe for a planted tank because it doesn't exist. How your plants are placed, your tank dimensions, your substrate depth, your substrate slope, your flow rate, how deeply rooted your carpeting plant is, and dozen other factors affects the "optimal" angle of the downspout and the shape. There's a reason reef tanks (where flow is arguably even more important) almost all have adjustable nozzles for the output. As for aeration, can you not do the same thing with any output pipe?

I'm not saying they just threw together a bunch of random numbers, but their angles and outlet shapes are hardly proprietary and they know it, or else they would have slapped a patent on it, being as secretive as they are. The only reason VIV's dimensions are the exact same
http://www.viv.com.hk/newsShow.php?bigtype=1&id=17
is because they are trying to compete with ADA on price.

Edit: Sorry John, I'm done here as well. I guess I'm defending your product at least :P Any further discussion will be carried out via PM

Last edited by Chronados; 08-28-2013 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Edit
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post #35 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 05:35 AM Thread Starter
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Edit: Sorry John, I'm done here as well. I guess I'm defending your product at least :P Any further discussion will be carried out via PM
Hah, no problem. I am as passionate about this stuff as you guys. And everyone had their view and opinion. Just as long as people don't get too emotional and divided over it. It's just aquariums and business. Open mindedness is the best entrance into any discussion.
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post #36 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 08:00 AM
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Ok, lets see the pipes

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post #37 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 01:00 PM
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I was disappointed with mine. They lack two suction cups to secure the angles both vertically and horizontally. Right now the tubing is twisting the pipes and it's taken a lot of fiddling to try and hold them in place. You get what you pay for I guess.

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post #38 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 01:34 PM
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I was disappointed with mine. They lack two suction cups to secure the angles both vertically and horizontally. Right now the tubing is twisting the pipes and it's taken a lot of fiddling to try and hold them in place. You get what you pay for I guess.

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That's normal with glass pipes and tubing.
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post #39 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 01:58 PM
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That's normal with glass pipes and tubing.
I beg to differ. If they were like the ada's with two cups per pipe it would make a big difference.

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post #40 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 01:59 PM
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I beg to differ. If they were like the ada's with two cups per pipe it would make a big difference.

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Ada's don't have two cups per pipe, they have one, you just have to twist the tubing trust me.
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post #41 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 02:15 PM
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Ada's don't have two cups per pipe, they have one, you just have to twist the tubing trust me.
I stand corrected. Someone should get on that. :-)

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post #42 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 02:19 PM
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Lol it's so that you can easily pop off and move up for circulation at night. Just put the hoses on filter then twist and put on lily pipes that way so that its straight.
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post #43 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 03:03 PM
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Lol it's so that you can easily pop off and move up for circulation at night.
Could use a remote control for that.

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post #44 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 03:07 PM
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Could use a remote control for that.

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Remote control hu?
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post #45 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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I would like a remote control for everything
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