This thread is to gauge interest in a community PAR meter. I am getting one and its a one time use type thing until you change lights or you feel yours are getting old. I thought some others might like to use it. You would have to be a TPT supporter, Have a good iTrader rating, and pay for shipping both ways. Would anyone like to try this out? Please post comments, concerns, questions below. If you would like to steal it, please tell me before I ship it to you
I would want to try one out for sure. I think my lighting is a little low at my substrate but want to test to make sure. Can you add me to the list please?
Can do. First to post gets it first. This could aslo provide a nice sister thread of everyones tanks and light findings to help sort out some lighting issues for different plants. With ferts pinned down, now lighting, all that is left is Co2.
The Apogee GS200 is what im looking at. I see it quickly for $350, but I havent googled around yet. I will likely be ordering it this weekend. Whats a fair amount of time for one person to have it so everyone gets a shot. Im thinking about a week ought to do you just fine and allow time to get it back to the PO. Opinions?
It sounds like a neat idea to have one available. However, I'd be very worried about the wear and tear of the thing being shipped around the country, and it would be hard for me to trust that everybody would be gentle in its use and generous with packing insulation. I'm very tempted, and might be persuaded, but at the moment I'm doubtful it would last long
It sounds like a neat idea to have one available. However, I'd be very worried about the wear and tear of the thing being shipped around the country, and it would be hard for me to trust that everybody would be gentle in its use and generous with packing insulation. I'm very tempted, and might be persuaded, but at the moment I'm doubtful it would last long
Hence the shipping BOTH WAYS. That way it will get returned to me each time for review. Im sure nobody wants the fame and fortune as being the guy who broke the meter. I also expect a descent iTrader rating so I know you have some knowledge of proper shipping procedures. I feel most everyone who is intelligent enough to use/need one will be smart enough to respect that its not theirs, but borrowed. As for wear and tear, eh, things dont last forever. Its bound to happen. Planted tank clubs do this all the time and I thought it would be nice for some folks to try it out if youre not near a club, group, or just plain dont have access to one. Plus the information in one collective thread about fixtures and bulbs and their readings as well as the plants being grown could prove priceless.
My thinking for the packing was, come up with some sort of padded box/container that fits perfect inside a shipping box. Then make sure it goes in this same container wherever it travels so only the outer shell(box) is replaced.
Not really that expensive. I would buy one if someone agreed to buy it used. We could arrange a queue of people, and reduce the cost 25 bucks each time it changes hands, seller pays shipping. Spread the risk
I would hope that the folks involved with this would have respect for the equipment and for Chad helping out the TPT community when he does not have to to this degree. I think this is a great idea. If one person receives it in a "not so good" shipping box/packing, etc, they should have the respect to make the proper adjustments when shipping back.
@hbosman, I am asking that you be a TPT supporter. I think this will help ensure dedicated people are using it respectfully. I will count you inline, as is, if you are a supporter by the time it gets around to your turn. No disrespect to you. I just think it will weed out some less dedicated people that may be gone from the site in a month.
SOme sort of contract would be needed as well. $300 is nothing to laugh at, Buyers Beware. I don't think TPT can be a part of this but you guys can go ahead to do what you want.
Think of the all the things that can go wrong first, even the incidentals like damage during shipping or someone didn't pack it right. Who's at fault?
Im a pretty easy going guy. If USPS stomps on it, then its my loss. I will ensure it is properly packed in a hard case. TPT doesnt have to be involved at all other than referencing via support. It basically comes down to this. I want one. Once I spend the $$ and use it for my tanks, what good is it? It would be useful to other people. Im agreeing to send it to them to use in exchange for their information. I want their specs/parameters to share in one thread so others will be able to use it to grow better plants. It sounds like a win/win situation. Eventually someone will get lax and it will get broke. Hopefully the information on various fixtures, bulbs, and plants is good enough to make it worth the $$. The highs and lows of micromols for certain plants could also prove useful to the plant database. It would also be useful in problem solving. You would know its not lighting, so it must be ferts, co2, etc..
This is a great idea. PAR data, to be useful has to include the light manufacturer and model number, preferably, the bulbs data - manufacturer, color temp., age, etc., and the distance of the light from the sensor when the data was obtained. Plus, we need to be alert enough to know that measuring light in a clump of plants doesn't tell you a whole lot, except that some plant will grow in that light intensity. We also need to know if there was a glass top on the tank and, if so, how clean it was. Ideally we would need PAR numbers for at least 2 distances from the light to the sensor.
For plant related data, we would want the PAR at the top of the plant, at the bottom, and maybe at the distance where the leaves are no longer growing well. Characterizing how well a plant is doing with that light will be difficult.
Thanks for your input Hoppy. I hoped you'd chime in here. This is the kind of feedback that could make this a success. We need to compile a list of "have to knows". You obviously have more experience with lighting than most of us and your continued help would be much apreciated.
Need a list of the data points and standards to develop a fixture, bulb database. For instance, folks will want to know THEIR readings, but it would be good to also record data at some common heights for instance, say 20, 24 inches, so fixtures can be compared against similar parameters.
Hoppy, maybe you can develop the matrix of data points and basic technique.
I couldn't find the GS200 but I found this one. To me, it seems that a $340 item isn't worth the trouble of dealing with contracts, rental agreements, etc. I had no idea they were so inexpensive - by the tone of the discussion about them I assumed they were thousands of dollars. I think I could just buy one, be careful with it, and get most of my money back by selling it to someone around here.
I couldn't find the GS200 but I found this one. To me, it seems that a $340 item isn't worth the trouble of dealing with contracts, rental agreements, etc. I had no idea they were so inexpensive - by the tone of the discussion about them I assumed they were thousands of dollars. I think I could just buy one, be careful with it, and get most of my money back by selling it to someone around here.
Yes Dave, thats it. I typod the name the first time, sorry. Thank you for the correction. And yes, it was cheap enough to buy, so I figured the information might be more useful to me than making my $$ back on it. For you though, I dont see why your idea wouldnt work.
This is a great idea. Count me in! (after i get my silver membership back...)
Flowmsp has a good point-- shipping it in a wooden box (with pads) that can easily fit inside of a priority box would greatly reduce the chances of it being damaged during shipping.
i'm not sure how much or how it works but you might want to make the shipping include insurance. i've received quite a few post office damaged boxes lately. just a thought.
I would have a stomp proof gun style box that fits in the square priority 6" box. I'd like to keep shipping to a minimum. I do want delivery confirmation so it will already be about $10 to ship one way. Thank you for your input tho. These are the suggestions that can make this thing work.
Folks put in their share of the 20$ each and get to use i for say 2 weeks, few would need it longer.
Shipping it in the USPS boxes with a good bubble wrap should take care of most any issues.
After the total 340$ is reached, the unit would be "rented" to those not making the buyer cut off, so the 20$ would go to the next in line on the intial buyer.
This way after 340$/20$ = after 17 nuses, the unit starts paying the cost back to each buyer who put in.
After 34 uses, the unit would be free for those who initially bought the unit.
And so on..........each new rental would pay for the next in line.
So simply sell 20$ worth of weeds, and then you have the $ to start.
Average time/wait is 1-2 weeks of use till the next, say 15-35 weeks till everyone is happy.
Another 15-35 weeks till every one is paid and scott free.
Hey! Even if you go with Tom's idea, I would toss up $20! Then of course shipping both ways also. It's well worth it. Worth it for each of us on our own and all of us as a community!
Hey! Even if you go with Tom's idea, I would toss up $20! Then of course shipping both ways also. It's well worth it. Worth it for each of us on our own and all of us as a community!
Tom idea is a good one. I just want to make it clear that this is for imformation purposes and not for profit. There really isnt a good collective database of sorts on this type of thing. I personally would find a long thread about this interesting. Few people have access to one because they are cost prohibitive. This is a chance for everyone to share, share information, and allow novices to problem solve easier. The only feasable way I would collect extra funds from it would be to replace the meter once we got enough donations to pay for another. I dont know the longevity of one so I wouldnt even begin to be able to quote a price. Maybe someone else has some input on personal longevity.
I really like the idea, and would love to get my hands on the meter once I get around to getting a membership.
Personally, I see no harm in there being a $5 charge above the price of shipping. One, it allows the risk to be minimized, as well as generating a bit of income for you/ other group buys for the benefit of TPT community. I would gladly pay up $5 extra myself.
What I would really like to see if this comes to fruition is a collection of data about the various common light fixtures that we see in the hobby today. We would need to come up with a few standard measurements locations that should be taken for every light. However, I believe this type of information would easily become indispensible in making good purchases of lighting fixtures in the future.
Think about it. You want to figure out if you can grow plant X with light Y. This is an exceedingly common question on the lighting sub-section of the forums.
If we get this data together, it will be easy enough to know the answer for your question without a large search or posting a new topic. Simply look up how much PAR your proposed light fixture outputs at your predetermined height of the light above the substrate. Factor in a couple other variables such as substrate, CO2 and fertilizer dosing regimen (or lack thereof) and your question is answered.
In my eyes at least, this has the potential to be something much greater than simply sharing an item normally not available to your typical hobbyist, a chance to really get some significant research done for the benefit of the community that we can all use.
This is also where I like the idea of including a $5 usage charge atop the price of the shipping cost. If we wanted to, another meter could be bought, effectivly doubling the rate at which data could be gained. I agree that it also makes sense to only allow people who are supporting the website to allow the meter. Not to say that it is true in all cases, but you can generalize that those people who support the site are more serious about the hobby as a whole, and therefore more likely to respect this service as well as more likely to provide good data readings on their lights.
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