DSB experiment - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-08-2013, 08:00 PM
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I'm subscribing to follow along with your experiment, but this will be a long term thing. You won't be able to tell if it is good or bad for several months. It will also depend on your bio load. I've also heard whispers around the net (nothing even remotely close to being verified) that the BB cannot live deep in the sand. But time will tell. I'd give it at least 6-9 months before you can make a determination if its working to your benefit or not. When I did a peat moss substrate, everything looked great initially, but after 7-9 months its not so well.
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post #17 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-09-2013, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Dsb

Hello!

There is probably a reason that DSB not is commonly used in our planted tanks. I dont know or say that DSB work but i am somewhat interested in the subjeckt, especially beacuse my tank already have one.

I have looked through the internet, i actually think i reatched the very end of internet. As said beafore not easy to find anything about the use of DSB in planted tanks and it is probably a reason for that. But i did manage to find something:

http://www.farmertodd.com/Freshwater...h/default2.asp

http://www.farmertodd.com/pdfs/native_fish_tank.pdf

Jnad
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post #18 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-12-2013, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Uppdate

Plants still growing strong accsept for one spicement i dont know the name of, it is wide leaf plant. Compared to the dirt tanks the water is still cristal clear, but i dose ferts to the plants, did not not do that with my dirt tanks.

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post #19 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-14-2013, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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Update

Hello!

Discovered several small shrimp baybies in the tank today.
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post #20 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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Hello!

Hmmm, my 10g DSB experiment is still running with no issues. But i seem to have another problem, i have about 25 Mosquito Rasboras in the tank and today i couldnt help myself bying 15 more fishes when i found this buties in my local aquatic shop:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species...anio-axelrodi/

So i now have about 40 fishes in my 10 gallon they are very very small but many
Hmmm, i also have 10 galaxy rasboras in bacorder, what should i do when they arrive next week? Put them in my 10g or start another tank

Jnad
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post #21 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-15-2013, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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Uppdate pictures

Hello!

Here is some update pictures of my DSB tank, there is about one month between the pictures. I think the tank/DSB is growing plants very good.

And unfortanately i have probably overstocked the tank, it is about 50 fishes in there now, they are small though and it seems that the DSB can handel the fish load.
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post #22 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-15-2013, 10:09 PM
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Wow can't believe you have the Alternanthera reineckii (red plant) growing so well. You must have put some root tabs under it. What is your trick?
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post #23 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hilde View Post
Wow can't believe you have the Alternanthera reineckii (red plant) growing so well. You must have put some root tabs under it. What is your trick?
Hello!

I am using no root tabs, only occasionaly adding some ferts to the water column. The pool filter sand is really fluffy so maybe the water with fert is circulating in the substrate. The light is some simple household diy led, i have redone the tank but here is the led:
New led picture

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post #24 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnad View Post
Hello!

There is probably a reason that DSB not is commonly used in our planted tanks. I dont know or say that DSB work but i am somewhat interested in the subjeckt, especially beacuse my tank already have one.

I have looked through the internet, i actually think i reatched the very end of internet. As said beafore not easy to find anything about the use of DSB in planted tanks and it is probably a reason for that. But i did manage to find something:

http://www.farmertodd.com/Freshwater...h/default2.asp

http://www.farmertodd.com/pdfs/native_fish_tank.pdf

Jnad
If you can't find a reason they're not used, it's unfair to say that such a reason exists.

I've been running a DSB for about 10 months (the same DSB that was in a 10G for 2 months is now in a 20 long+sump with added sand). It's great to finally see some other people with one! It is a fantastic system. There is a reason they are used in SW tanks, and that is that they are very good at processing excess nutrients into easily removeable substances through the water column (via water changes or crazy amounts of macroalgae).

A DSB in a planted tank does the same thing, except (once it's well established) these nutrients are removed by the plants rather than by WCs. The effect is little to no excess nutrients (I have none), and increased plant growth in non-nutrient rich substrates. The DSB itself establishes it's own nutrients by the breaking down of detritus within the substrate, allowing the formation of Nitrogen, Iron, Sulfate, and other chemicals that plants will absorb through their roots and leaves.

That being said, the key part is establishing the DSB. It takes a freaking long time. Think of it as cycling a tank, but waiting for all of that bacteria to establish itself through all of the sand, dying, forming different bacteria, dying, and forming different bacteria. And there's no stable way jumpstart to either of the last two layers!

+1 on the MTS, they'll only stay in the aerobic region, and really help with sifting the mulm into the substrate. I would hold off on adding more fish for at least 2 or 3 weeks if possible, you shouldn't have any trouble if you keep with your WCs, but a fully established DSB can handle that number of fish in this sized tank with something like quarterly 25% WCs. Doesn't it get crowded and look hectic with so many fish? Or do they shoal up pretty well?
In conclusion, Tom Barr is wrong

Edit: sorry, I didn't see that you already had MTS.

People are too often merely stating an assumed truth from flawed observation.

Last edited by Legot; 09-17-2013 at 05:10 AM. Reason: changed.
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post #25 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, the fish picture get a little hectic, i intend to start another tank soon, and then moving some of the fish.

Jnad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legot View Post
If you can't find a reason they're not used, it's unfair to say that such a reason exists.

I've been running a DSB for about 10 months (the same DSB that was in a 10G for 2 months is now in a 20 long+sump with added sand). It's great to finally see some other people with one! It is a fantastic system. There is a reason they are used in SW tanks, and that is that they are very good at processing excess nutrients into easily removeable substances through the water column (via water changes or crazy amounts of macroalgae).

A DSB in a planted tank does the same thing, except (once it's well established) these nutrients are removed by the plants rather than by WCs. The effect is little to no excess nutrients (I have none), and increased plant growth in non-nutrient rich substrates. The DSB itself establishes it's own nutrients by the breaking down of detritus within the substrate, allowing the formation of Nitrogen, Iron, Sulfate, and other chemicals that plants will absorb through their roots and leaves.

That being said, the key part is establishing the DSB. It takes a freaking long time. Think of it as cycling a tank, but waiting for all of that bacteria to establish itself through all of the sand, dying, forming different bacteria, dying, and forming different bacteria. And there's no stable way jumpstart to either of the last two layers!

+1 on the MTS, they'll only stay in the aerobic region, and really help with sifting the mulm into the substrate. I would hold off on adding more fish for at least 2 or 3 weeks if possible, you shouldn't have any trouble if you keep with your WCs, but a fully established DSB can handle that number of fish in this sized tank with something like quarterly 25% WCs. Doesn't it get crowded and look hectic with so many fish? Or do they shoal up pretty well?
In conclusion, Tom Barr is wrong

Edit: sorry, I didn't see that you already had MTS.
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post #26 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-19-2013, 05:26 PM
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Sorry if I missed this, but did you take out the filter yet?
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post #27 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-20-2013, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry if I missed this, but did you take out the filter yet?
Hello!

No i have not taken out the filter yet.

There is so many fishes in there now so i feel it is best to let the filter in the tank. I do need water movement anyway, and the little shampoo bottle attached to the powerhead filled with Matrix is not viseble behind the plants.

I chime in if i decide to take out the filter
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post #28 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-20-2013, 08:14 PM
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How big is your filter? I definitely would run the powerhead for flow myself so I can understand if you want to leave it in.

I am looking to start a DSB in my new tank as well. Finding information on it is pretty tough so its nice to see people chiming in here that they do it. My plan is to put one in the sump and only have a coarse pad to prevent any mulm from making it to the main tank.hopefully all that sand surface area will enable me to not have to fill the sump with bio balls or something and maybe keep it as a plant grow out area
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post #29 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-21-2013, 06:07 AM
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Yes! Another sump guy!

How big is your sump and how big is the main tank? Mine is a 10G sump with a 20long display. The main tank has a 3" DSB, and the sump has a +6" (because it's a sump and it's easy).

What sump layout do you have? Or do you not have it setup yet? If it's already setup, do you run a reverse night cycle, 24/7, or the same as the display?

Sorry, I'm just excited seeing someone else with a setup that may become so similar to mine

People are too often merely stating an assumed truth from flawed observation.
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post #30 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-21-2013, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Hello!

I am using a small shampoo bottle for kids, it is only 200ml in volume. But it is big enough to take the recommended amount of Matrix for a 10 gallon tank.

This little shampoo bottle attached to the powerhead is doing its work wonderfully. Must be the best, easiest and cheapest internal filter there is , just my opinion I will use the same type of filter on my next tank to, it is a bigger tank so of course i will use bigger bottle. Those internal filters is so easy to maintaining/clean.

A sump with DSB and plants is interesting, hope you start a tank journal.

Jnad

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasob85 View Post
How big is your filter? I definitely would run the powerhead for flow myself so I can understand if you want to leave it in.

I am looking to start a DSB in my new tank as well. Finding information on it is pretty tough so its nice to see people chiming in here that they do it. My plan is to put one in the sump and only have a coarse pad to prevent any mulm from making it to the main tank.hopefully all that sand surface area will enable me to not have to fill the sump with bio balls or something and maybe keep it as a plant grow out area
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