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The 700 gal indoor sunken garden project

462K views 535 replies 213 participants last post by  H82LOS3 
#1 · (Edited)
Some of you in this forum might remember on several topics I've started on building bigger tank, attaching glass to concrete, slow UGF system, etc. They serve as part of simple research.

So here I review the whole thing and throw into a journal : sunken garden project.

Background : House under renovation. We used to have a space inside the house which is basically a huge terrarium cliff. The space measuring around 3 x 3.5 meter and some 5 meter tall and heavily planted with vines such as pothos, phylodendrons, etc. They live from an opening at the top (no roof) measuring 3 x 3 meter so sunlight could penetrate in for several hours. The decor of the thing is already too old and does look so much artificial (made in late 70's), so it is put down with the renovation. Since we love it such so much, the renovated house will feature the same garden at the same spot (which is inside the house right by the living room) but this time with much more realistic decor and a simple aquascape to spice it up.



Green : garden area
Light blue : void
Blue : second floor
Grey : stairs



(it used to look something like this in the past, with the walls textured and planted. If you notice the white strip which shows a man standing compared to the structure).

And so the garden was demolished along with heavy renovation project on the house. As renovation started, the garden was stripped to bare walls.



Going to drawing board, I came to a concept of making a paludarium thing that looks like a piece of nature scene, cut it and intall it in the house. That is of course complete with the cross section on the scenery which includes a cut of the water... and that means installing a plank of glass on one side to view it all.

I looked around for a decent landscaping and architectural contractor and end up with a company which occacionaly deals with great natural projects on hotels, apartements and private houses. As I have no capability of building this without a team and the expert in making highly artistic artificial rock/cliff gardening, DIY this kind of work by myself is almost impossible. High craftsmanship is needed and hundreads of hours will be spent even by a team of 3-4 people.

I made a top view concept of the sunken garden like this :



1. Water section of garden
2. Glass for viewing
3. Floor (lowered)
4. Dry section of garden
5. Filter compartment
6. Floor (raised)

The glass part of the pond will measure around
1. 150 x 60cm
2. 200 x 60cm
and feature 19mm glass, open top style.

From the lower floor to the base of the pond it will be 25cm deep and the raised portion is around 50+cm, thus making the total depth practically exceeding 75cm.



The dry section of the garden, which is raised from the water section, will be integrated with cliffwork to form realistic scene which resembles what you can find in tropical waterfalls/dripping cliffs. Pockets for planting area will serve as starting points for terrestrial plants, climbing, aerial, epifits, mostly medium to low light plants including but not limited to : ferns, bromeliads, pothos, ivys, phylodendrons, orchids and many kinds of forest floor plants.
 
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#3 ·
The filter will be built with a backwash system in order to minimize maintenance (its going to be quite big and would be tiresome to take care of when using regular filtration system).

Rough illustration on the filter :



1. Inlet from pond.. overflow so the pond surface will be clean from film and trash.
2. Filter chambers. Some will be accordingly filled with brush, ceramic rings, bio balls, filter mat, sponge and filter floss.
3. Backwash drains (controled by individual valves)
4. Overflow drain, controlling water level at constant height.
5. Return line.

Building this way is not only cheaper (compared to factory built pressurized or canister system) but proved long lasting and very effective as well, even in koi ponds where the dirt and poop is much more than of an aquascape. With a simple turn of drain valve, backwashing is done and the clogged filter will be restored significantly hence reducing the frequency of filter maintenance.
 
#4 ·
Really detailed. I am loving the whole idea even before things are being built. Great project you have got there,will be looking forward to the entire setup.
 
#6 ·
This will be one to watch. I am always interested in alternatives....especially where architecture is concerned. Nice plan, MM
 
#9 ·
The filter is projected to be around 150 gallon in volume which is not overkill at all and in certain conditions (such as koi keeping) some may even be considered under capacity. But still that is a staggering 20% volume of the pond and I'm pretty sure for a planted setup such portion is more than enough. Such allows me to re-setup the pond for koi keeping or fancy goldfish or other form of non-aquascaping aquaria should sometime in the future under circumstances when I'm unable to take care of plants anymore. when building something of a bigger scale and it is integrated to your house, future things must be taken into account, unlike a stand alone tank which easily tucked away into the closet or disassembled to blocks of glass.

I plan to mimic nature more by adding an all time fresh water flow to the pond. Not at a large scale like of natural streams/rivers, but more like 15-20% WC each day that runs constantly - copying to smaller limit how fresh water supply huge ponds and how the pond empties by overflowing into another stream. Sure this might sound like an act of wasting water so I will make sure to add a water regulator to make sure the fresh water supply is constant and as necessary, such as calibrating to 250-500mL per minute. The benefits of adopting such system will also be carefully monitored and taken into consideration on whether to continue or discontinue.

Obvious drawbacks are :
- Limitation to using well water (tap water would be expensive)
- Wasting of water collumn fertilization because water is constantly changed
- Wasting of water
- Electrical bill for water pump
- More difficulty in maintaining lower temperature
- Water source dependent - bad water source equal to less satisfactionary result
Expected benefits :
- Good plant growth
- Fresh well water is rich in minerals and CO2 - less fert is needed
- Less pollution from bio load and fert/chemical residues
- Less algae from less accumulation of nitrates and phosphates
- No need of painful weekly WC
- Able to support considerable bio load without crashing or excessive filtration

There are several hundreads of gallon of water by the towers to supply the house water need (not only aquaria). So well pumps (2 wells) will be going on and off on a regular but not continous basis to help prolong longevity. These towers will also make pressure on the water regulator more constant.

If you observe point #4 on the filter compartment (overflow drain) is there to take care of excess water from the constant inflow of fresh water. It does it automatically and keeps water level constant too.
 
#13 · (Edited)
@everybody who loves to see it even bigger and deeper,
Regretably I'm not too interested in making the pond any deeper than 70-75 cm due to many reasons and I've had think it over and over. The deeper you make (just say more than 1,25 m), the more serious the equipment must be and that will translate to high end tech with high running cost. You will need very serious pumping power (something like 2/3 hp pump), extra powerful metal halides (probably 2-3 of those 1000W ones), freakin huge chiller (probably 2-3hp AC machine) and all kind of very serious power machines. Maintenance will also be a PITA not to mention the monthly power bill. Another factor is building cost. Keep in mind that this is a project done along with the whole house.. think of fund availability should I make something of monstorous (something like tom barr's creation scale) proportion. Much more serious bracings and concrete blocks will be needed and not to mention those special built glass planks which may cost you a leg.

For something that is built permanently right inside a living room, it will run for as long as the house stand which might be decades before the next renovation (that is except in the future minor modifications are made on the garden) unlike of a huge glass tank. Think of if more like an inwall tank with 1 side of glass, which is a permanent feature and requires someone who is willing to spend time or fund (to hire caretaker) to maintain it. So making it easy to maintain and low running cost is the key, more like your lawn garden which last indefinately.



1. House walls (painted)
2. Garden walls (textured, built on and planted)
3. Opening with clear polycarbonate roofing

One of the helping factor is free, quality sunlight. The space used to be a terrarium garden as I have already told you so. There is a huge opening by the top and if I'm right it measures around 2,5 x 2,75 meter. To keep things more humid and prevent pollution (rain water, dust) from coming in, this time I will add clear glass-like polycarbonate roofing (japan's SunLoid) which is usually used in greenhouses.



If we see this picture above which is taken at around 3pm, it is very clear that sunlight penetrate and falls to the lower part without any problem. The garden/pond area is directly hit by strong sunlight for several hours, that is around 11am to 2pm. The opening slightly face west and the garden recieve more light from late morning to early evening.

The fact that plants like pothos and creeping phylodendrons used to live very thickly from top to bottom is a proof that I have enough natural light for the pond but probably just by medium level when it reach the bottom. So the plan is to supplement using metal halide lamp, either a single 1000W fixture or twin 400W and hang it at certain height so it lights up the undergrowth/pond. Just 2-3 hours a day would be more than enough and it does not hurt bad on the bill (less than 2-3 hours worth of air conditioning for my bedroom). Even with careful plant management I can totally eliminate the need of MH, but it hurts on the beauty aspect (no viewing light and no cool ripples).

*just to let know that this is not a mere plan. This is a project in construction. Comments are valuable and inputs are highly welcome as consideration and vital addition.
 
#14 ·
Here you go, real progress pics taken several days ago

Second floor shot (taken freehand at 430 pm to illustrate light availability)


The cliff section is far from done but has taken a good shape to give an idea of the rough layout. First the team measure the working ground and dug as neccesary. Bottom plumbing was installed before they poured in concrete for fondation. Thick steel wires were shaped and laid as base shape forming skeleton along with guideline/basic brick works. Work progress from bottom up with earth/sand fillings by the empty inside.

Spots where water will drip from are reinforced for extra strength and water resistance (the grayish unfinished spots) and the outer skin is carved on (a process that reuires uncommon artistic hand). As you can notice there are several (I think 5 of them) whitish pipe appearing out of the cliff part. Those are spots where water will gush out and drip down to the pond. The debit of water of each outlet will be controlled remotely by valves to achieve maximum effect. The sticking pipe pole by the center is just there to cover pond drain from getting covered by debris (there is a draining hole at the bottom of the pond).

If you can see the woven steel which is surrounding the bottom and sides of the pond which will be sealed with 19mm glass.

(I'm verry sorry for no step by step pics for those of you who would like to see because I'm busy and the team works so fast that what you see here is done in only 5 days).

Here is a pic showing detail on how the realistic and natural texture of the cliff



It is porous just like those of real volcanic cliffs. Pockets are there for non water plants to fill in.
 
#15 ·
Looking really good and natural so far.I believe the wall isn't completed yet? Because the pipe is rather visible as of now.
 
#16 ·
@Y0uH0,
No, it is far from completion. I think the team will camuflage it or hide it some more.

@PinkRasbora,
There you have it and more to come as the work progress. No diving gear perhaps just smimming gear for me to go in every couple of months.

@organic sideburns,
Two tanks is already enough for me. Time will tell if I have time to keep them all, that is why this one is built as a very low maintenance system that can be left to run automatically for a month or more inbetween time consuming maintenance.

@JenTheplantGeek,
Everybody loves big tank project :) (but not the problems behind that :icon_roll )

@mr.gaboozlebag,
Plants probably non biotope setup.
Non aquatics: ephifits; bromeliads, orchids, ferns, creeping plants like pothos, philodendron, forest floor plants, etc.
Aquatics : low to medium light plants. No too much stem plants that require uprooting and trimming. Perhaps a bit of floating plants. Aquatic-terrestrial plants like pennywort, moss, anubias under and over water, etc.
Fish : no idea yet. You guys want to candidate something? :)
 
#18 ·
leave it to me to see faces in the rock cliffs you made...lolol How cool will bromiliads look on those pockes, with orchids and creeping Jenny draping down into the water? This is a grea project!
 
#19 ·
this is an awsome project! i would suggest frogs for the above water part.. but you said it would be all open so that probably isnt a great idea...

also the wall seems to just stop at one point, will it go up to the top or will pothos and creepers and vines just go up on their own to hide the obvious gap?.

for plants i would love to see a lot of bromiliads and things like you have listed. they will look really cool, for the underwater, why not go with some floaters as well like lillypads and red root floaters and things like that.

for inhabitants... do something that most people normally cant. something big. or a ton of small fish like german blue rams +angles or something. maybe altums?

you sure do like big tanks and projects!

- fish newb -

ohh and that backdrop is amazing! have you seen the ones people use for dart frogs? if not.. Dendroboard - Your source for dart frog information. maybe the people over there will have ideas for you as well?
 
#20 ·
@fresh_newbie,
Lol... it is time now for the game : find the ghost!

@Fish newb, (no wonder sometimes people will get you wrong for fresh_newbie and vice versa)
Frogs... like the looks especially dart frogs like green or azureus, but then with free opening and no enclosure to keep extra moisture in, I will be asking for trouble (drying or escaping frogs by the sofa).
The wall carving will not stop there, it is far from finished (work progress from bottom up). It will continue almost up to the roof opening.
Lilypads from the non high light families can grow well, but not the light loving lotus family found in open ponds.
Inhabitants...hohoho.. loads of fish? the big ones? Must resist... can not...
Even though a large number of tight schooling species will appear at best inside bigger enclosure...
*Dendroboard is one of the "poisoning" factor into giving the idea :icon_roll .
I guess "Great Stuff" foam is not usable when building this big. They do have some allergy building vivs using concrete due to not so compatible nature for delicate frogs.

Back to the garden..



Here we can see the floor is excavated for waste water plumbing, huge drain pipes will be installed along that hole. Excess water from plant watering drain, pond overflow, floor drain will be channeled into one huge control box, pre filtered and goes into the waste water plumbing. Without a pre filtered control box, you will only looking for trouble from clogged pipes because debris from backwash, soil, etc will accumulate. The box's job is to retain all bigger particles and make them sink, so the plumbing will be save from clogging while the box must require some cleaning every several months.

OK... perhaps some wood or woody vines dangling from the wall would look cool (as in XXL vivariums). We will see later in the project if wood work will be used.
 
#21 ·
How do you attach glass to concrete lining? (discussion revised)



The pic shows steel bars reinforcement as skeleton for concrete lining/frame. On top of that (and by the side) a piece of 19mm glass will sit and creating a viewing window which has no support by the top (like of those ADA tanks). There are two viewing windows which will meet at right angle (divided by small concrete pillar for strength), one measuring 150cm and another one 200cm, both glass will be around 55-60cm tall (depending on installation) from the concrete frame.

There are several ways I know of people attaching glass to concrete lining.

1. Stick it with silicone on one side only and let water pressure work to secure the glass. Easiest to install but somewhat less support at the top of the glass).


2. Stick it with silicone inbetween concrete frame. Much more difficult to install, require good hands and timing to install.


My contractor prefers option #2 due to the strength which will affect longevity and safety. However, I feel that they underestimate the pressure from water that will be there once the pond is filled. It is going to be a mere 55cm water height that the glass must hold off - the water height that will be held back by concrete portion need not be accounted for (even 12mm glass would be sufficient and very safe, not to mention thick 19mm) so they are pretty sure about installing just 5cm of the glass into the frame. I might sound paranoid but I'm not sure about that mere 5cm, they said that even in aquariums you silicone only less than 2 cm on the joint no matter how thick is your glass (say 12-15mm) so 5cm would be overkill and enough to hold off that kind of depth. Everybody knows that in this condition the point of greatest glass stress is at the bottom, right at the frame-glass joint.

Sooo... you experts right here must let me know whether the contractor will screw up and cause the glass to blow up (hopefully during test and not after I decor) or whether 5 cm will do fine and safe for years. Please help me with experience/theory and no better safe than sorry precaution (doing being safe better than sorry would simply insert the whole thing for 8 inches! :icon_eek: )
 
#23 ·
I've lived in apartments smaller than that tank.

Interesting issue with the installation of glass. Will the viewing windows be supported on 3 sides by concrete, or just the bottom? IF it's 3...I would go with option 1.
 
#25 ·
Every time I see a public aquarium set up something like this they used acrylic that was at least an inch thick. The 'groove' would cause a problem if the pane flexes, making it more susceptible to breaking. The non-groove installation allows the pane to flex without having a fulcrum/lever effect across the pane.

Someday I want to know what you do to be able to afford such giant setups. I'm just a little jealous. :redface:
 
#26 ·
@SCMurphy
Thanks for the reminder and information, I will let the team know to order a taller glass for me to set on a single pane style. The reason why they insist still on using groove style perhaps due to their experiences installing huge pane of window glass which never experience huge water pressure.
The single sided silicone style is what they use in even bigger tanks in my country (private tanks). The problem is it seems nobody give me a good reason/answer to why the set it up that way. Either are ignorant that they just copy from similar large tank without knowing the purpose OR they decided to play stupid and let see what bad thing happens to me if I set the glass wrongly.

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
Yes, a lot of work just for 700 gallon if you see it as a regular tank. This style of tank requires more work than regular 4 sided glass/acrilic tank. It is a sunken garden after all, with real plants all the way to the top and not to forget it is built integrated with the house right by the living room, so everything must be done correct. NO bigger displacement tank for me now, I can imagine the pain of maintenance....

@esarkipato,
It is 3 sided and now I decided to install it on a single pane (no groove).

@nornicle,
Thanks... perhaps you consider me as a dreamer. There is a limit to this building big stuff because I maintain the system personally (and limited free time will dictate it all).
 
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