First Father & Kids Tank - 20 High - 5/23/14 update! Ich Death recovery! - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 06:08 AM
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Did you cycle the tank? or use some cycling supplement? I would recommending tetra safestart or seachem stability asap and follow the dose on the bottle.

The biggest issue I could see is the sensitivity of shrimp to ammonia, with any amount its almost guaranteed death either over time, instantly, or on the next molt. Once that happens nitrites will spike with a dead body hiding somewhere.

I use TSS or stability regularly with no issues. Some would say CYCLE the tank....but that's clearly not an option at this point
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post #17 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 06:15 AM Thread Starter
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Yep it was fishless cycled with Dr.Tim one and only, it was ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 20 i think when i introduced the tetra. i think i found another problem - my aquaclear 30 was BLASTING so the poor tetra had no rest - they might have shown stress and blood vessels near the gills because they were popping veins trying to swim against a too strong current all day long. could be that over a water quality thing, since the shrimp seem just fine, and those lil fellas could rest on the ground away from current. well i turned that way down and that seems to have the tetra less frantic, and the plants beneath the flow unbowed.

Probably all of them put together - poisoned, tired and stressed from too strong a filter current flow.

Last edited by Jahn; 05-03-2013 at 08:17 AM. Reason: Combo
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post #18 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, amazing what one emergency 40% water change (and lowering the power of the filter flow) can do! Overnight the cloudiness on the bodies are gone and the red lines are too, and the tetra are zipping around totally normally. WHEW. I thought I'd lose all my tetra all at once!

And I spotted three shrimp this morn, doing their thing. They seem to not have been affected at all, and I'm not worried about the rest I can't see, since those were the smallest and have been hiding since minute one.

Water change came with Prime, and I put CO2 booster in this morning. A bit of Flourish too since I figured all that daily water changing probably took lots of nutrients with it too. Tossed the carbon filter last night, just one sponge filter and the biostones in there now.
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post #19 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Well this morning I saw that one tetra had a red looking string thing sticking out of its anus - Camallanus Worms is the worst case, I'm not taking any chances, probably that fish in all the stress and poor health is succumbing to that worm, so I'm ordering the dewormer flake III with Levamisole for all the fish from Angels Plus. Not sure if it's from the fish food I got from Win, or just a parasite in the tank of Emperor Tetra from Win, but either way I think I better toss that fish food and medicate these fish ASAP!

Now I'm thinking the listlessness and red streaks may be from worms? Which would mean they ALL have it? I'm paranoid! The medication can't get here fast enough!! Yeah those platys aren't coming into the tank until this thing is taken care of!

Last edited by Jahn; 05-03-2013 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Red streaks
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post #20 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-04-2013, 02:34 AM Thread Starter
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Well I couldn't wait. I swung by Petco to start the meds - mixed freeze dried bloodworms with this:

http://www.petco.com/product/105336/...-Dewormer.aspx

Once it was nice and absorbed (a tenth of a gram for a 20 gal tank plus whatever bloodworms the fish felt like sucking in) I left it alone for a few hours - now, I can't even tell which tetra was the one with the worm sticking out of it. I'll re-do the dose for 2 more days and that should get me to the flakes of the other meds I ordered for next week's medicating.
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post #21 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-04-2013, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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Checked on the fish today they all seem fine. Installed a CO2 drop checker last night and it was still blue, but I put some booster in anyhow. Skipping feeding in the morning, will give medicated bloodworms in the evening after a water test and maybe another water change. I wanted to gravel vac but everything is surrounded by flora- I did vac the marimo ball area tho.
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post #22 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-04-2013, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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The meds are definitely working as intended - snails dead due to meds in water (so i know it's in the water and effective), no more red worms, and fish are pooping out white shriveled up worms like crazy. Can't gravel vac those up since plants in the way, but I'll leave it to the water dosing to finish them off. Round two will be the medicated flakes with the lev-something coming later this week. I'll do one more dose of this dog med tomorrow.

On a happier note, new Ludwigia Repens x Arcuata and Hygro Difformis came today thanks to Doc7 - planted them and looking good. Took that chance to 'scape a bit, adding some more light gravel as a path to the pagoda, and eco-complete behind the rocks for more plant anchoring.

Edit - 2 hours after meds and the Tetra are definitely doing much better. All signs of red lines on the bodies are gone, they are expelling dead white worm chunks like nobody's business, and the shrimp are doing fine - heck i even saw 2 snails moving around. Tomorrow will be the last dog dose for sure.

Last edited by Jahn; 05-05-2013 at 12:22 AM. Reason: Worms
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post #23 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-05-2013, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
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Here are the pics - btw, strangely my son didn't seem bothered at all about the fact that the fish had worms, he thought it was cool that we were using bloodworms to soak up the meds, then the fish ate the bloodworms, then dead worms came out. Fascination with the macabre begins early, I guess! Oh, and the fluval pre-filter came, far more ninja than the big yellow filter i had on there before. Here are pics!



We found a big rock in the gravel, so we just gave the marimo ball a little hat:



forgive the bit of milkiness in the water, that's a combo of just putting in the new gravel and eco-complete, and probably a bit of bacterial bloom too until the cycle catches back up. I found one more of the bigger snails still moving about too, so i guess the dog meds didn't wipe them all out!



And here's a shrimp shot - that pagoda courtyard shows off how much green type detrius is probably covering the substrate too - but i can't vac it up without sucking up the plants! Well the shrimp sure seem to like eating that layer anyhow.

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post #24 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-05-2013, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a pic of a dead worm on the way out. Gross! Good news is all tetra still have a great appetite so I got them tided over until the levi flakes come, for round two.


Last edited by Jahn; 05-05-2013 at 11:59 PM. Reason: Image
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post #25 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-05-2013, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Whoa nitrates only 5ppm today? The water wisteria must be seriously sucking it up? No water change needed today!
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post #26 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-06-2013, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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Haven't seen any shrimp since the last dog med dose, but the fish are definitely benefiting - three tetra all expelling worms at the same time, it's a wormocalypse! I'm sure the shrimp are fine, they're just good hiders.

So that's 3 days straight with the fenben. The Levamisole flakes should be coming soon, I'll do a water change tomorrow to get rid of what worm bodies i can, and Charles just got back to me about the water column Levamisole, so by the end of the week i'll be able to do that 3-day treatment too. I'm going to attack this thing and wipe it all out! Big worms are tough on little tetra!

Last edited by Jahn; 05-06-2013 at 03:21 AM. Reason: Levamisole incoming
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post #27 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-06-2013, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Hahaha, I just have to laugh - getting this tank up to speed is a never ending thing! I think I left too many uneaten medicated bloodworms in the tank - I scooped up all the floaters but I'm sure some drifted down and are hiding. Result? Heterotroph buffet! Yep, milky water this morning. I'm going to skip feedings until the Levamisole flakes come anyhow - that should cut down on uneaten food, should give the Tetra time to expel pure worm, and starve those Heterotrophs a bit. I'll gravel vac tonight too, to get what i can of uneaten food and expelled worm.

Also, the CO2 checker has been on blue since day one, my son pointed out. The CO2 booster doesn't seem to make that budge to green. Good news is that the algae seems to be pretty much dead. The bad news is that with low light too, I'm worried that the flora will soon follow unless I get more CO2 in there. Maybe it's time to think a bit high tech, invest in a paintball setup?
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post #28 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-07-2013, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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Well I eschewed paintball and went with the full size tank, 5lb co2 with bettatail regulator+. Once it's all set up ill take a pic!
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post #29 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-07-2013, 02:39 PM
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hey more snacks for the shrimp :P

also ohh yeah! wisteria SUCKS up nitrates like no other! That and floating plants just gobble it up (sometimes i have to fight with the wisteria to not take all of it from the other plants!) :P

looks cute!
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post #30 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-07-2013, 02:54 PM
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CO2 liquids won't change your drop checker in my experience. only actual CO2 injection (bubbles) will effect the drop checker. Good call on the 5# tank. I can only use a paintball due to space constraints, and it's getting to be a bit of a PITA.
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