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post #12 of (permalink) Old 11-07-2010, 02:47 PM
ukamikazu
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordalphus View Post
I'm sorry, but does ADA have a history of selling useless items? I think they have no reason to mislead anyone with snake oil... You really think they're that desperate for money?
Occasionally,yes. They are a business and money is any businesses' life blood but they are not malicious. I have no doubt that they honestly believe in what they are saying on that old piece of ad copy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mordalphus View Post
I've never been unsatisfied with an ADA product, have you?
That is neither here nor there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordalphus View Post
ADA makes no reference to tourmaline as an electrowhatchamacallit, and as far as the critics are concerned, who was the first person to say "hey, I bet our plants would like some iron"?
You're confusing two separate issues for some purpose I cannot divine. They have made a claim on an older ad about the magical properties of tourmaline. This has been since rescinded in newer marketing materials, but in the US we still have access to old packaging that makes this claim.

Iron as a micronutrient has been scientifically established for some time. Again, this is neither here nor there as it pertains to evaluating the claims about ground up tourmaline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordalphus View Post
Here's some real information:

It's a complex silicate, containing a plethora of minerals. Including calcium, sodium, potassium, lithium, magnesium, iron, manganese, zinc, aluminum, chromium, etc etc etc.

Could this 'gem', also perhaps have some ACTUAL FUNCTIONAL use? I've got to say... most likely! As far as it being electroactive, it probably is, it contains the same minerals that a lithium battery and in some cases alkaline battery. Does the electrical aspect of the gem have any awesome plant growing powers? nah, but it seems to be packed with micro nutrients.
Yes, as a decorative stone and that's it, really. Your analysis of the chemical composition of tourmaline is correct but provides us nothing. The only assumption I can make is that somehow you are under the impression that these elements will magically leave the gem and do something beneficial to its surroundings. This is not possible for a number of reasons, the main being that all the atoms are bound rather tightly together with their valence shells being fully satisifed by the covalent bonds prevalent in the vast majority of gemstones. Again, I can only presume this is what you meant. Batteries work on very different principles using different compounds to generate current that are well understood by most, please see this article for a better understanding of the electrochemistry of a battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordalphus View Post
Come on guys, why so critical?
...Because you should be. Consider googling the terms "critical thought" and "pyrrhonian skepticism" These are very helpful tools for cutting through these kinds of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordalphus View Post
I mean, I haven't ever used it, but I've looked into using it! I'm assuming none of you have used it either.
Remember what they say about assumptions? I have used it and it does what it says, minus the perceived magical properties of the ground up semi-precious gemstone tourmaline which according to the laws of physics cannot affect water in said manner as per the pseudoscientific claims quoted in the parent post. Outside of that, it's great for introducing extra micronutrients under your Power Sand and introducing soil bacteria as many of us already know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordalphus View Post
Just because you didn't think to use it first, doesn't mean it might not have a use.
I really have no idea where you mistakenly picked up on this. It almost comes off as both petulant and condescending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordalphus View Post
Whatever happened to keeping an open mind?
I have a very open mind, not just so open that it falls out. It is New Age cranks, quacksalvers, conspiracy theorists and fanboys that tend to be closed minded and do not want to critically examine the statements of a claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. A product that claims to alter the basic physical nature of water would be considered extraordinary and if found to be true, testable and reproducible would shake physics and chemistry to their very core as we understand those two sciences today. But it hasn't and it won't because it is not true, not testable, not falsifiable nor reproducible.

I hope my response is as educational for you as it was cathartic for me.

"You are much better off with no numbers than meaningless ones. The minute you believe numbers uncritically, that is, without understanding how they're calculated and how well they measure whatever they're supposed to measure, you will generate a breed of employee who will produce numbers and not results. Your data-processing system will then serve not to describe reality but to lie about it."

-Micheal S. Montalbano
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