what fertilizer do i need? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 03:15 AM Thread Starter
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what fertilizer do i need?

I have a 46 gallon tank I just set up im ordering these plants for it.

Lighting will be a finnex ray 2, and maybe a t8 aqua glo bulb

Substrate is seachem eco complete and fluorite.

No c02

Here are my plants

water sprite
wisteria
chilensis
anacharis
telanthera rosfolia
money wort
amazon sword
red tiger lotus
rotala indica
creeping Charlie
baby tears
cryptocoryne pontenderiifolia
dwarf hairgrass

I'm knew to this I don't really know much about fertilizers. what fertilizer('s) will I need? Will seachem flourish be it?
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 03:46 AM
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You will have about 50 PAR lighting, or medium light, so you really should use CO2 as well as fertilizing. If you used a Fugeray instead of a RayII you would have 35 PAR lighting, which is low enough that you could get by with just Excel instead of CO2. Then you will need to dose all of the basic nutrients plants need - neither of the substrate materials you will use contain any significant nutrients that are available to the plants. So, read _Dosing Regimes_ Then get the fertilizer chemicals that are recommended in the tables in the first post - you can buy them from http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...825&highlight= or one of several other internet stores. I suggest you dose about half of the dosages shown in the table, because of the low light.

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 04:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
You will have about 50 PAR lighting, or medium light, so you really should use CO2 as well as fertilizing. If you used a Fugeray instead of a RayII you would have 35 PAR lighting, which is low enough that you could get by with just Excel instead of CO2. Then you will need to dose all of the basic nutrients plants need - neither of the substrate materials you will use contain any significant nutrients that are available to the plants. So, read _Dosing Regimes_ Then get the fertilizer chemicals that are recommended in the tables in the first post - you can buy them from http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...825&highlight= or one of several other internet stores. I suggest you dose about half of the dosages shown in the table, because of the low light.
So if I got:
Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)- $3/lb
Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)- $5/lb
GH Booster- Contains 3:3:1(K2SO4:CaSO4:MgSO4)- $6/lb
So if I dosed half of what it said for 40-60 gallon tanks I would be set and wouldn't need to had anything else to the tank?
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 05:43 AM
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You still need a source of trace elements. You can buy Plantex CSM+B from that same person, use Flourish Comprehensive, buy Miller Microplex from Greenleaf Aquarium http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquari...microplex.html or some other equally good trace element mix.

And, don't forget, you will get the best results if you use Seachem Excel as a carbon supplement. Dose it per the manufacturer's directions.

Hoppy
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Wow that is confusing haha.
So there are five total things I should be dosing the water with. And these help take the place of not having a c02 system?

Kn03
Kh2p04
Gh booster
Miller microplex
Seachem excel

So I get those and dose all half the prescribed dosage weekly (with an exception to excel) I should be set?

Are all of these absolutely necessary or is it for the plants to really thrive
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian14 View Post
Wow that is confusing haha.
So there are five total things I should be dosing the water with. And these help take the place of not having a c02 system?

Kn03
Kh2p04
Gh booster
Miller microplex
Seachem excel

So I get those and dose all half the prescribed dosage weekly (with an exception to excel) I should be set?

Are all of these absolutely necessary or is it for the plants to really thrive
Seachem Excel acts as a carbon supplement, but is not really a true CO2 replacement (it is not as effective as injecting CO2).

And yes, the nutrients are required for plant growth. Without them, algae will likely take over, and your plants will generally not look healthy.

Anthony

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 02:53 PM
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I have a Wisteria that is a problem child. If you intend to use one, it was suggested to me that I NOT use the MgSO4 as "it can interfere with a plant's ability to use both K and Ca so I'd recommend you don't add it at this point in time." But rather only if/when you find
that it is lacking in your tank. This was only if you dose it too much that it can interfere.
It was suggested that K2SO4 be used in it's place. I am NOT any kind of plant expert. This was related to me because of a Wisteria
problem, by another member here. They said that the MgSO4 raises the Ph and should not be added unless the Gh was found to
be lacking after your fert schedule had been kept for a couple/few weeks.
All critique of any/all of this is welcomed...
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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What kind of fert does MgS04 fall under in the five that I listed in my last post?

Also are these safe with fish?

Last edited by Darkblade48; 12-18-2013 at 12:15 AM. Reason: Back to back posts
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
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What kind of fert does MgS04 fall under in the five that I listed in my last post?
Gh booster: This (the K2SO4)is an alternate to the MgSO4. The Potassium is represented by the "K" in these names of the fert components.
The Potassium is something which the Wisteria uses very much of. Where as other ingredients have but one part of, such as KNO4, the "2" in the
K2SO4 denotes a higher level of it in this compound. It is suggested by some that you check your Gh level once your tank has had a regular
dosing schedule for a while to see if any Gh booster is actually needed. In all fairness I will also say that I am passing on info that I have received
from "others" on here which pertain to this situation as opposed to relating info that is my personal experience. That is why I invited critique of it
by others here. Glad you asked this BTW.

Last edited by Raymond S.; 12-17-2013 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Additional info:
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-18-2013, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
Gh booster: This (the K2SO4)is an alternate to the MgSO4. The Potassium is represented by the "K" in these names of the fert components.
The Potassium is something which the Wisteria uses very much of. Where as other ingredients have but one part of, such as KNO4, the "2" in the
K2SO4 denotes a higher level of it in this compound. It is suggested by some that you check your Gh level once your tank has had a regular
dosing schedule for a while to see if any Gh booster is actually needed. In all fairness I will also say that I am passing on info that I have received
from "others" on here which pertain to this situation as opposed to relating info that is my personal experience. That is why I invited critique of it
by others here. Glad you asked this BTW.
Just to expand on this and to make some corrections.

GH booster is usually comprised of potassium, magnesium and calcium sulfates.

KNO4 does not exist, perhaps you mean KNO3

Anthony

A Primer to Pressurized CO2 and A Primer to Planted Tanks
Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-18-2013, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkblade48 View Post
Just to expand on this and to make some corrections.

GH booster is usually comprised of potassium, magnesium and calcium sulfates.

KNO4 does not exist, perhaps you mean KNO3
And that is just why I invited critique/thank you.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-18-2013, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
I have a Wisteria that is a problem child. If you intend to use one, it was suggested to me that I NOT use the MgSO4 as "it can interfere with a plant's ability to use both K and Ca so I'd recommend you don't add it at this point in time." But rather only if/when you find
that it is lacking in your tank. This was only if you dose it too much that it can interfere.
It was suggested that K2SO4 be used in it's place. I am NOT any kind of plant expert. This was related to me because of a Wisteria
problem, by another member here. They said that the MgSO4 raises the Ph and should not be added unless the Gh was found to
be lacking after your fert schedule had been kept for a couple/few weeks.
All critique of any/all of this is welcomed...
MgSO4 does not raise or lower the pH. If your water company water quality report shows some magnesium in the water, at least 1/10 the concentration of calcium in the water, you probably won't need to dose any magnesium (MgSO4) But, dosing a little should not adversely affect any of the plants.

Hoppy
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-18-2013, 01:55 PM
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And you can tell when someone doesn't proof read what they typed can't you ?
Should have read:" They said that the MgSO4 raises the Gh and should not be added unless the Gh was found to be lacking..."
Only seems to make sense to me to NOT dose till you checked what the Gh was to begin/w as that other person suggested.
And since I'm inexperienced at dosing these ferts it would be wise of me to find out exactly what "dosing a little" was as
I have no idea as to just how much "a little" is and just what it takes to over do it.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-18-2013, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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when dosing these ferts am I not supposed to have any carbon whatsoever in the filter? I have eheim 2215 with no carbon, but a HOB Penguin and I think theres a little carbon in each filter pouch
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-18-2013, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian14 View Post
when dosing these ferts am I not supposed to have any carbon whatsoever in the filter? I have eheim 2215 with no carbon, but a HOB Penguin and I think theres a little carbon in each filter pouch
I don't think it has anything to do with the kind of filter or filter media you have. One person on here I heard say they cut the top of that pack and just dump out the carbon but still use it for a place for the BB to live in. Some medications tell you to remove it before using that medication. I have never read of removing the carbon when you add ferts. I'd prefer you wait and see what other say on that one.
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